Limerick mayor opposes new bus lanes

dynamick

Mayor bids to block €5m bus route

KATHRYN HAYES

ABOUT 100 residents and business owners packed a specially convened meeting of Limerick City Council yesterday where a debate was held on proposals to block a new €5 million green route for Limerick city.

The Mayor of Limerick, Fine Gael’s Maria Byrne, who is among those opposed to the controversial scheme, called the special meeting where she tabled a motion asking the local authority to consider a “more appropriate route”.

But she faced opposition from a number of corners including from within her own party.

Limerick City Council plans to develop the new public transport corridor from the Crescent Shopping Centre in Dooradoyle into the city centre. Phase one of the project, costing €2.5 million, extends from the borough boundary on the Ballinacurra Road to the gates of Mount Saint Vincent Convent Chapel on O’Connell Avenue.

Phase two, costing €2.4 million, would see the route extended to Mallow Street in the city centre.

In a presentation yesterday Vincent Murray, senior engineer for roads and transportation on Limerick City Council, said the cost of the scheme would be €4.9 million.

more...

Row over proposed new Dooradoyle bus lane. If you wonder how there could be an ideological division in fine gael over a bus lane, remember that Maria Byrne represents South Limerick where this bus lane is located. Kevin Kiely who supports is North Limerick. Presumably the positions will reverse when the time comes to improve anything in Kiely's constituency.

Cookie_Monster

I'd object to it too if it cost €5m just to put a feckin bus lane in

mickydoomsux

I object to her **** haircut and 'duuuurrrrrr' expression on her campaign poster.

markpb

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'd object to it too if it cost €5m just to put a feckin bus lane in

Based on what? Do you know what's involved, how much it will cost or good it will be? Would you prefer they just slapped down some white paint on the road and called it a bus lane?

Cookie_Monster

how can it possibly cost €5m quid to put in 2.6km of buslane?
Map

Though going by the previous thread of 170k per busstop I can see how it ads up.

1.5m for materials, where is the other 1.4m going, wages and plant hire?

markpb

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how can it possibly cost €5m quid to put in 2.6km of buslane?

I'm not familiar with the area or LCC's plans but any new bus lane could consist of:
- road widening
- junction widening
- moving footpaths
- replanting verges
- utility diversion
- road surface strengthening
- upgraded drainage system
- upgraded bus stops (though hopefully not 200k upgraded )
- new power lines for bus stop lighting
- installation of control loops to the junctions and integrating those junctions with a central traffic control system like Scats or Scoot.
- traffic management during construction

foggy_lad

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

how can it possibly cost €5m quid to put in 2.6km of buslane?
Map

Though going by the previous thread of 170k per busstop I can see how it ads up.

1.5m for materials, where is the other 1.4m going, wages and plant hire?

more importantly why is it not being extended to serve the midwestern regional hospital and even the housing estates along ballycummin road?

markpb

foggy_lad wrote: »

more importantly why is it not being extended to serve the midwestern regional hospital and even the housing estates along ballycummin road?

One step at a time maybe?

foggy_lad

markpb wrote: »

One step at a time maybe?

it would be cheaper to get it all done now while labour etc is cheaper and less would have to be spent on consultants architects legal fees etc etc

Cookiemunster

foggy_lad wrote: »

more importantly why is it not being extended to serve the midwestern regional hospital and even the housing estates along ballycummin road?

Cause thats in the county and the county council already built their bus lane years ago. The city / county boundary is at the Crescent shopping center.

foggy_lad

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Cause thats in the county and the county council already built their bus lane years ago. The city / county boundary is at the Crescent shopping center.

it still makes sense though there are a lot of houses and potential customers out there and the hospital. will the two bus lanes meet up?

Cookiemunster

foggy_lad wrote: »

it still makes sense though there are a lot of houses and potential customers out there and the hospital. will the two bus lanes meet up?

If its gets built they will meet up. Both are inbound only lanes. The county bus lane runs from the Raheen Industrial Estate to the Crescent shopping center. The city one will run from there into the city center.
You have to remember also that the city and county councils rarely see eye to eye which has led to the disaster that Limerick is today.

-Chris-

mickydoomsux wrote: »

I object to her **** haircut and 'duuuurrrrrr' expression on her campaign poster.

Really?

mickydoomsux

foggy_lad wrote: »

it would be cheaper to get it all done now while labour etc is cheaper and less would have to be spent on consultants architects legal fees etc etc

Surprisingly not. The way government tender stuff works is that the contractor will usually be paid what previous contractors (often in better econmic times) were paid.

Cookie_Monster

Cookiemunster wrote: »

If its gets built they will meet up. Both are inbound only lanes. .

:eek::rolleyes:

paddyland

I wouldn't trust Fine Gael with anything to do with bus lanes.

Remember Olivia Mitchell, during one of Bertie's giveaway elections, stating that if Fine Gael got in, they would use the bus lanes for car poolers!

Totally unpoliceable, and a disaster towards efficient bus operations.

I'm sure Maria Byrne won't ever have to grubby her substantial behind on a nasty Bus Éireann seat cushion.

Thomas_B

Hi there,

A few of us were at the special meeting of Limerick City Council last night and we were so frustrated by the conduct of some of the Limerick City Councillors that we set up a campaign: Get Limerick Moving

We desperately need better public transport in Limerick, and the bus lane along O'Connell Avenue and Ballinacurra is the first step to achieving this.

Any support would be appreciated, in particular we're asking anyone who cares about this issue to get in touch with their local councillor (list here)

There's also a facebook page you can pass on to people.

We've only got a few weeks until the councillors vote on this for the last time, and the campaign is less than 24 hours old, so any help to spread the word would be appreciated

Cheers!

paddyland

The best of luck with that Thomas B, I think you will need it. From what I remember of this issue arising some time ago, the principal objection was from residents who objected to losing their roadside parking priveleges in favour of the proposed bus lane.

The benefits to thousands of hard pressed commuters, versus the benefits to a couple of residents who like to park their car right outside their door. I suppose these are the same people who park sideways across mother and child spaces at the local supermarket too.

Don't expect politics to win a victory for commonsense. Do Fine Gael wish to be seen as a progressive party in light of the past ten years of Fianna Fáil and a prospective general election in the next year or two? They aren't showing much sign of it in Limerick...

Tragedy

paddyland wrote: »

The benefits to thousands of hard pressed commuters, versus the benefits to a couple of residents who like to park their car right outside their door. I suppose these are the same people who park sideways across mother and child spaces at the local supermarket too.

What the hell is this? A lot of the houses on these streets have no option for off street parking, if you remove on street parking where exactly are they meant to park?

And how does liking to park your car outside your house make you "the same people who park sideways across mother and child spaces"?

Cookie_Monster

Tragedy wrote: »

What the hell is this? A lot of the houses on these streets have no option for off street parking, if you remove on street parking where exactly are they meant to park?

Are the parking on the street itself, half street half footpath or is there a separate strip for parking off the main carriageway? Not familiar so just wondering.

Tragedy

Seperate strip on Balinacurra Road I *think*. Haven't walked along it in over a yar.

Cookie_Monster

Tragedy wrote: »

Seperate strip on Balinacurra Road I *think*. Haven't walked along it in over a yar.

if that's the case then fair enough for them to be annoyed as it the only parking and it an area specifically to park. If they were just using the road itself and/or footpath I'd be inclined to say tough as they should never really be there anyway.

Tragedy

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

if that's the case then fair enough for them to be annoyed as it the only parking and it an area specifically to park. If they were just using the road itself and/or footpath I'd be inclined to say tough as they should never really be there anyway.

The houses along there are quite similar to parts of Rathmines/Rathgar, with the houses being about 10 feet above the level of the street.

Even if you wanted to build a driveway, you'd have a hell of a job.

paddyland

Tragedy wrote: »

What the hell is this? A lot of the houses on these streets have no option for off street parking, if you remove on street parking where exactly are they meant to park?

I lived on a narrow street for four years, which was a clearway twice a day for the peak hours. I had to move my car, whether I liked it or not. I could park anywhere between 200m and 500m away, in any one of three or four adjacent minor streets.

I cannot believe there are NO streets with some limited parking space, away from the main thoroughfare where the bus lane is required.

Hard luck some evening if it is lashing rain and one has to park away around some distant corner, but the benefit of the greater good should still take priority.

RATM

I'd be objecting too if it was costing 5M, what a ridiculous price for a bus lane.

And as usual the traders are up in arms about any remote chance of improving the quality of life of those who use public transport :rolleyes: Self- serving idiots.

Tragedy

paddyland wrote: »

I lived on a narrow street for four years, which was a clearway twice a day for the peak hours. I had to move my car, whether I liked it or not. I could park anywhere between 200m and 500m away, in any one of three or four adjacent minor streets.

That's nice. Did you own the house before the narrow street became a clearway?

I cannot believe there are NO streets with some limited parking space, away from the main thoroughfare where the bus lane is required.

Yes there are, unfortunately they're already chock a block with cars(especially the south circular road which becomes one way due to having cars the entire 1km length of it

but the benefit of the greater good should still take priority.

Indeed, but what has that got to do with your insulting the home owners who don't want the bus lane and saying they're the same kind of inconsiderate people who park in mother and child spaces?
That does your argument lots of good.

I bet you're the kind of person who eats food out of tesco bins.

paddyland

Tragedy wrote: »

I bet you're the kind of person who eats food out of tesco bins.

Perhaps, instead of personalised attacks on other posters, you could give us a list of reasons why a small group of people, sympathy as one might have for them, should take priority over the benefits to a far, far larger amount of people who have to commute every day, and the benefits that might accrue from encouraging a certain number out of cars and thus reducing the number of cars jamming up same streets? Some better reasons than simply their 'entitlement' to park where they wish?

Zoney

Tragedy wrote: »

What the hell is this? A lot of the houses on these streets have no option for off street parking, if you remove on street parking where exactly are they meant to park?

And how does liking to park your car outside your house make you "the same people who park sideways across mother and child spaces"?

On-street parking is only going to be removed on one side, in places. For almost the entire length of the road, one side or the other has off-street parking, and both sides are not at present fully utilised, especially on some sections.

It's a great extravagance to use valuable road space just to provide somewhere for people to lazily abandon their cars rather than bring them into the drive or around the rear of the property to the garage via the laneways. *Only* those without a driveway/rear parking should be parking on the street.

Tragedy

paddyland wrote: »

Perhaps, instead of personalised attacks on other posters,

It wasn't a personal attack, it was showing how stupid your comment was tarring a group of people with a random unpleasant attribute because they had a differing opinion to you.

you could give us a list of reasons why a small group of people, sympathy as one might have for them, should take priority over the benefits to a far, far larger amount of people who have to commute every day, and the benefits that might accrue from encouraging a certain number out of cars and thus reducing the number of cars jamming up same streets? Some better reasons than simply their 'entitlement' to park where they wish?

I see you neither read my post, nor appreciate the irony in what you originally posted and what I quote here.

Huzzah!

Tragedy

Zoney wrote: »

It's a great extravagance to use valuable road space just to provide somewhere for people to lazily abandon their cars rather than bring them into the drive or around the rear of the property to the garage via the laneways. *Only* those without a driveway/rear parking should be parking on the street.

It's suggested that the bus lanes are in use 7:30-9:30 and 16:30-18:30.
That's a bit of a joke. Nowhere in Limerick City is busy by 7:30, and very very few places are still busy at 18:30, but it means the average person living on the street in question and relying on it for parking will have to move their car at 7:30 in the morning(who leaves for work that early in Limerick?) and again, when they come home in the evenings find somewhere to park it until 18:30 when they can move it again.

Again, have you any knowledge of the road in question, or even looked at in google maps? None of the houses on Ballinacurra Road have garages or driveways. The south/eastern side houses have a laneway running the length of them, but having parked in a small laneway off S.Circular Road at night and having seen 30 cars broken into in that time, it's not a viable option unless there's houses looking on to the laneway - and even then, I still wouldn't.
It really isn't.

Thomas_B

Tragedy wrote: »

None of the houses on Ballinacurra Road have garages or driveways.

That's just not true.

dynamick

Tragedy wrote: »

None of the houses on Ballinacurra Road have garages or driveways.

Look at this photo of Ballinacurra Road.



I see:
* plenty of space outside each house to park in the front garden
* some residents already park in the curtilage of their houses, but most park on the street.
* there is rear access for many houses on both sides of the street and lengthy rear gardens

Tragedy

dynamick wrote: »

Look at this photo of Ballinacurra Road.



I see:
* plenty of space outside each house to park in the front garden
* some residents already park in the curtilage of their houses, but most park on the street.
* there is rear access for many houses on both sides of the street and lengthy rear gardens

Yerra, my mistake - it's been almost 3 years since I last walked the road and I don't recall a single driveway on the houses of the inbound side of the roadway.

* plenty of space outside each house to park in the front garden

Which they'll have to pay to develop as a result of this.

* there is rear access for many houses on both sides of the street and lengthy rear gardens

Again, they'll have to pay for this and as stated before, I wouldn't rate off street parking in a non overlooked lane as a viable place for residents to park.
This is Limerick, IME you can't do that without getting broken into.

I'm not opposed to the buslanes, but they should have worked to get local residents on board, had a look at bus lane hours and looked at how much it would cost to compensate each house without a driveway(on a scheme of €5million, could they not have offered €5,000 to each house losing on street parking to smooth things over?)

mikemac

Tragedy wrote: »

could they not have offered €5,000 to each house losing on street parking to smooth things over?)

Never going to happen
It would set a precedent and if the Council build a bus lane in another part of the city then residents will look for the same.

Absolutely no chance of a handout here, they can look for it but won't happen.

Anyway, your car is probably safer off street and it won't cost that much to get tradesmen to put in a driveway

Tragedy

feelingstressed wrote: »

Never going to happen
It would set a precedent and if the Council build a bus lane in another part of the city then residents will look for the same.

Absolutely no chance of a handout here, they can look for it but won't happen.

Anyway, your car is probably safer off street and it won't cost that much to get tradesmen to put in a driveway

Cost to remove topsoil, lay concrete, get tarmac/cobblelock laid and garden relandscaped won't be much? :pac:

I've always preferred having my car in full view on the street, I don't leave any valuables in it and that way they won't be tempted to break in anyway as no-one can see them, as they do if the car's out of view.

mikemac

Tragedy wrote: »

Cost to remove topsoil, lay concrete, get tarmac/cobblelock laid and garden relandscaped won't be much? :pac:

There are some boyo's in the Hiace who would it for ya cheap, boss
Well the tarmac part anyway

But seriously, residents are getting to park for free on the road but they certainly have no entitlement to compensation when the bus lane comes in.

Tragedy

feelingstressed wrote: »

There are some boyo's in the Hiace who would it for ya cheap, boss
Well the tarmac part anyway

But seriously, residents are getting to park for free on the road but they certainly have no entitlement to compensation when the bus lane comes in.

Of course they have no entitlement to the free parking, nor do they have entitlement to compensation.

But getting residents on your side is important in things like this, and they don't seem to have done anything to attend to that.

Hence how residents have banded together and lobbied local councillors, mayor, etc etc.

dynamick

Many bus lanes and cycle paths have been constructed in Dublin with loss of on-street parking. I have never heard of compensation being paid but who knows? It may have happened.

Pinehead

Private homeowners should have no right to any compensation for public works untill the time as the they are the sole upkeepers of the road in question. I is a public road and the development will be of benifit to the general public.

Tragedy

Why do people keep mentioning "rights"?

dowlingm

What's the daytime parking situation like? Could it just be made a clearway on the peakflow side from 0700-0930 (with resident permit only parking on the other side from 11pm with aggressive ticketing/towing to ensure enough space) and a clearway on the other side 1630-1900? Buses could mount front mounted, driver remote-operated cameras so that vehicles parking in the clearway could be reported to the guards.

monument

Tragedy wrote: »

Why do people keep mentioning "rights"?

If you feel you have no rights to parking where the bus lane is going you don't really have much of a point asking for anything do you?

Tragedy

monument wrote: »

If you feel you have no rights to parking where the bus lane is going you don't really have much of a point asking for anything do you?

That's absolutely nonsensical. If this doesn't get the go-ahead because of locals successfully campaigning against it, you'll be left looking silly for that quote

Rights has nothing to do with it, working with and compromising with residents affected by it who will otherwise campaign and petition against it is just good sense.

monument

Tragedy wrote: »

That's absolutely nonsensical. If this doesn't get the go-ahead because of locals successfully campaigning against it, you'll be left looking silly for that quote

Rights has nothing to do with it, working with and compromising with residents affected by it who will otherwise campaign and petition against it is just good sense.

Err... what?

Why would I look silly if locals successfully campaigning against the bus lane? What has my last post got to do with that?

Tragedy

monument wrote: »

Err... what?

Why would I look silly if locals successfully campaigning against the bus lane? What has my last post got to do with that?

Read it again, mayhap you'll grasp it. Mayhap not!

Locals have no legal right to compensation/compromise/anything. Doesn't mean the council shouldn't attempt to work with them to get them, if not on their side, at least not actively fighting them.

Do you have a point? Any point whatsoever? No? Didn't think so!

monument

Tragedy wrote: »

Read it again, mayhap you'll grasp it. Mayhap not!

Locals have no legal right to compensation/compromise/anything. Doesn't mean the council shouldn't attempt to work with them to get them, if not on their side, at least not actively fighting them.

What exactly are you suggesting here? What do you want the council to do?

Tragedy wrote: »

Do you have a point? Any point whatsoever? No? Didn't think so!

I was not trying to make a point, I was just answering the question you were asking about why people keep talking about rights. You still have not answered why I would look silly if locals successfully campaigning against the bus lane.