How to address this...

LegacyUser

Hi All,

I was hoping to post this in the adoption section but I would like to go unreg and it doesn’t seem to give the option.
Basically my sister was told by my aunt last night that my mother had a son before she married my father and had myself and my sister. There are all sorts of horrible circumstances in my mother’s family which have also come to light, and I am really reeling at the moment from the shock of it. I got a call at 2 o clock this morning from my sister in tears and haven’t slept a wink since.

I really adored my mother’s parents who are still alive, and I actually feel like that grand-parental love is now just dead. I cannot believe they would force my mother (who is one of the kindest and most loving women in the world) to go through 6 months of torture and then force her to give away her child. It all happened in a Magdeline laundry somewhere- details need to be confirmed. Apparently she was allowed (or forced?) to keep the child for 6 weeks before handing him over. My aunt also told my sister that when my mother returned after giving away her baby, she was beaten black and blue from her neck to her knees. How can any parents allow this to happen to their child- for the sake of what! Saving face?

My grandmother also forced my mother to confess her ‘sin’ to my father when they got together- which caused them to break up, but they subsequently got back together. Apparently my dad was very supportive to my Mum over this and helped her years ago when she tried to trace her son.
Right now I am in so much shock, I am going through the classic denial today where I just cannot believe this could be possible- yet at the same time it makes so much sense. I have asked my sister to speak to my aunt again today and see if she is sticking with that story in the cold light of day.

My instinct tells me to do a few things right now...
I want to tell my grandparents they are dead to me, I want to tell them they have ruined lives for the sake of their pathetic vanity. (There are more reasons than the forced adoption for this feeling too)( I dont plan to do this however, my mother has retained a reasonable relationship with them in the 30 years since this has happened and I dont plan on working against her wishes on this)

More than anything I want to get in my car and drive the 5 hours to my mum, I want to go with my sister and tell her we know, tell her we love her and tell her what a wonderful mother she has been and continues to be.
We also really want to help my mother find her son, our brother, if he wants to be found. Im sure the search before was a while ago and I’m hoping maybe the system is a bit more transparent and easy now?
My question (and if this could be moved to the adoption forum I’d be grateful) is how to address this with mum now.

I plan to go home at the weekend and sit down with my sister to ask her the truth (in a completely supportive, non confrontational way). I am scared though that this will do more harm than good, that my parents have compartmentalized this and that us dredging up the past will cause so much pain to both of them all over again. That is the last thing in the world we want to do- but we cant just pretend we don’t know can we?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

Ickle Magoo

I would hold off saying anything until you have your head sorted about what has gone on. Wait until you are over the initial shock, anger and disappointment and then talk about it over and over with your sister, then your parents. I am on the other side, I'm adopted but I think the same applies: talking through how you feel with a sibling who went through/is going through the same thing is invaluable.

Btw, you can post anonymously in the adoption forum if you PM one of the adoption mods; CathyMoran, holly_johnson or smccarrick (if you click on their names at the foot of the adoption page in the following link, you will get to their homepage and you can choose to PM or email or whatever from there) and ask them to move this thread over.

Adoption


Best of luck

Taltos

Am with Ickle on this.
Take your time to work through your emotions as best you can before you talk to your mum and try not to let chatting with your sister work you both up into a state.

Some things to consider though:
> Ireland back then is very different to now.
> As disgraceful as it is "saving face" as you put it was a huge driver in rural Ireland. I remember one priest naming a young woman in her teens who fell pregnant in the middle of mass as bringing shame on her whole family...
> Your half brother - he may not want to be found. He might not know he is adopted (unlikely). The reason I say this is one of my brother is adopted and while we only found out a few years ago he has been quite clear he never ever wants to find out who his biological parents are...

Don't jump to any judgements and try to keep an open mind for your mother's sake. Cutting off your grandparents - may just rake up old feelings in her and cause her more pain... Keeping civil - or keeping the peace while not easy may mean more to your mum.

It was a rotten time in our past and while your aunt may not have had the right to tell you maybe you can use this information to reinforce to your mum how much she means to you.

coolcat63

I was adopted (in the UK) some 47 years ago. My birth mother, like yours, was forced to give me up by her parents although the circumstances weren't probably as extreme as you describe. As Taltos says society's attitude to pregnancy outside marriage were hugely different back then - we can't even start to comprehend the pressure and 'shame'.

Don't make any snap decisions - take to your mum and find out the true story (only IF she wants to talk about it, if she doesn't, or can't PLEASE respect her choice) and be as supportive as you can.

I have now been in close and regular contact with my birth mother and her family (and yes, the grandmother who forced the adoption - she bitterly regretted it and we were very close until her death in 2008). Norcap is very helpful with loads of information for all sides of the adult adoption triangle.

Good luck.

PopUp

To be honest, my first reaction is one of shock that your aunt decided to take it upon herself to tell you this.

This isn't her secret or her story to tell, it's your mother's, and your mother had the right to let you know or keep it to herself. It's really, really not OK for your aunt to have inserted herself into this like she has. I know you are feeling like it's better for you to be informed but this is your mother's past and her relationship with you, she should own and control it, and I cannot believe her own sister would betray her confidence like this.

Now that you do know, I think you should tell your mother that, for the sake of honesty.

I just want to point out that your aunt's rather sensational account of the story may not be entirely accurate.

Magdalene laundries were awful, horrible places and it is good that we now know and condemn what went on in them. BUT. Every home for unmarried mothers was not a Magdalene laundry. Look up threads on the adoption forum about homes like the Good Shepherd in Dunboyne. Magdalene laundries were mostly permanent homes for girls who had been completely disowned or abandoned. Most homes did not beat young women, especially young women who were from decent families and going home once they had their child. The young women who were there often WANTED to have their children adopted, and to avoid the social stigma of unplanned pregnancy. In modern eyes, that might sound cold or unfeeling but it truly wasn't, they were raised to think you had to be married to be a good parent and giving up the child was the best thing for it.

If some of the details of your aunts story is true - if your mother was really tortured, if your grandparents really physically forced her to do this, rather than all three of them agreeing it was for the best - then of course you are right to want to distance yourself from them. But I would take stories of beatings with a massive pinch of salt (I have a feeling your aunt was VERY drunk when she decided to spill the beans to your sister, right?) and please try to remember that your grandparents may have seen their daughter with her whole life ahead of her and simply not bee able to comprehend that single women could raise children properly. In their eyes, they were giving both your mother and the baby better lives. (And I would take your grandmother 'forcing' your mother to tell your dad with a pinch of salt too. That's not a secret somebody should keep from their fiance or husband, and your grandmother again may not have been bullying your mum but trying to help).

Of course I could be totally wrong and your grandparents may indeed not be the loving couple you have always thought them to be, they may have been wicked and abusive. I just want you to be aware that this scenario is WAY more common in Irish families than your might think, and it's not always the case that young girls were being beaten and bullied. Your mother may feel she gave her and the baby the best chance in life they both could have had, and be happy with her decision, and have kept it secret because it is behind her.

LegacyUser

Hi All,

Thanks for the replies, it is really and truelly appreciated that you took the time to respond so thoroughly.

I particularly agree with the last comment that my aunt was out of order in (and you guessed it) drunkenly spilling the beans on something which was my mum (and i guess my dad's) secret to tell. In her defence she is pretty messed up herself by other events, but regardless it was a thoughtless action.

In some ways I almost wish I could unknow this conversation and carry on the current relationship I have with my mum, but now the box has been open and I dont think ignoring the contents is a good long term solution.

At the moment my main thoughts are just sympathy for what my mum went through- though you are of course right in sayig that my aunts version of events could be heavily influences by her own perceptions and perhaps my mums experience wasnt so bad.

I cant even compute at the present moment the whole potential brother thing. That both terrifies and excites me, but as you rightly point out there is no guarantee he wants to be found, or what there will be any tearful reunions.

Miss Fluff

I know you have had a big shock and I feel for you.

I cannot however believe that your aunt would betray your mother like this. It's not her trauma to tell so she is bang out of order.

You need to go and visit your Mum at the weekend and tell her you know. She may not have ever wanted you or your sister to know however (after all she chose not to tell either of you) so before you go jumping the gun and try tracing your brother and never speaking to your grandparents again, you need to take stock of what has happened and let your mother be your guide.

This was a terribly sad and traumatic thing for her to have gone through so you have to respect your Mum's wishes and let her tell you in her own good time. Talking about it may invoke some really horrific memories for the poor woman so you have to let her deal with the bombshell that you both know in her own way, and that could take time.

LegacyUser

Miss Fluff wrote: »

I know you have had a big shock and I feel for you.

I cannot however believe that your aunt would betray your mother like this. It's not her trauma to tell so she is bang out of order.

You need to go and visit your Mum at the weekend and tell her you know. She may not have ever wanted you or your sister to know however (after all she chose not to tell either of you) so before you go jumping the gun and try tracing your brother and never speaking to your grandparents again, you need to take stock of what has happened and let your mother be your guide.

This was a terribly sad and traumatic thing for her to have gone through so you have to respect your Mum's wishes and let her tell you in her own good time. Talking about it may invoke some really horrific memories for the poor woman so you have to let her deal with the bombshell that you both know in her own way, and that could take time.

Hi Miss Fluff,

I agree completely. I am so scared of this dredging up painful memories for my mum, and also for reliving what I can imagine to be very strained times in my parents marraige too.
I just feel so confused and conflicted right now- but we will say it as gently as possible and not push anything

Beruthiel

shattered_by_this

Times have changed dramatically since these events first happened to your mother.
Yet still, she has chosen not to inform you.
Think long and hard about this before bringing it up with her.
Take the information in and sit on it for a while. At least until you have well and truly calmed down.

I cannot even contemplate the pressure of society and the catholic church on people back then.
It was barbaric.
You would have wanted to be one hell of a strong person to go against the grain. I'm pretty sure it would have resulted in them becoming an outcast.
That doesn't excuse your grandparents behaviour, but it does explain it.

Miss Fluff

Agreed with Beruthiel on this. Might be an idea to take a little while until you bring this up and all the rage and hurt has abated a little.

I do think you need to tell her you know though. Just choose your time.

metrovelvet

Ok the aunt may have been out of order, but that is a really hard secret to sit on for so long. It was going to come out one day. And we all know what secrets do to families.

I think after you do let it settle a bit, you should tell your mother that you know now and tell her how you know.

bp

Hey,

I have a friend in a similar situation (found out after her mother passed) that she and her siblings had a half sibling. Now this discovering was made years ago but only decided to look for the half sibling recently (which went really well and they get along like a house on fire). But you must understand what your mother was going through at the time.....we can only imagine the pressure that she was under and how the entire family would have been treated if she didn't go to 'London to visit a cousin' or whatever the story was.

You must also look at how the family of the father treated your mother - his partents may have pushed her into the home not your grandparents. There are a lot of elements to this story and blame cannot be placed on your grandparents alone.

Your mother and grandparents probably think about this every day - christmas, birthday's, mother's day etc - I doubt they feel guilt free.

Once it has sunk in go and talk to your mother and grandparents and get the full story but don't go off cutting people out of your life, you may live to regret that.

A lot of those Magdeline homes were dreadful and your grandparents would have seen their daughter come home black and blue and sad so they would have suffered too. As for telling your father, maybe there were rumours around town already and they felt it best he knew the truth?

Also you don't know if your mother has tried to make contact or where he is or if he is still alive - they may have tried to track him down already and failed....just be careful how you approach this.

Anyway good luck with this

username123

Hi OP - just wanted to offer a message of support. Do tell your mum you know, but dont be confrontational. See what she has to say before you do anything else. Dont jump to quick decisions on the grandparents, they may have been under different pressures you would have no concept of - I mean if your mum still has a relationship with them, then perhaps she has made her peace with it? Your aunt was out of order. Definitely, but these things come out and now you need to discuss it with your mum.

A friends mum recently had a deathbed confession made to her by her mum, it turned out she was illegally adopted (bought) from a magadelene type place. She immediately went tracking down her real mother and amazingly she found her - but her real mum did not really want to re-open old wounds, and although they did have some contact it was clear that this was not a relationship to be persued. Things change and times change and people move on and not everyone wants to revisit the past so your half brother may have zero interest in knowing who his real mum was. Im not so sure itd be easy for your mum to trace him, I would think the tracing is assisted on behalf of the adopted child as opposed to the mother who gave the child up for adoption - although I dont know how that works when that child is an adult.

Anyway - tread carefully, dont make snap judgements based on a drunken aunties confession of a secret she should never have told.

The_Conductor

shattered_by_this

Sadly your story is far from unusual.

A few little things- not all of the Mother and Baby Homes were Magdalen Laundries, though inevitably women would be forced to work in whichever home they had the misfortune to attend. Often this could be gardening- or any of a large range of menial chores that the nuns (who seem to have ran all the homes) could come up with. A good starting point which gives you an accurate picture of life in a Mother and Baby home is June Goulding's- A light in the Window (detailing life in Bessboro, Blackrock, Cork- where she was temporarily assigned as a midwife in the 60s). It is quite harrowing and bleak- be prepared.

I would really suggest that you take a little time to understand how Irish society differed just a few short years ago- to the Ireland of today- and try to understand the situation your mother found herself in, and what her options were. Prior to September 1974- single mothers were not entitled to claim even children's benefit- and certainly would not be able to get gainful employment anywhere- were they to attempt to keep their children.

When you are talking to your Mum- if that is what you decide to do- she will need all the support and reassurance you and your sister can offer her- this is a secret that she has lived with for decades, and she is probably terrified about how you may react, or how your sister may react- to the news of your sibling out there.

If you, your Mum or sister do decide to search for your elder brother at some stage- there are helpfiles in the Adoption Forum, detailing how you might go about it. You will also find a lot of support there- from birthmothers, siblings and adopted people, who will probably understand what you're going through- as many have been through similar circumstances.

If you PM any of the 3 moderator's for the adoption forum (Holly, Cathy or myself) we would be more than happy to post anything you like on your behalf in the Adoption Forum. Unfortunately we had to remove the anonymous posting capability as we had people abusing it.

Best wishes,

Shane

Big Bag of Chips

shattered_by_this, I don't think you have a choice in letting your mother know that you know.. your aunt may already have confessed to her.

And by your silence, your mam might think that you are ashamned of her. Before the weekend, it might be worth a phone call to your mam. Tell her you're coming home for the weekend. Tell her you know, and tell her you love her.

All the rest can be said and done at the weekend and over the coming weeks and months.

LegacyUser

I too found out about a similar ghost in my mothers past some years ago.

38 years ago my older brother was born to my mother. She comes from a rural area of Ireland from a strict Catholic family. My brothers father was a local older farmers son who took no responsability. My mother was a single pregnent woman in 1970's Ireland.

My grandparents sent my mother to a "home" run by nuns somewhere near Dublin to have the baby, based on advice and pressure from the local priest. This so called home was a forced adoption factory where young girls were sent by their parents so they could have their child and then have the child taken away.

Once the children were born the women had to prepare the babies every Saturday morning for a Saturday afternoon which entailed laying the babies out so couples from Dublin area could come and view the children with a goal to adopt one. The girls were not allowed to participate in this at all and had to just hide and watch it happen. My older brother was born with a click in his hip and was in a cast until 6 months old or so. The nuns told my mother he was damaged and no one would want him so he wasn't laid out with the other babies and she would just have to keep him. During her time there she was physically, emotionally and verbally abused by the nuns.

My mother eventually was sent home with my brother and my grandparents sent her to England to live with her older sister because of the shame. She met my dad there and married. She spent the next 35 years in a rocky loveless marriage and had me and my younger brother.

We found out about this when I was in my 20's. The details of names and places have faded for my mother but the experience left her with something broken inside which has never fully healed. It has rarely been spoken of within our family, mainly because our family is so broken and fragmented with a lot of divisions having formed over the years. I don't live in Ireland anymore and have no intention of ever doing so again. These stories are so common in Ireland, it has always amazed me that the religious orders haven't been driven into the sea with pitch forks many years ago.

I read the original post earlier today and it reminded me of the emotion I feel when I think about this. I don't think of it often but when I do I feel pain for my mother. I have no real advice to give because I haven't done a good job with it myself. All I can say is focus on your mother more than your adopted sibling. Your mother has carried the pain for many years and it will likely never fully heal. Your sibling was hopefully adopted into a good loving family and thrived without ever knowing the details. Moving too quickly to find him will open a lot of wounds and guilt and may bring you and your sister much more satisfaction than your mother.

Taltos

Look above all though - if your mum does not want to discuss this please ensure you respect her wishes.

When I was 21 my sisters decided to tell me that my older brother - the one I always felt closest too was adopted. Why? Because I said it was weird that in such a large family me and him were the only two with dark hair.

As you can imagine this came as a huge shock to me and to another younger brother. Not sure we ever can get past the way our sisters chose to tell us - it really was not their place. But - when we went to mum she made it clear she didn't want to discuss it. Going to our brother - just let him know we knew and that it didn't change a thing for us - well it did - just not towards him - more towards our sisters...

Best of luck and really take it slowly

LegacyUser

similar wrote: »

I read the original post earlier today and it reminded me of the emotion I feel when I think about this. I don't think of it often but when I do I feel pain for my mother. I have no real advice to give because I haven't done a good job with it myself. All I can say is focus on your mother more than your adopted sibling. Your mother has carried the pain for many years and it will likely never fully heal. Your sibling was hopefully adopted into a good loving family and thrived without ever knowing the details. Moving too quickly to find him will open a lot of wounds and guilt and may bring you and your sister much more satisfaction than your mother.

Thanks for sharing your story. I absolutely agree that the focus will be on my mother- any move towards looking for him will be only done if it is initiated by her. My plan when I see her (which cant even be this weekend now and her and my dad are going away for the weekend- so will be next weekend) will be to sit down with her and my sister and gently tell her that we have been told something regarding her having another child, that we arent even sure if its true, that we love her, and that we are ok with it if she never wants to discuss it, and of course ok with it if she does want to share. My sister is a bit of a hot head- so I think having a week for it to settle in with her will probably be only a good thing.

LegacyUser

I suspect that I am about the same age as your mother( late 50s – 60s). I had a very good friend who had much the same experience in the late sixties/early seventies. I don’t often comment on posts here as I find myself of an older generation. But in this case I feel I can give a perspective of someone born in the fifties. The society of the fifties-seventies really was very different to today.

“Basically my sister was told by my aunt last night that my mother had a son before she married my father and had myself and my sister.”
“I really adored my mother’s parents who are still alive, and I actually feel like that grand-parental love is now just dead.”

I won’t comment on your aunt but remember she is the only source you have and the story might not be accurate. At the very least it might be exaggerated! Don’t be so quick to make judgement on your grandparents.

“Apparently she was allowed (or forced?) to keep the child for 6 weeks before handing him over.”

My close friend was also allowed keep her child for six weeks. She then decided not to have him, it was a boy, adopted and the nuns supported her in that decision. It would have been hard for any single girl alone to keep her child in those times. In at least some cases the nuns provided support no matter what the choice was.

“ My aunt also told my sister that when my mother returned after giving away her baby, she was beaten black and blue from her neck to her knee”

I assume you aunt is saying that your mother was beaten by the nuns rather than by your grandparents. Remember that corporal punishment was normal at that time. Girls in school were routinely punished – I know because I received it as well. Girls in such a home would almost certainly be treated the same as school girls in a boarding school. I suggest the ‘black and blue’ is almost certainly an exaggeration.


“I want to tell my grandparents they are dead to me, I want to tell them they have ruined lives for the sake of their pathetic vanity.”

Be slow to judge.


”I want to go with my sister and tell her we know, tell her we love her”

Remember your mother choose to keep this matter secret up till now. Do you not consider that perhaps you should accept her decision in that. I know you want to bring it up with your mother for the best reasons but these events took place in an Ireland you cannot really imagine. If your mother has never told you or your sister then maybe it is because that’s what she wants..

LegacyUser

hI aLL,

Op here again

I just wanted to say I really appreciated all your feedback and support when I posted this a couple of weeks ago and give some feedback now.

We spoke to my mum this weekend. I did take on board the suggestions to say nothing- but to be honest I felt that enough secrets and lies had been propogated over the years and i didnt want to carry it into a new generation

My mum was fairly shocked that we knew as obviously we expected. Her first instinct was to want to know who had told us and, as predicted to be annoyed that her trust had been broken like that. I did tell her in the end who told, but I think once mum started talking about it it became a secondary concern.

The story was basically true- my Granny made her decision on how best to deal with it and that was that. My grandad would have been happy to go along with whatever but was too weak a man to stand up to my grandmother (i dont know many people who would stand up to her) My mother said she thinks about her son everyday, she said she could never be truelly close to her mum again, but she is quite a religious person herself (although she is catholic i would think of her more as christian than indocrinated catholic) and she believes that my grandmother will meet her god someday and it is only then she will be held to account

What struck me the most was just how un-bitter my mum was. She was still hurting- still scared of being judged but just not bitter. When I asked her about this she said its just not the kind of person she is. She chose to look at the blessings in her life, a fairly happy marraige, 2 daughters, a grand-daughter she dotes on, and she decided to focus her life on all these, rather than live in the past and allow it to eat her up.

I must say I was humbled by it- and my estimation of my mother's goodness and strength has gone through the roof. I would like to hope someday we can consider looking for him together- but that will be her decision in her time. For now I am trying to take a leaf from her book and see the positive in this, I believe this has brought us all closer together and it's certainly been a timely reminder for me of what a wonderful mother she has been.

My sister seems to be finding my mums atitude more difficult to deal with. She doesnt understand her lack of anger and hatred, and she doesnt seem ready to reconsile with it. I am trying to keep talking to her about it and keep highlighting the positives of the strength of mum's responce.

I think the journey of discovery and understanding ahead will be a long slow one, but I feel an important first step has been taken.