Your Favourite DART - (or not)

steamengine

Took a short trip earlier today from Howth Jct. to Howth return. The down dart was an 8500 class and the up an 8100. My preference is the 8100 as the seem to be roomier from a seating point of view (see interior shot below). Also they seem to be gradually taking on a 'vintage' appearance externally which is pleasing to the eye.

Running every 15 mins approx. is a vast improvement to the service of yesteryear i.e. before the arrival of the DART service. Loads of travellers Howth bound too, mostly tourists.

mack81

defo the 8100. what a beauty.

lord lucan

8100's ftw. The original and still the best. Lovely interiors,roomy and a better ride quality than the 8500's.:)

T Corolla

I love all dart equally

foggy_lad

I hate those darts with the miserably short seats presumably to stop people sleeping on them?

Stonewolf

I love all darts that go near my apartment ...

Run_to_da_hills

8100 by far, basic, comfortable, reliable, no aircon hassles, also looks smarter, next are the Toyku 8500 smooth roofs, (Option of opening windows) then Toyku 8500 lumpy roofs (Sealed non opening windows) and least favourite are the 8200 GEC Alsthoms.

shamwari

8100 by a mile. Arguably the best kit ever bought by IE.

steamengine

foggy_lad wrote: »

I hate those darts with the miserably short seats presumably to stop people sleeping on them?

.......and if somebody does fall asleep in the facing seats on the 8500 class, they will most likely headbutt the passenger opposite. Leg room is not ideal at all ! A little more thought could have sorted that one out.

Looks like the original 8100's are the biz though.

Cookie_Monster

8520 class

Run_to_da_hills

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

8520 class

They are poxy when the AC system breaks down. :eek:

You cannot open windows.

dowlingm

T Corolla wrote: »

I love all dart equally

Even the Alstoms/8200s?

Cookie_Monster

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They are poxy when the AC system breaks down. :eek:

You cannot open windows.

yeah maybe so but the look much "righter" than the rest, I think cos they're square and simple :)

Judgement Day

The original DART units by a country mile! Quality, German built equipment not junk from the Far East paid for by EU funds!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Transportuser09

Definetly the 8100s...although it's been so long since I was on a 8200 I can't really remember what they were like!

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

The original DART units by a country mile! Quality, German built equipment not junk from the Far East paid for by EU funds!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

German engineering is renowned on a lot of fronts, but in the last 4 decades or so a majority of engineering based manufacturing has shifted East anyway for economic reasons. It possibly started with the motor industry, followed on by ship building, recently electronic manufacturing and now practically goddam everything else engineering. This is the reason people can purchase all sorts of power tools etc etc etc at very low prices compared to 10, 20 years ago.

GTE

Have they changed a component of the 8100 series (they are the originals yes? Getting used to the classes).

I remember I loved the noise the train made, certain electrical components or motors. When I was on the darts recently it seems they have replaced something which now makes a high pitched noise which I hate.

Oh, the good old days

Judgement Day

steamengine wrote: »

German engineering is renowned on a lot of fronts, but in the last 4 decades or so a majority of engineering based manufacturing has shifted East anyway for economic reasons. It possibly started with the motor industry, followed on by ship building, recently electronic manufacturing and now practically goddam everything else engineering. This is the reason people can purchase all sorts of power tools etc etc etc at very low prices compared to 10, 20 years ago.

Agreed but this has not been helped by a Lemming like approach by the West which allows valuable contracts such as the 22000s to go to the Far East rather than Western Europe - why on earth should our taxes be used to subsidise their industries? There is no answer to that save that the lunatics are now running the asylum. It will all eventually unravel when the West make nothing at all, has no smart economy (that will all move East too) and consequently no money to buy cheap Eastern products.

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

Agreed but this has not been helped by a Lemming like approach by the West which allows valuable contracts such as the 22000s to go to the Far East rather than Western Europe - why on earth should our taxes be used to subsidise their industries? There is no answer to that save that the lunatics are now running the asylum. It will all eventually unravel when the West make nothing at all, has no smart economy (that will all move East too) and consequently no money to buy cheap Eastern products.

Yes totally agree with you, the Americans in recent years have cut their own throats with electronic manufacturing being shifted East all in an effort to drive costs down to gain the competitive edge. That's only one of many examples. Again why Obama is trying to kickstart the Auto industry over there. The chickens have come home to roost in the US.

The problem is widespread and not confined to IR by any means. The end result is that all engineering manufacturing in Europe is grinding to a halt. Just noticed a programme recently showing the manufacture of wind turbines in China, so much for the new green economy giving that type of employment here. The motive is simple - Profit !!!

Judgement Day

It's worse than profit, it is blind stupidtiy and greed. It's the same with retailing in this country where many shops are stacked high with cheaply priced, poor quality Chinese goods not because that's what the customer wants but because that's what the greedy retailer can make the most profit on.

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

It's worse than profit, it is blind stupidtiy and greed. It's the same with retailing in this country where many shops are stacked high with cheaply priced, poor quality Chinese goods not because that's what the customer wants but because that's what the greedy retailer can make the most profit on.

Well, thats where EU regulation could play a part. I personally would purchase a Bosch power tool made in Germany and pay the price to keep Hans in a job and equally he could afford come over here on holiday, and hire a Shannon cruiser. Thats more or less what we have to get back to. Look at the German manufactured all welded boiler fitted to the Tornado steam loco. Not one leak when they pressurised it up and when the lowered it on to the frame not one hole was out of alignment. Ditto the 8100's -back on topic - German engineering - pure class

goingnowhere

Judgement Day wrote: »

The original DART units by a country mile! Quality, German built equipment not junk from the Far East paid for by EU funds!!!!!!!:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Really shows how little you know. The original DART may have been assembled in Germany but the entire electric system on board was out of factory in the UK and gave no end of trouble for the first few years. The Japanese sets are more reliable.

The far east got the orders as no European manufacturer could deliver a working train on time to meet the contract targets. That said beyond the bogies and bodyshell, nearly everything on an ICR is from Europe, engine, gearbox, seats, doors, brakes...

The ICR fleet was not funded by EU funds, the 29k fleet sets 1-20 were the last to get some EU money. The EU generally don't fund trains, they fund infrastructure. The NRA indirectly contributed close on 100 million to IE's train budget in the last decade due to road underspends, that paid for 29k sets 21-29 and 33 ICR coaches.

Oliver1985

Steamengine is thanking everyone who posts in this thread I might aswell get me another thumbs up :D:D

Judgement Day

goingnowhere wrote: »

Really shows how little you know. The original DART may have been assembled in Germany but the entire electric system on board was out of factory in the UK and gave no end of trouble for the first few years. The Japanese sets are more reliable.

The far east got the orders as no European manufacturer could deliver a working train on time to meet the contract targets. That said beyond the bogies and bodyshell, nearly everything on an ICR is from Europe, engine, gearbox, seats, doors, brakes...

The ICR fleet was not funded by EU funds, the 29k fleet sets 1-20 were the last to get some EU money. The EU generally don't fund trains, they fund infrastructure. The NRA indirectly contributed close on 100 million to IE's train budget in the last decade due to road underspends, that paid for 29k sets 21-29 and 33 ICR coaches.

Great an expert at last! Perhaps you could back up your statements with some links? I don't recall the original DART sets giving much trouble? I don't claim any great knowledge of the ingredients that make up the Mk I DART units but believe me - I will research and post back here with facts.

Judgement Day

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Steamengine is thanking everyone who posts in this thread I might aswell get me another thumbs up :D:D

He must be after your job here (except when it one of my posts).

steamengine

Oliver1985 wrote: »

Steamengine is thanking everyone who posts in this thread I might aswell get me another thumbs up :D:D

It seems that most posters appreciate the 8100 class in particular, maybe its time to consider forming a 'DART Train Society', JD would be a front runner for 'chairman' !

Captain Chaos

The 8520s are the best now imo. Very smooth ride, good leg room and decent seats compared to the 8500s and 8510s which have the leg room for a 5 year old and seats that break you back with the shape of them.

The refurb 8100s are just not the same anymore. They lost the old electrical motor whine that I loved. The doors take an age to open and close now and the noise of the bleeber does my head in.

The 8200s should be pushed in the Tolka in an "accident".

Carawaystick

Personally, I like the darts that leave and arrive on time....
By on time I mean during the minute IÉ say on their timetables they will, not the 9:59 mins late that IÉ say is on time.

patrickbrophy18

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Definetly the 8100s...although it's been so long since I was on a 8200 I can't really remember what they were like!

Let me refresh your memory! Rock hard seats, funky smell in the cabin and having a back ache sitting down on them.

Judgement Day

A sad pic from my misspent days as a railway enthusiast. The unloading of the first DART units at the North Wall on St.Valentine's Day 1983. I was one of about three enthusiasts who were there to witness the historic event. I don't know what else was being unloaded that day but the army had a presence on the quayside.

nompere

patrickbrophy18 wrote: »

Let me refresh your memory! Rock hard seats, funky smell in the cabin and having a back ache sitting down on them.

They had at least one big advantage over all the other types, though. One of my pet hates (there are many!) is the person, usually a woman, but not always, who puts a bag on the seat next to the window and then sits down beside it. This reduces the space for the person who ends up beside them.

The nature of those hard bucket seats was that you had to sit into them and trying to spread out meant ending up in a very uncomfortable position.

murphaph

steamengine wrote: »

Well, thats where EU regulation could play a part. I personally would purchase a Bosch power tool made in Germany and pay the price to keep Hans in a job and equally he could afford come over here on holiday, and hire a Shannon cruiser. Thats more or less what we have to get back to. Look at the German manufactured all welded boiler fitted to the Tornado steam loco. Not one leak when they pressurised it up and when the lowered it on to the frame not one hole was out of alignment. Ditto the 8100's -back on topic - German engineering - pure class

German engineering is pure class, but sadly buying a Bosch power tool will likely only keep Hans the designer in a job. Hans on the production line lost his job to the East a long while ago. People in the west do need to look more closely at where their stuff comes from and I think we're all guilty of buying cheap at times.

westtip

I love an on time Dart that doesn't terminate at Bray due to problems on the line around Bray head (if I am on the east coast I need to travel to Greystones) As for the classification of the rolling stock I couldn't give a toopenny fook.

But I do love the view from the DART as you come around from Dalkey to Killiney, and i still look out the window to watch the wild life on the cliffs when going around Bray head.

Judgement Day

westtip wrote: »

I love an on time Dart that doesn't terminate at Bray due to problems on the line around Bray head (if I am on the east coast I need to travel to Greystones) As for the classification of the rolling stock I couldn't give a toopenny fook.

But I do love the view from the DART as you come around from Dalkey to Killiney, and i still look out the window to watch the wild life on the cliffs when going around Bray head.

Sometimes compared to the "The Bay of Naples" as is Douglas Bay on the Isle of Man. Here is a classic GSR poster view for you westtip - just don't get any ideas about turning it into a cycleway.


http://www.gallery29.ie

steamengine

westtip wrote: »

I love an on time Dart that doesn't terminate at Bray due to problems on the line around Bray head (if I am on the east coast I need to travel to Greystones) As for the classification of the rolling stock I couldn't give a toopenny fook.

But I do love the view from the DART as you come around from Dalkey to Killiney, and i still look out the window to watch the wild life on the cliffs when going around Bray head.

This everyday commuter rail route is considered to be one of the most scenic in either Britain or Ireland. The route around and through Bray head, via the four main tunnels, was designed and engineered by Isambard Kingdom Brunel - one of the most famous engineers of all time. His life story is well worth a read.
(Brunel, the man who built the world - Steven Brindle author : ISBN 0-297-84408-3)

Cookie_Monster

steamengine wrote: »

This everyday commuter rail route is considered to be one of the most scenic in either Britain or Ireland. The route around and through Bray head, via the four main tunnels, was designed and engineered by Isambard Kingdom Brunel - one of the most famous engineers of all time. His life story is well worth a read.
(Brunel, the man who built the world - Steven Brindle author : ISBN 0-297-84408-3)

and ironically one of his greatest failures. The line should have gone through where Kilruddery house is, not along the coast. It's been re-aligned how many time now, 3?

Notwithstanding that the man was a genius and the list of stuff he did is amazing.

The whole line south of Dalkey to Wicklow is great viewing.

steamengine

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

and ironically one of his greatest failures. The line should have gone through where Kilruddery house is, not along the coast. It's been re-aligned how many time now, 3?

Notwithstanding that the man was a genius and the list of stuff he did is amazing.

The whole line south of Dalkey to Wicklow is great viewing.

Yes, the then Earl of Meath wouldn't permit the line through his lands thus the present route, but why was it a failure ? - he wasn't responsible for subsequent coastal erosion and in keeping with his other achievements the resulting route was quite spectacular ! Part of his character was to push the limits alright. A genius without doubt !

The route has the Wow factor alright !

Cookie_Monster

steamengine wrote: »

Yes, the then Earl of Meath wouldn't permit the line through his lands thus the present route, but why was it a failure ? - he wasn't responsible for subsequent coastal erosion and in keeping with his other achievements the resulting route was quite spectacular ! Part of his character was to push the limits alright. A genius without doubt !

The route has the Wow factor alright !

but as an engineer he should have seen it and been able to factor it in. There was plans to move it inland before too weren't there (50-70's sometime I think, but don't know realistic they were). But at least we ended up with a great line. (rather than a more practical one which would have been much easier to double track;))

There are some great photos around showing the current line and the abandoned tunnels on the seaward side of it.
EDIT: you can also see remnants of r the old alignment behind Bayview at Killiney Beach

steamengine

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

but as an engineer he should have seen it and been able to factor it in. There was plans to move it inland before too weren't there (50-70's sometime I think, but don't know realistic they were). But at least we ended up with a great line. (rather than a more practical one which would have been much easier to double track;))

There are some great photos around showing the current line and the abandoned tunnels on the seaward side of it.
EDIT: you can also see remnants of r the old alignment behind Bayview at Killiney Beach

I suppose one could say he liked living on the edge!



Liked his cigars - lots of

Cookie_Monster

I was going to post that, great photo.

either he is very small or those chains are feckin huge:pac::pac:

steamengine

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I was going to post that, great photo.

either he is very small or those chains are feckin huge:pac::pac:

Yes, he was just over 5 feet tall and that is the huge ss 'Great Eastern' anchor chain.

bigbadbear

Is there any pics showing the different types?

Im very curious but am not an enthusiast

Cookie_Monster

steamengine wrote: »

ss 'Great Eastern' anchor chain - they were huge ok.

anyway moving back on topic slightly with the expansion of the DART lines with the underground is there a possibility of a new DART class to expand the fleet to meet the demands of two lines?

Cookie_Monster

bigbadbear wrote: »

Is there any pics showing the different types?

Im very curious but am not an enthusiast

wikipedia link

eiretrain site 2nd half of page, great site!

Captain Chaos

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

anyway moving back on topic slightly with the expansion of the DART lines with the underground is there a possibility of a new DART class to expand the fleet to meet the demands of two lines?

They are already out for tender. IE have a big tender out for alot of new DMU and EMU units. The 2600s will need replacing in the short term (5-10years), they are already showing their age. The 29Ks are in full use more or less every day as are the 2800s.

The DART fleet will need to expand to cater for the electrification of the line to Drogheda, Maynooth and Hazelhatch.

steamengine

Captain Chaos wrote: »

The 8520s are the best now imo. Very smooth ride, good leg room and decent seats compared to the 8500s and 8510s which have the leg room for a 5 year old and seats that break you back with the shape of them.

The refurb 8100s are just not the same anymore. They lost the old electrical motor whine that I loved. The doors take an age to open and close now and the noise of the bleeber does my head in.

The 8200s should be pushed in the Tolka in an "accident".

Took a spin down to Bray today from Howth Junction - 8520's both directions, smooth , quiet and comfortable and the AC was working fine. Either 8520's or 8100's make for a pleasant journey especially during the off-peak hours when you assured of a seat. Howth Junction is a busy station, 2 DARTS, 2 Commuters and the Enterprise in a 15 minute period.

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

Sometimes compared to the "The Bay of Naples" as is Douglas Bay on the Isle of Man. Here is a classic GSR poster view for you westtip - just don't get any ideas about turning it into a cycleway.


http://www.gallery29.ie

Brilliant poster ! Irish Rail should advertise the DART with similar style posters at all the main stations to fill their off-peak DARTS. I reckon Howth/City centre to Bray or Greystones has a lot of tourist potential !

Judgement Day

steamengine wrote: »

Brilliant poster ! Irish Rail should advertise the DART with similar style posters at all the main stations to fill their off-peak DARTS. I reckon Howth/City centre to Bray or Greystones has a lot of tourist potential !

Before they start the promotion they would need to get their act together and clean-up the lineside, graffiti, the mess that greets one approaching Dun Laoghaire station from the Coal Harbour etc.etc.etc....The various local authorities along the route would also need to undertake a major clean up - Blackrock Park, Blackrock Baths, Williamstown Martello Tower, Cloncurry's Towers etc.etc.etc......:mad::mad::mad:

Run_to_da_hills

steamengine wrote: »

Brilliant poster ! Irish Rail should advertise the DART with similar style posters at all the main stations to fill their off-peak DARTS. I reckon Howth/City centre to Bray or Greystones has a lot of tourist potential !

The scenery was much more plesant back in those days, the view from the train wasn't spoilt by ugly overhead pylons.

CIE should have taken the 3rd rail option back then.

steamengine

Judgement Day wrote: »

Before they start the promotion they would need to get their act together and clean-up the lineside, graffiti, the mess that greets one approaching Dun Laoghaire station from the Coal Harbour etc.etc.etc....The various local authorities along the route would also need to undertake a major clean up - Blackrock Park, Blackrock Baths, Williamstown Martello Tower, Cloncurry's Towers etc.etc.etc......:mad::mad::mad:

There seems to be a lot of people with an attention deficit disorder ok. The grafitti sticks out like a sore thumb ! Interesting journey the other day, at Glenageary (i think) a guy was ordered off the train by an IE staff member, possibly for fare evasion ???. And returning Northside there were some dodgy looking 'athletes' very busy on their mobiles ! All in all though it made for a pleasant trip off-peak.