Was this safe

Ilyushin76

Was looking through youtube and found this video of an aeroflot 767 taking off during a storm.Do you take it was safe to takeoff ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb7Mkw9_rL0

lord lucan

I can only assume that the Pilot in conjunction with ATC agreed that the weather was within the set tolerances allowed. Doesn't look really bad imo.

the beerhunter

considering this was a takeoff, the spoilers were a bit deployed for my liking i.e. length of the effing runway. they went limp and floppy eventually, but doesn't strike me as "retracted" or aiding airflow in any definite way.

rob88

the beerhunter wrote: »

considering this was a takeoff, the spoilers were a bit deployed for my liking i.e. length of the effing runway. they went limp and floppy eventually, but doesn't strike me as "retracted" or aiding airflow in any definite way.

i think he was banking it to the left to keep the wing on the ground.. having spoilers deployed would not get the plane off the ground.. i dont think many airports on european soil would operate in this weather

pclancy

Ailerons/Spoilers not fully deployed spoilers otherwise you wouldn’t be going anywhere

The flight wouldn’t have gone anywhere unless the aircraft and crew were operating within defined limits of wind, wet runway length etc and the cloud base/vis minimums.

rob88

pclancy wrote: »

Ailerons/Spoilers not fully deployed spoilers otherwise you wouldn’t be going anywhere

can you type that out again please? i don't fully understand what you are saying.. thanks

pclancy

During the takeoff roll the if the spoilers were extended the aircraft would never takeoff and would end up in a heap at the end of the runway. Spoilers dump lift.

What you can see extended during the takeoff roll are part of the outboard spoilers that also function as ailerons. The pilot was holding the wings level to counteract a strong wind hence the appearance that the "spoilers were deployed" when in fact theyre working as ailerons to keep the wings level.

rob88

ah yes that is what i said and presumed.. i thought you were arguing with it and i couldn't make sense if you had meant it the opposite way around lol

Cessna_Pilot

Looks fine to me. Nice strong gusty cross wind and a bit of rain is all I can see there, nothing out of the ordinary at all.

T-Square

Looks normal.

Flaps were down to generate additional lift, I'd say the slats were down too.

Ailerons were working to keep the aircraft level during rotation.

Rain limited visibility, but that level of rain is *nothing* to a jet engine.

highlydebased

T-Square wrote: »

Looks normal.

Flaps were down to generate additional lift, I'd say the slats were down too.

Ailerons were working to keep the aircraft level during rotation.

Rain limited visibility, but that level of rain is *nothing* to a jet engine.

You'd have flaps and slats on a "normal" takeoff too ;)

Ilyushin76

Thanks for all replys.Mods please close.

Celtic Mech

Just for info....On all large aircraft the Spoilers operate in conjunction with the Ailerons. The Spoiler deflection is always larger at lower speeds. It is not all the Spoilers that act as Roll Spoilers tho. E.g. Some aircraft use spoilers 3,4 and 5 as Roll Spoilers. The down-going wing's Aileron will be in an upwards deflection...this will be aided also by spoiler deflection. I think, If i remember back to basic aerodynamics, that the down going wing has to go thru a greater pressure area therefore it is helped with the Roll Spoilers.

For anyone who is curious...In General on Large Aircraft...All the Spoilers act as ground Spoilers on touchdown...i.e. All will deploy.
In the air as speed brakes....in general all will operate except the Inboard Spoilers both wings.
As stated above the Roll Spoilers will generally be a section of the outboard spoilers. All spoilers will deflect a different amount in relation to the airspeed and amount of Roll required.

Sorry for ranting on but thought i would try give an insight into this for anyone unfamiliar. Might make a bit more sense now when looking at the YouTube video above.

pclancy

Cheers Celtic you're not ranting you explained nicely

owenc

Naw of course not its only rain and its not like the visiblity is down to 50m or anything, the fast speeds of the aircraft are making the rain blow across the windows.

Bearcat

the ace pilot there had full aileron into wind..............totally unnecessary with the same result with 1/2 -1/4 control column to the left would have maintained directional control even at max cross wind. All that is achieved apart from not being certified to do is putting the vmcg through the roof and increasing your t/o dist............short rwy it might have got sporty.

balkanhawk

How would aileron into wind increase Vmcg?

Bearcat

Greater that 1/4-1/2 deflection, spoilers will rise......so putting full left aileron in as in the control wheel fully down into the wind raises the spoilers

Bearcat

lord lucan wrote: »

I can only assume that the Pilot in conjunction with ATC agreed that the weather was within the set tolerances allowed. Doesn't look really bad imo.

the PIC in liason with the F/O is the sole arbitrator whether the planes takes off or not. ATC though may close the airport due weather which seals the deal. In reality ATC will liase with flight crew advising them of weather on the departure path and offer early right/left turns etc.

Si Co15

I dont think aileron into wind would do anything to vmcg.

After an engine failure the pilot is going to use the ailerons to control the aircraft so what they are doing before hand makes no difference.

I dont see anything unsafe with this flight, its just not nice weather.

Bearcat

i'd be very keen to know and learn why vmcg will not greatly increase with full spoiler delection on t/o. Airbus are very specific re use of side stick in cross wind t/o's...........i'm all ears.:)

Aerohead

Tell you one thing if I was on board I would be scared shi...ss, did I see lightning flashes on lift off thats even more scary :eek::eek::eek:

dfx-

Aerohead wrote: »

Tell you one thing if I was on board I would be scared shi...ss, did I see lightning flashes on lift off thats even more scary :eek::eek::eek:

Nothing to fear with Aeroflot

Ilyushin76

Yes aeroflop are a great airline.

Si Co15

Bearcat wrote: »

i'd be very keen to know and learn why vmcg will not greatly increase with full spoiler delection on t/o. Airbus are very specific re use of side stick in cross wind t/o's...........i'm all ears.:)

Well Vmcg is the minimum speed on the ground with one engine on maximum thrust/power and the other windmilling that the aircraft can maintain directional control by aerodynamic means only.

So in the event of an engine failure the pilot is going to use the control surfaces to stop the aircraft from turning towards the dead engine, so the spoilers may not even be deployed on the same wing (to counter act wind cocking) as before the engine failure.

I would say that the reason they don't want spoiler use on T/O is because it creates drag and therefor increases the T/O distance.

I could be wrong but I cannot see spoiler use would effect Vmcg.

Ilyushin76

Was this safe ? =

Yes

Bearcat

Fair point Si Co15...you got me...maybe I should be harping on about vmca? http://www.westwingsinc.com/vmca.htm bottom line is agressive aileron into wind on rotation on commercial jet will deffo effect the aircrafts performance.....look at the airbus FCTM's.......from memory boeing mention it as well.?????

Bearcat

looking again at this vid, the pilot has full left aileron on the take off run which is totally unnecessary.....look how much aileron he needs to use on rotation to ensure wings level....not even a 1/4 of what was used on the t/o run........way over controlling and just inducing drag with that big spoiler raised which certainly was not factored into the computation of the performance figures.

Better get up and go to work!!

CaptainSkidmark

i think the speed of the aircraft is making it look worse than it actually is.

Bearcat

skids your taking the p!ss.