Hours

EDU26

:rolleyes:

cassi

I think (not 100% sure but think) that even though your longer in the school, it goes on how long your with the VEC rather that school. If the transfer teacher is with VEC longer, then they get the precidence over you. Also since she is permanent she will also get first preference.

Im pretty sure thats how the VEC works. If im wrong please correct me.

spurious

Yes as Cassi says, you're employed by the VEC, not the school, so the other person is 'there' longer.

Transfers in are always accommodated first in my experience.

mrboswell

I would have thought that length of time in VEC counts.

Anyway just be thankful you have job - there are lot of people out there that don't!

2xj3hplqgsbkym

As far as I know you will still get your CID this year for whatever hours you have, no matter what subjects you are teaching. Just make sure you have a contract for all the hours you are doing.

mrboswell

Marilyn Juicy Gopher wrote: »

As far as I know you will still get your CID this year for whatever hours you have, no matter what subjects you are teaching. Just make sure you have a contract for all the hours you are doing.

Will CID not be for the consistent amount of hours?
Eg. Yr 1 = 20, Yr 2 - 15, Yr 3 - 16.5, Yr - 18.

Would that not mean that you had 4 years of 15 hours min and so the CID is 15?

rainbowtrout

EDU26 wrote: »

This a slightly complicated story,

I applied and got a job teaching Science three yrs ago within a VEC, and at the interview was told it was 22hrs, which when i arrived and got my timetable was not the case, but had them brought up to 21.25 before end of October Returns.

The following yr my science hours where reduced to 11 hrs, which where the concessionary hrs available for the teacher who retired a few yrs earlier as were overquota, however again my hrs were made up to 21 but this time as substitions hrs for another teacher. Teaching computers mostly

Then in my third yr to make up my hours, of which i now only had seven hrs of science , i was asked to teach plc and computers again to make my hrs up to 17.5

I am now enterin my fourth yr and our school has an large increase in student numbers, so much so they advertised for another science teacher, however it turns out that this "new" science teacher is actually a transfer from within the VEC, with either permanent or CID status.

My science hours as a result are even less than last yr going into my fourth yr, which is the one my cid is based on, i am lucky that i have been assigned again PLC and now VTOS and computers, but while i can teach them , i am not offically qualified , and i am lucky that as far as i know i will have in excess of 18 hrs this yr.

However i am wondering what is my position as regard the teaching of science as surely i am more senior in the school than the transfer, (but she is permanent or cid), and why was i not offered the hours first, i understand that the union says it is at the schools discretion to assign hours , as long as you do not have less hours than you had the previous yr, which i dont, but they are hours not in my subject area, when their was clearly hours available.

Confused

You're not more senior than a permanent/CID teacher. it doesn't matter if they were only teaching one year and made permanent, permanent/cid hours HAVE to be filled before RPT teachers. So she was entitled to the hours before you.

You are employed by the VEC, not the school, and as a result it's years of service to the VEC that count. You could be redeployed to another school within the scheme if it suited, as this teacher has to yours.

The hours which you are on for this year are what will determine your CID next year. To be honest, I can understand exactly where you are coming from in not having many science hours and lots of computers particularly if you want to teach science but if you get 18+ hours this year within the school I would advise you to keep your mouth shut and head down and get on with the job. Next year you will have to get a CID for 18+ hours as a result, and if it is for more than 18, you will be entitled to be paid for 22. Normally because they don't want you working for 18 and paid for 22, you will also be timetabled for 22 as they are entitled to do in this situation.

I don't want to go down the road of saying 'sure aren't you lucky to have a job at all in the current climate', but I have seen 5 teachers lose their jobs in my school in the last two years. 2 have been redeployed within the VEC scheme in which I work, and all of the teachers who were in their fourth (CID) year last year and the same this year, were kept one class below 18 hours, so they can't get the magical 22 hours pay next year - or be timetabled for that either. If you are hell bent on teaching science you could apply for jobs elsewhere but they are not thick on the ground and you could get there and find yes, you are teaching science, but with a bit of everything thrown in as well and be in no better a position.

Jobs in teaching at the moment are few and far between and for your CID to become a reality next year you have to be re-employed next September. Making it to June doesn't count. They are perfectly entitled to let you go in June without any offer of CID, it's only when you start your fifth year that it kicks in.

So here is the real question you should be asking: Do you want a CID which effectively is permanency (I don't want to go into the semantics of the CID V permanency argument in this thread) which will have some science hours but a lot of computers or do you want to have a row with the principal because you would prefer to teach science instead of computers and perhaps not have a job next year? That is the reality of the situation.

You don't need to worry about qualifications for what you are timetabled for. That will not be taken into account when your CID is issued. What you need to worry about is how many hours are on your timetable. I hope it's 18 or more.


I would also advise you to start reading up a little bit more on CIDs and hours and perhaps talk to a few people in the know or attend a few union meetings before you start making claims to hours in school without really knowing what you are talking about. Because you'll be slapped down very fast if you don't have your facts right.

Just to give you an example , the job you applied for was 22 hours. Now I accept you take the advertisement at face value. Timetables can also change in the meantime. If say your school timetable has a mix of 35 and 40 min classes and you were given 21:25 in your first year, giving you a 40 minute class would have brought you over hours and they can't do that, and it may not have been possible to give you a 35 min class as it didn't fit the timetable so they gave you as close to 22 as possible. Also the fact that you thought you were more senior than another teacher who was a permanent teacher within the VEC would suggest you need to start learning more about how the system works, for your own good if nothing else.

rainbowtrout

mrboswell wrote: »

Will CID not be for the consistent amount of hours?
Eg. Yr 1 = 20, Yr 2 - 15, Yr 3 - 16.5, Yr - 18.

Would that not mean that you had 4 years of 15 hours min and so the CID is 15?

No it's based on the hours you had in your fourth year, so it can work for or against you.

peanuthead

Can I ask some questions regarding CIDs:

1. Do the four years HAVE to be consecutive? For example, What about Year 1,2,3 being in employment and year 4 doing HDIP. Does year 5 then count as your 'year 4' so to speak?

2. Are BTEI/Adult Education hours within a school, together with timetabled hours counted as part of your CID?

3. If you have, say for example 10hours English and 8 hours Irish on your timetable in year 4 is your CID then for 10hours English and 8 hours Irish? Or is it simply for 18(22) hours?

Thanks for help

rainbowtrout

peanuthead wrote: »

Can I ask some questions regarding CIDs:

1. Do the four years HAVE to be consecutive? For example, What about Year 1,2,3 being in employment and year 4 doing HDIP. Does year 5 then count as your 'year 4' so to speak?

2. Are BTEI/Adult Education hours within a school, together with timetabled hours counted as part of your CID?

3. If you have, say for example 10hours English and 8 hours Irish on your timetable in year 4 is your CID then for 10hours English and 8 hours Irish? Or is it simply for 18(22) hours?

Thanks for help

1. The four years have to be consecutive. If you teach for three years, go to college for a year and then come back and start teaching again in the same school you are back on year 1 again.

2. If your hours are within the school timetable, they count. In my school I teach mainstream and PLC. One teacher teaches mainstream, PLC and VTOS. I assume you are VEC employed. You are employed by the VEC not by the school, so all your VEC hours should count.

3. Don't know the exact wording of the CID but you if you had 10 English and 8 Irish you will get a CID for 18 hours. I can't remember if it says anything about subjects on it. It will say 18 hours on it, although you will be paid for 22.

peanuthead

rainbowtrout wrote: »

1. The four years have to be consecutive. If you teach for three years, go to college for a year and then come back and start teaching again in the same school you are back on year 1 again.

2. If your hours are within the school timetable, they count. In my school I teach mainstream and PLC. One teacher teaches mainstream, PLC and VTOS. I assume you are VEC employed. You are employed by the VEC not by the school, so all your VEC hours should count.

3. Don't know the exact wording of the CID but you if you had 10 English and 8 Irish you will get a CID for 18 hours. I can't remember if it says anything about subjects on it. It will say 18 hours on it, although you will be paid for 22.

Thanks for that.

So the situation above is mine.

I worked for 3 years, went and did PGDE for year 4. Was in the same school and was doing BTEI work (although I dont think I was supposed to do this) and now am heading into what I thought was year 5 or year 4 part 2 as I like to call it.

But by the sounds of things its year 1 again?

Oh god

rainbowtrout

peanuthead wrote: »

Thanks for that.

So the situation above is mine.

I worked for 3 years, went and did PGDE for year 4. Was in the same school and was doing BTEI work (although I dont think I was supposed to do this) and now am heading into what I thought was year 5 or year 4 part 2 as I like to call it.

But by the sounds of things its year 1 again?

Oh god

Well it depends, did you have a contract for the BTEI hours while doing the PGDE? I don't think doing the PDGE is relevant in the sense that it's more important that you had 4 consecutive teaching years.

peanuthead

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Well it depends, did you have a contract for the BTEI hours while doing the PGDE? I don't think doing the PDGE is relevant in the sense that it's more important that you had 4 consecutive teaching years.

Well actually the VEC sent me out a form to sign stating that I had zero hours for that year.

I showed it to my principal and asked him what it was about. He told me to sign it and send it back but I didn't as I thought it was suspicious.

I didn't sign anything at the start of that year, but never did for ANY of the years I was there. Have statements from VEC stating that I was employed by them from 2006 though.

I must sound very stupid and to be honest, I'm starting to feel it. I have no idea about the politics of the job and am really going to have to learn it all.

rainbowtrout

peanuthead wrote: »

Well actually the VEC sent me out a form to sign stating that I had zero hours for that year.

I showed it to my principal and asked him what it was about. He told me to sign it and send it back but I didn't as I thought it was suspicious.

I didn't sign anything at the start of that year, but never did for ANY of the years I was there. Have statements from VEC stating that I was employed by them from 2006 though.

I must sound very stupid and to be honest, I'm starting to feel it. I have no idea about the politics of the job and am really going to have to learn it all.

Right, I'm just going by the experience of one of the teachers in my school last year. ( I was union rep last year). If you have hours of employment anywhere whether it be a school or otherwise you are entitled to a contract of employment. So if you were paid for hours last year and they were your own you should have received a contract for those hours.

This is what I'm reading from it:
Year 1 : 2006 - 2007 : taught your regular hours
Year 2 : 2007 - 2008 : taught your regular hours
Year 3: 2008 - 2009 : taught your regular hours
Year 4: 2009 - 2010 : taught a reduced number of hours in the school in BTEI instead of mainstream while you were doing PGDE in the school, but they were your own hours.

The letters of employment from the VEC - do they state your hours:

The ones in my school generally get them in the form:

Dear Peanuthead,

I wish to inform you that XXX VEC is in a position to renew your contract for the 2009-2010 year.


Do you have any payslips for last year? How many hours did you have on BTEI? PM, if you don't want to put too many details up here.