Commercial Vs Private insurance

MackDeToaster

A week ago I got rid of my car and bought an Opel Combo 1.3 diesel car/van as it's more practical for me. Now, this was registered as commercial, so to insure it initially I had to take out commercial insurance.

However I've just reregistered and taxed it as private vehicle and gone to my insurers (FBD) to change the insurance to private, and they've refused to do so, saying to them it's still a commercial vehicle.

My question is are they entitled to do this, and has the distinction between private/commercial insurance got to do with the actual vehicle itself, or the actual usage the vehicle is put to ? I had thought it was the latter, and thus I should be under private insurance ??

Notwithstanding the fact that I'm sure there are cars out there that have just two seats (Westfields, Cappucinos, Smart cars etc) this doesn't make much sense to me, plus it also means I'm not covered to drive other cars third party, don't have any breakdown cover, and am paying a higher premium.

Skuxx

Afaik you could cancel your insurance if your not happy and they have to reimburse you, then just go with someone else!

MackDeToaster

alan1990 wrote: »

Afaik you could cancel your insurance if your not happy and they have to reimburse you, then just go with someone else!

Oh yes I'm aware of this, but I'm just trying to figure out what exactly the distinction between the two types of insurance is

scotchy

Sorry op for going off topic. But how do you go about reregistering it to private?

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MackDeToaster

scotchy wrote: »

Sorry op for going off topic. But how do you go about reregistering it to private?
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I just went into the local motortax office to tax it and filled out a yellow form there, I can't remember the number but it was for a change in particulars. It was a very quick job, just filled in the vehicle reg etc, and there was a section for change of details where I ticked the change to "Private" vehicle box.

Then I just paid up the roadtax for a year and got a disk immediately - the girl kept the registration cert and said a new one would be out in five days but it arrived in two.

It was far, far easier than I had expected as when I had insured it the muppet in the office in FBD had told me that you can't reregister a commercial vehicle as private !

techman

OP, there are very few companies that will insure a commercial van privately. I know because I have a car derived van for the past few years.

I am with Quinn Direct. Found them to have the lowest premium.

Many companies won't even quote when you tell them I want to insure it privately. I tax the van privately as well. Makes no difference. The vehicle is classed as a commercial.

It's just the same with tolls. Even though my vehicle is taxed and insured privately and is never used for commercial purposes, I have to pay a higher toll on the M6, the same as all commercial vans would pay.

techman

techman wrote: »

It's just the same with tolls. Even though my vehicle is taxed and insured privately and is never used for commercial purposes, I have to pay a higher toll on the M6, the same as all commercial vans would pay.

If its a car van can you not just use the car lane and through in the fee for a car into the coin basket.

This two faced crap really gets to me, they wont allow people to get commercial tax as they are not using their vans "commercially" yet they charge the higher rate at tolls. Gangsters.

MackDeToaster

techman wrote: »

OP, there are very few companies that will insure a commercial van privately. I know because I have a car derived van for the past few years.

I am with Quinn Direct. Found them to have the lowest premium.

Many companies won't even quote when you tell them I want to insure it privately. I tax the van privately as well. Makes no difference. The vehicle is classed as a commercial.

It's just the same with tolls. Even though my vehicle is taxed and insured privately and is never used for commercial purposes, I have to pay a higher toll on the M6, the same as all commercial vans would pay.

Ah that's interesting, thanks ! So basically with insurance they're just making it up in order to charge as much as they can. And it's the same with tolls.

I had actually been looking forward to trying out the tolls and seeing what they say in the huts so I guess I'm just going to be sitting at the barrier for a long, long time as I'll refuse to pay commerical rates on a vehicle which is registered, taxed and is being used for private use only. Should be fun

scotchy

Sorry OP. Anothr silly question. Do you have to get your van NCTd now instead of DOEd?


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MackDeToaster

scotchy wrote: »

Sorry OP. Anothr silly question. Do you have to get your van NCTd now instead of DOEd?
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It's not silly at all as I didn't know myself. I asked the lady in the motor-tax office about it and she said I should be fine running with a DOE cert and when that expires I should get notification to do an NCT, and if not just apply for it then myself.

techman

A car derived van that is taxed privately does not have to do an NCT or DOE.

As regards the tolls, on the M4 toll I have to pay the 'commercial toll' regardless of whether I use the Exact Coins lane or the Cashier lane.

The toll is based on the vehicle's classification i.e. commercial and not its use.

oldyouth

Insurance Companies will not want to offer a private insurance contract on a commercially designed vehicle because the wording for passenger cover is wider than on a commercial vehicle contract, which restricts cover to persons provided with a fixed seat

vetstu

I have an Auris van insured privately with Quinn.When I was getting the quote I gave them the reg and all went grand till the end when he said Auris car, I said its a van and when he put it through the quote was only a euro or two more. No bother insuring it privately. That was before the regulator took over though so might be a different story now.
As for the tolls, just drive through the basket lane and throw in the car amount.Works for the landcruiser too.:)

ntpm

techman wrote: »

A car derived van that is taxed privately does not have to do an NCT or DOE.

As regards the tolls, on the M4 toll I have to pay the 'commercial toll' regardless of whether I use the Exact Coins lane or the Cashier lane.

The toll is based on the vehicle's classification i.e. commercial and not its use.

If you change a vehicle Tax clasification/ details from Goods Only to Private Use ( using the yellow form) the DOE is invalid and you will need to have a NCT. It proves the Road Worthiness of the vehicle. The tax office sometimes let you tax the vehicle for 3 months without an NCT but strictly speaking shouldn't have.... this was because of the back log in NCT centres and there is still a loop hole/ grey area as the Taxing system does not require a NCT number to be entered.

With regards the the Toll. You should show them the Tax disk that proves the vehicle is no longer a goods vehicle and you are paying private tax.
I have the opposite problem. I also own a Jeep which has Private tax ( has rear seats) and sometimes the toll attendent tries to charge me Commerical Goods rate. I then have to explain that it's a Private vehicle.

Our man in Havana

A car derived van that is taxed privately does not have to do an NCT or DOE.

A handy loophole that has existed for years.

NCT won't want to know once they hear it is a van.

stylers

given the whole problem/grey area with "is it an NCT or DOE for a privately taxed van", is it safe enough to assume that if you DOE it, you have proved the road worthiness of the vehicle (if anything should arise) ??. On the toll charges, I think even if you use the exact change/basket lane, it will still look for the commercial rate toll as they are using number plate recognition cameras now..

Our man in Havana

This is certainly the case with the M7 toll.

MackDeToaster

stylers wrote: »

given the whole problem/grey area with "is it an NCT or DOE for a privately taxed van", is it safe enough to assume that if you DOE it, you have proved the road worthiness of the vehicle (if anything should arise) ??. On the toll charges, I think even if you use the exact change/basket lane, it will still look for the commercial rate toll as they are using number plate recognition cameras now..

Won't the database just show that my car/van is registered and taxed as a private vehicle? It's an Opel Combo 1.3 btw.

R.O.R

MackDeToaster wrote: »

Won't the database just show that my car/van is registered and taxed as a private vehicle? It's an Opel Combo 1.3 btw.

It's an Opel Combo. It could be taxed as a pink cow, but it aint going to change the undeniable fact it's a van.

mikehunts

MackDeToaster wrote: »

Won't the database just show that my car/van is registered and taxed as a private vehicle? It's an Opel Combo 1.3 btw.

Had to go through tolls there at enfield today on the way up the exact change charged me 2.70 on the way back 4.10 i have a small car van and it is taxed privately. Private tax

Our man in Havana

Commercial tax?

techman

Looking at the site for Eurolink M4, the toll is based on the classification of the vehicle and not its use.

See here - "whether used in the course of trade or otherwise".

My car van is privately taxed and I don't think I should have to pay the toll of €4.10

Sometimes, if I use the Exact Coins lane, I only have to pay the car toll of €2.70

But it looks like from reading the Eurolink M4 website, they can charge the commercial toll of €4.10