Buying an Iphone4.

Nudley23

Hey Guys,

My iphone broke on me a few days back and I'm intending replacing it with the new iphone4. I was just wondering if anyone could give me any advice before I purchase or if anyone knows the prices for the phone as an 02 customer [pay as you go customer...??!!] I heard that it works out cheaper to purchase the phone from 02 in the uk but how does it work changing reception to O2 irl..???!

Any info would be great

Cheers Noel.

jock101

I bought mine from Apple direct Sim free! No contracts, no hassle!

shinfujiwara

Nudley23 wrote: »

Hey Guys,

My iphone broke on me a few days back and I'm intending replacing it with the new iphone4. I was just wondering if anyone could give me any advice before I purchase or if anyone knows the prices for the phone as an 02 customer [pay as you go customer...??!!] I heard that it works out cheaper to purchase the phone from 02 in the uk but how does it work changing reception to O2 irl..???!

Any info would be great

Cheers Noel.

Why don't you buy an iPod Touch which will provide almost anything that an iPhone does? There is some cheap refurbished ones at www.apple.com/ie.

It is MUCH cheaper than an iPhone 4, the battery will last more and you can use a cheap cellphone for calls and this will also give you more battery life.

I really don't see the point of having a REALLY expensive smart phone yet, am i missing something? I could be wrong.

Gregor Samsa

shinfujiwara wrote: »

am i missing something? I could be wrong.

You'd be missing 3g data (try using the internet on the Touch on the bus), a camera, GPS, etc, etc, and all the functionality the integration of these technologies bring (augmented reality, etc). In fairness, most people I know with a Touch recognise the shortcomings of the touch and the further potential of the iPhone (or any decent smartphone). Don't get me wrong, the touch is a great device, but the iPhone adds a lot of features that makes the premium well worth it to many people. There's no way I'd go back.

shinfujiwara

phutyle wrote: »

You'd be missing 3g data (try using the internet on the Touch on the bus), a camera, GPS, etc, etc, and all the functionality the integration of these technologies bring (augmented reality, etc). In fairness, most people I know with a Touch recognise the shortcomings of the touch and the further potential of the iPhone (or any decent smartphone). Don't get me wrong, the touch is a great device, but the iPhone adds a lot of features that makes the premium well worth it to many people. There's no way I'd go back.

I believe the best advantage is the 3G indeed. I don't own a mobile device yet and don't think that i would miss 3G too much if i could use wifi walking around some places.

You have a point, but i still think that an iPhone 4 and other devices like this one are incredibly overpriced. People don't realize that they won't be charged only €200.00 or something like that. The total cost of the device in the long run of 18 months is amazingly huge, and you need to pay for the 3G plan too.

I guess it all depends on how much you are willing to pay to stay connected 100% of the time.

irish1967

You don't own one yet? Ya see there is the problem. Me thinks if you did you might think different.

The cost isn't that massive. I would be paying a monthly fee on O2 no matter what phone I had.

shinfujiwara

irish1967 wrote: »

You don't own one yet? Ya see there is the problem. Me thinks if you did you might think different.

The cost isn't that massive. I would be paying a monthly fee on O2 no matter what phone I had.

"isn't that massive?" An iPhone 4 costs the same amount of money of some Vaio laptop for example. And on the other hand, you can get normal phones for free.

Simple O2 plan without phone = €20. Simple O2 plan with iPhone 4 = €40. So, you pay a high amount of money in the beginning (€200, right?) and you still need to pay 20 additional euros during 18 months. 18 x 20 = 360 + 200 = €560.

Don't fall in that "only €200" crap. I'm not saying that you shouldn't have a smart phone, but you need to understand that this kind of cost for a device like that is unbelievable. The only reason for me to not have one yet is this kind of price.

Good thing is, at this selling rate a pretty good smart phone will have a total cost of €100 in just a few years.

guil

shinfujiwara wrote: »

"isn't that massive?" An iPhone 4 costs the same amount of money of some Vaio laptop for example. And on the other hand, you can get normal phones for free.

Simple O2 plan without phone = €20. Simple O2 plan with iPhone 4 = €40. So, you pay a high amount of money in the beginning (€200, right?) and you still need to pay 20 additional euros during 18 months. 18 x 20 = 360 + 200 = €560.

Don't fall in that "only €200" crap. I'm not saying that you shouldn't have a smart phone, but you need to understand that this kind of cost for a device like that is unbelievable. The only reason for me to not have one yet is this kind of price.

Good thing is, at this selling rate a pretty good smart phone will have a total cost of €100 in just a few years.

theres no point comparing plans if they arent like for like
the simplicity plan for €20 includes 100 mins 100 texts and no data
the advance 140 costs €40 with 150 mins 100 texts and 2gb data
bothe have free o2 calls and texts, also the simplicity plan is a sim only plan, ya could get that if ya already own an iphone with a data add on for €7.50

look at it this way, i got my girlfriend a nokia 6700 using a gold upgrade on the €40 advance plan, it cost €50 for the phone, using the same upgrade for an extra €150 ya could get an iphone 4

so where does all this extra cost come in

BBMcQ

shinfujiwara wrote: »

Simple O2 plan without phone = €20. Simple O2 plan with iPhone 4 = €40. So, you pay a high amount of money in the beginning (€200, right?) and you still need to pay 20 additional euros during 18 months. 18 x 20 = 360 + 200 = €560.

Show me the O2 price plan that offers 150mins, 100 texts, unlimited O2 to O2 calls and texts, and 2 gb of Data for 20 euro and I'll sell my iPhone to you for a fiver.

O2 Simplicity 150 is 30Eur sim only plan and doesn't include data or free O2 to O2 calls or texts.

I could go through a myriad of options here proving the point that the 40euro Advance 150 plan is actually good value (for an O2 plan, not compared to meteor or 3).

Fat_Fingers

I think shinfujiwara is trying to point out that smart phones are currently rip off and profit margin that makers and network operators take are substantial.
Iphone 4 (16Gb) for example costs Apple about € 150 or less , then Apple sells it to us for € 600. Nice margin if you can get it. Most businesses operate on margin of around 4-5% except premium brands retailers and what is considered luxury goods makers .
We have all heard from network operators how smart phones are “subsidised”. Yet we are paying upfront good chunk of money (around 200) and end up with 18 months contacts. How did they sneak in 18 months as norm to replace standard 12 months is crazy. What next 36 months contract? Bloody hell I’m not buying a car! Purchasing smart phone from network operators is not “subsidised”, its not great deal. Its more cost effective to buy unlocked sim free phone.

BBMcQ

Fat_Fingers wrote: »

I think shinfujiwara is trying to point out that smart phones are currently rip off and profit margin that makers and network operators take are substantial.
Iphone 4 (16Gb) for example costs Apple about € 150 or less , then Apple sells it to us for € 600. Nice margin if you can get it. Most businesses operate on margin of around 4-5% except premium brands retailers and what is considered luxury goods makers.

You won't find an investor for anything that's boasting a 4% profit margin! Most venture capital firms look for at least 20-30% gross profit after tax. Sure can's of coke cost about 5cent to produce and it reaches the customer for 1euro! Given those returns if Coca Cola were selling the iPhone it would cost about 2500 euro to buy!

iPhone 4 costs 185 dollars to make (substantially more than other phones in the same bracket) and you can buy it from O2 for 260euro or so. I really don't think its that bad a deal considering the service the phone (or any true smartphone such as Desire etc) adds to your day to day life (Eirtext alone saves me 15euro alone a month! Other great apps include Dart times etc).

I have access to a netbook but I don't have one myself. So for me buying the iPhone 4 and not buying a netbook has made perfect financial sense.

snappieT

stuartmchugh wrote: »

iPhone 4 costs 185 dollars to make

Plus millions upon millions in R&D.

seamus

Fat_Fingers wrote: »

We have all heard from network operators how smart phones are “subsidised”. Yet we are paying upfront good chunk of money (around 200) and end up with 18 months contacts. How did they sneak in 18 months as norm to replace standard 12 months is crazy. What next 36 months contract? Bloody hell I’m not buying a car! Purchasing smart phone from network operators is not “subsidised”, its not great deal. Its more cost effective to buy unlocked sim free phone.

You see this is something I don't entirely understand. A contract doesn't necessarily cost you any more money, depending on how you use your pre-pay phone. OK, you're tied to the operator for 18 months. Big deal. But you're otherwise still going to be using a phone for those 18 months, whether you're on a contract or not. So why not benefit from the subsidised price and save yourself some money? So you're locked into an operator for 18 months, big deal. How often do you change operators anyway?

Look at it this way - you buy a 16GB iP4 from vodafone for €280 + €45/month for 18 months. Total cost over 18 months is €1090. At the end you still have your iP4 and your operator will unlock it. You'll also get about €250 for the phone.

Or, you could buy it simfree from Apple for €600 and use any of the three operators for the next 18 months (which is how long you'll realistically have the iPhone for). 150 calls + 150 texts (forgetting about the data!) on Vodafone pre-pay will cost you €63 credit per month. Over 18 months, your cost will be €1,734.

You can view the contract as a form of hire-purchase agreement on your phone. You pay less upfront because the operator subsidises it on the basis on your future bills, which in turn are much cheaper.

Unless you only top-up by €10 a month or otherwise have a drastic need to be able to get out of contract on a whim, then anyone going for any phone on pre-pay is a complete sucker.

stuartmchugh puts the price of an iPhone at $185. That likely doesn't include the massive amounts of marketing, servicing and R&D which Apple put into these products. Don't confuse markup with profit margin. The markup on an iPhone might be 300%, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the profit margin is 75%.

Kimono-Girl

seamus wrote: »

You see this is something I don't entirely understand. A contract doesn't necessarily cost you any more money, depending on how you use your pre-pay phone. OK, you're tied to the operator for 18 months. Big deal. But you're otherwise still going to be using a phone for those 18 months, whether you're on a contract or not. So why not benefit from the subsidised price and save yourself some money? So you're locked into an operator for 18 months, big deal. How often do you change operators anyway?

Look at it this way - you buy a 16GB iP4 from vodafone for €280 + €45/month for 18 months. Total cost over 18 months is €1090. At the end you still have your iP4 and your operator will unlock it. You'll also get about €250 for the phone.

Or, you could buy it simfree from Apple for €600 and use any of the three operators for the next 18 months (which is how long you'll realistically have the iPhone for). 150 calls + 150 texts (forgetting about the data!) on Vodafone pre-pay will cost you €63 credit per month. Over 18 months, your cost will be €1,734.

i see and agree with your point esp on the not changing your carrier but using Vodafone as an example when researching the iphone 4...

Payg 16gb iphone 4 = €589 + €20 a month for 18 months (qualifies you for free calls and texts)

Bill pay 16gb iphone 4 = €280 + €45 a month for 18 months ( also note on either bill or payg you may be paying more if you use more than the free minutes/payg credit given)


Payg = €949

Bill Pay = €1090




either way At the end you still have your iphone 4 and your operator will unlock it. Only with Payg you can unlock it after 6 months!

seamus

It's actually €30/month gets you free calls and texts (to Vodafone only) and internet on Vodafone, if we're going to be fair. So TCO of that is actually €1,030. And you still have to pay for calls and texts to other networks.

Only with Payg you can unlock it after 6 months!

Even though you've already paid full price for the phone? How generous!

Kimono-Girl

seamus wrote: »

It's actually €30/month gets you free calls and texts (to Vodafone only) and internet on Vodafone, if we're going to be fair. So TCO of that is actually €1,030. And you still have to pay for calls and texts to other networks.

i spend €20 a month on credit (to get the free calls/texts)and never run out despite excessive use of data....most places i go have wifi anyway so i rarely use 3g, bill would be a waste of money for someone like me. everyone is different of course i'm just showing my personal use as an example for pricing.

seamus wrote: »

Even though you've already paid full price for the phone? How generous!

i know :rolleyes: but in fairness they do knock a whopping €10 off apples price and like i said its better then being stuck for 18 months...

BBMcQ

snappieT wrote: »

Plus millions upon millions in R&D.

seamus wrote: »

stuartmchugh puts the price of an iPhone at $185. That likely doesn't include the massive amounts of marketing, servicing and R&D which Apple put into these products. Don't confuse markup with profit margin. The markup on an iPhone might be 300%, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the profit margin is 75%.

Sorry lads meant marginal cost. You would assume Apple would make back research and developments costs pretty quick on these products. Eg. iPad has sold about 3.5million units in 4 months bringing in approx 2.1 billion dollars (average price of $600). Staggering numbers really.

drunkmonkey

I'd question how much they spent on R&D, I'd be surprised If it was over 100 judging by the free bumper offer. The networks pay for the marketing of the iPhone apple don't pay a penny.
185 is a big base cost, who ever came up with that figure was being generous.

shinfujiwara

As said before, my point remains. Don't be fooled gentlemen, despite of the form that you will pay for it, you WILL pay for it! And it will be an amazing amount of money. There is no comparison at all of getting a €40 contract with an iPhone 4, and a €20 with a simple phone that you got. The final savings will be as enormous as a T-Rex. You need to add extra €10/20 because of the 3G plan too, which will bring the costs to another level again.

Now, if it worths this kind of money for a certain person... that's an entire different matter. But you still can't deny that this cost doesn't fit a simple device!

I mean, you can buy 2 goddam Playstation 3 which only one component of the product, the Cell Processor, costed about 2 billion dollars as far as i know and in some countries even the product already been released in the end of 2006, Sony doesn't make any profit selling the console itself. They make profit with games, services, controllers and things like that.

You see my point now? A device like a PS3 is a VERY modern one, a MUCH more expensive one to make, and yet they try to make it as accessible as possible. You could also compare with other products, a big HDTV, an old car, a professional camera, etc.

So i think there is no problem at all about wait till it gets, let's say, fairer. In fact it is what makes more sense to me. As i said before, when you're buying a smart phone you just need to think if the cost of it still worth for you even being that high, if you're willing to pay that amount to stay connected all the time. If yes, then you're doing the right thing i believe.

jeromeof

shinfujiwara wrote: »

As said before, my point remains. Don't be fooled gentlemen, despite of the form that you will pay for it, you WILL pay for it! And it will be an amazing amount of money. There is no comparison at all of getting a €40 contract with an iPhone 4, and a €20 with a simple phone that you got. The final savings will be as enormous as a T-Rex. You need to add extra €10/20 because of the 3G plan too, which will bring the costs to another level again.

Now, if it worths this kind of money for a certain person... that's an entire different matter. But you still can't deny that this cost doesn't fit a simple device!

I mean, you can buy 2 goddam Playstation 3 which only one component of the product, the Cell Processor, costed about 2 billion dollars as far as i know and in some countries even the product already been released in the end of 2006, Sony doesn't make any profit selling the console itself. They make profit with games, services, controllers and things like that.

You see my point now? A device like a PS3 is a VERY modern one, a MUCH more expensive one to make, and yet they try to make it as accessible as possible. You could also compare with other products, a big HDTV, an old car, a professional camera, etc.

So i think there is no problem at all about wait till it gets, let's say, fairer. In fact it is what makes more sense to me. As i said before, when you're buying a smart phone you just need to think if the cost of it still worth for you even being that high, if you're willing to pay that amount to stay connected all the time. If yes, then you're doing the right thing i believe.

As people have already stated here, you need to use a proper smartphone to appreciate it, either an iPhone or a top end Android phone. They aren't really phones, they are portable computers which are always connected with the capability to be a phone also.

As for their costs, its the cost of mobile data that makes the difference (and is the only difference really) between a "simple" type tariff plan, which you must be on to make calls/text on even the most basic phone and any Smartphone. So, using Meteor's prices as an example, Eur20 a month is the basic 18month contract (Bill Pay Connect), but for Eur30 a month you get the same deal but with 1GB of Data, easily enough for a smartphone (assuming you do have say Wifi at home anyway).

So the reality is a smartphone costs, say the initial cost + say Eur180 (Eur10 x 18 months) for the extra 3G data. So, an iPhone might be Eur250 initial cost with a contract or a Samsung Galaxy android phone is around Eur180, so are only paying between Eur350 to Eur400 extra, for something which you will use every day in much more ways than you would have an ordinary phone. Think camera, camcorder, sat nav, ebook reader, internet radio, video player to name but some of the extra uses of a smartphone.

As for the argument that the PS3, that just doesn't make sense. A PS3 is not particular modern and now costs about the same as its list price, read the iSuppli breakdown here => http://www.isuppli.com/teardowns-manufacturing-and-pricing/news/pages/sony-gets-one-step-closer-to-breakeven-point-with-latest-playstation-3-design.aspx
So, it is something like Eur250 per unit.

But when you buy a PS3, there is almost an implicit contract to buy games for it at say Eur50 - Eur60 per game, i.e. sony only sell it because they believe people will buy games each month. I believe the average is something like 10 games over the course of a PS3 lifetime. So, yes you got enjoyment from your PS3 but it probably cost you at least Eur900. For some people a smartphone gives similar but different enjoyment and they are willing to pay for it but it isn't as much as you think. You are also completely tied into Sony's (or Microsoft's or Nintendos) games. While with an iPhone or even more obviously with an Android phone you are not obliged to spend any more money and most stuff apps are free anyway. If an iPhone was completely locked down, where every app cost money or it would only play DRM music purchased in iTunes, etc then apple would probably be giving away the phone.

So, commenting on a smartphone without actually using one is like commenting on a games console without having every played a computer game.