CSPE & the Teaching Council: the joke continues?

Dionysus

Tell me this isn't true: a degree in politics or sociology is now not good enough to secure registration with the Teaching Council to teach CSPE? Can anybody confirm this?

You need an Irish degree to teach Irish, an English degree to teach English, a geography degree to teach geography and so on. But, in the case of CSPE, you need to choose it as one of your PGDE methodology subjects before the Teaching Council will register you as a teacher? Can anybody confirm this?

During the PGDE, my principal advised me to do the subject methodology for a subject which I did not have to degree level as my degree-level subject, Politics/Sociology, only allowed me to teach CSPE which "is a joke subject; it's a timetable filler that I give to the PE teacher or the like". But, lo and behold, the Teaching Council has now made an exception with CSPE and abandoned the normal necessity for one to have a degree as the basis of registration for teaching and stated you need to have a teacher qualification in CSPE to teach it?

No chance that they'll tell me that I can register with them to teach subjects which I don't have to degree level? No, I need a full degree for them but I only need a teaching qualification for this pisshead subject CSPE, where I actually have the formerly required politics/sociology degree.

Pathetic.

/ end rant

dory

As far as I was aware, a degree was never good enough on it's own to register. I was told having a degree in Irish was not good enough to teach (as you seem to suggest) but that I'd also need to select it as a teaching methodology in the PGDE.

I can't believe your principal told you not to do a subject in the PGDE that you have in your degree. I think you should direct your anger at him/her.

I don't think I even understand what you're saying anyway. You mean you did say, English and Irish in your PGDE but don't have a degree in them? A relevant degree is the most basic thing you need to teach before thinking about the PGDE.

peanuthead

Dionysus wrote: »

Tell me this isn't true: a degree in politics or sociology is now not good enough to secure registration with the Teaching Council to teach CSPE? Can anybody confirm this?

You need an Irish degree to teach Irish, an English degree to teach English, a geography degree to teach geography and so on. But, in the case of CSPE, you need to choose it as one of your PGDE methodology subjects before the Teaching Council will register you as a teacher? Can anybody confirm this?

During the PGDE, my principal advised me to do the subject methodology for a subject which I did not have to degree level as my degree-level subject, Politics/Sociology, only allowed me to teach CSPE which "is a joke subject; it's a timetable filler that I give to the PE teacher or the like". But, lo and behold, the Teaching Council has now made an exception with CSPE and abandoned the normal necessity for one to have a degree as the basis of registration for teaching and stated you need to have a teacher qualification in CSPE to teach it?

No chance that they'll tell me that I can register with them to teach subjects which I don't have to degree level? No, I need a full degree for them but I only need a teaching qualification for this pisshead subject CSPE, where I actually have the formerly required politics/sociology degree.

Pathetic.

/ end rant

Hey there, sorry to hear of your troubles.
But you don't only need the teaching qualification for CSPE - you need it along with the degree. had you tried to register as a teacher last year before doing the course, you wouldn't have been able to register for any subjects afaik.

However, don't worry too much about it all. There is some point to what your principal has said to you. Being registered to teach CSPE by the teaching council means that you are eligible to be given a PERMANENT position in that particular subject. I don't believe that there are permanent positions available in CSPE. So therefore, in the case of your principal - he will give the hours to other teachers to 'fill in' their timetable. I would imagine that for a principal that works that way (a lot of them) the fact that you have Politics at degree level would make you a more attractive choice.

To be honest, in a school like the one you're in, having yourself recognised will not make a blind bit of difference, sounds like you will still get the hours.

What he/she was trying to do in telling you to take a third methodology that you don't have in your degree was trying to expand your options, as taking that third methodology, although you are not registered again, may lead to you getting hours in this subject to fill up your timetable.

I understand that the teaching council are trying to get rid of this kind of thing and now want everyone recognised to teach the subjects they teach - which is only fair to be honest too. We have Spanish teachers teaching maths and maths teachers teaching religion etc.. in our place!! Sounds ridiculous!

However I am sure there is a way to become recognised. There has to be as I will be doing a part time undergrad next year and have no methods for this particular subject so I will be soon making enquiries about that.

Hate to jump on the TC bandwagon, but I'm not looking forward to calling them - have never found them helpful at all.

dory wrote: »

As far as I was aware, a degree was never good enough on it's own to register. I was told having a degree in Irish was not good enough to teach (as you seem to suggest) but that I'd also need to select it as a teaching methodology in the PGDE.

I can't believe your principal told you not to do a subject in the PGDE that you have in your degree. I think you should direct your anger at him/her.

I don't think I even understand what you're saying anyway. You mean you did say, English and Irish in your PGDE but don't have a degree in them? A relevant degree is the most basic thing you need to teach before thinking about the PGDE.

Sorry but no. It is not Dionysus' principal's fault that he/she chose to take his advice and I'm sure she would agree with that herself.

Dionysus

dory wrote: »

As far as I was aware, a degree was never good enough on it's own to register. I was told having a degree in Irish was not good enough to teach (as you seem to suggest) but that I'd also need to select it as a teaching methodology in the PGDE.

According to this this isn't the case. However, it will be necessary to have a teaching qualification from 2013: 'A teacher education qualification will be a requirement from 1 April 2013 in accordance with Regulation 4 of the Teaching Council [Registration] Regulations 2009 for teachers wishing to register on the basis of qualifications in other approved subjects.' (importantly, the necessity for a teaching qualification "will not apply to a person applying to be entered on the Register as a teacher in a VEC school until after 01 April 2013 (with the exception of the curricular subjects [e.g. CSPE] where the Council requires a specific methodology)."
Furthermore, this regulation only came into place in 2009. (Source: http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/_fileupload/TC_Legislation/Registration_Regulations_2009_90665047.pdf [p.13])

At present, according to the above link, a teaching qualification is only necessary for the following subjects:

Art
CSPE
Music
Religious Education
Physical Education
Engineering (Metalwork - Junior Cert)
Technology (Technical Graphics - Junior Cert)
Home Economics
Construction Studies

If I'm adding two and two and not getting five this means that if you have a degree in Irish, for example, in 2010 but not a PGDE methodology qualification in the subject you can be registered to teach it with the Teaching Council. However, if you first ('enter') seek recognition for your degree with the TC after April 2013, you will need a PGDE methodology in Irish.


Furthermore, according to the same link, the teaching qualification requirement only applies to VEC/Community/Comprehensive schools: "In order to be entered on the Register on the basis of qualifications in post-primary teaching, applicants must comply with the Teaching Council registration requirements as set out in the Teaching Council [Registration] Regulations 2009 Regulation 4: a recognised third level degree, consisting of at least three years of full-time study or equivalent, and, where seeking registration for the purposes of teaching in the voluntary secondary, community or comprehensive sectors" an approved teacher education qualification directed towards First to Sixth Years (typically students in the 12 to 18 year age range)."

dory wrote: »

I can't believe your principal told you not to do a subject in the PGDE that you have in your degree.

Maybe because he was in a fee-paying school and the requirement for a teaching qualification in CSPE, according to the above link, does not apply to it?

dory wrote: »

I don't think I even understand what you're saying anyway. You mean you did say, English and Irish in your PGDE but don't have a degree in them?

I have two First Year subjects, both of which I am returning to do degrees in. I don't expect recognition until I have the degree in them. However, according to the above links if I had either of those subjects to degree level now I would be registered with the Teaching Council to teach them without a teaching qualification (which is needed from 2013), whereas CSPE is one of the few (nine, according to the TC link) subjects where this does not apply.

dory

Ok fair enough, work away on that basis. I'm just telling you how it is in my school. We have never given anyone anything over a few odd hours in any subject they do not have a degree in, and you'd want the PGDE for a permanent job.

Go by those guidelines all you like, I'm just saying how one in practice gets a job. But I see you're going for a degree now so you'll be fine.

ytareh

More TC Farce !Sorry for your trouble OP

1 A monkey could teach CSPE
2 The sooner this quango /disaster /jobs for the girls and boys club is disbanded the better .The things they are taking money from and THIS still exists .

dodododo

Dionysus wrote: »

According to this this isn't the case. However, it will be necessary to have a teaching qualification from 2013: 'A teacher education qualification will be a requirement from 1 April 2013 in accordance with Regulation 4 of the Teaching Council [Registration] Regulations 2009 for teachers wishing to register on the basis of qualifications in other approved subjects.' (importantly, the necessity for a teaching qualification "will not apply to a person applying to be entered on the Register as a teacher in a VEC school until after 01 April 2013 (with the exception of the curricular subjects [e.g. CSPE] where the Council requires a specific methodology)."
Furthermore, this regulation only came into place in 2009. (Source: http://www.teachingcouncil.ie/_fileupload/TC_Legislation/Registration_Regulations_2009_90665047.pdf [p.13])

At present, according to the above link, a teaching qualification is only necessary for the following subjects:

Art
CSPE
Music
Religious Education
Physical Education
Engineering (Metalwork - Junior Cert)
Technology (Technical Graphics - Junior Cert)
Home Economics
Construction Studies

If I'm adding two and two and not getting five this means that if you have a degree in Irish, for example, in 2010 but not a PGDE methodology qualification in the subject you can be registered to teach it with the Teaching Council. However, if you first ('enter') seek recognition for your degree with the TC after April 2013, you will need a PGDE methodology in Irish.


Furthermore, according to the same link, the teaching qualification requirement only applies to VEC/Community/Comprehensive schools: "In order to be entered on the Register on the basis of qualifications in post-primary teaching, applicants must comply with the Teaching Council registration requirements as set out in the Teaching Council [Registration] Regulations 2009 Regulation 4: a recognised third level degree, consisting of at least three years of full-time study or equivalent, and, where seeking registration for the purposes of teaching in the voluntary secondary, community or comprehensive sectors" an approved teacher education qualification directed towards First to Sixth Years (typically students in the 12 to 18 year age range)."




Maybe because he was in a fee-paying school and the requirement for a teaching qualification in CSPE, according to the above link, does not apply to it?




I have two First Year subjects, both of which I am returning to do degrees in. I don't expect recognition until I have the degree in them. However, according to the above links if I had either of those subjects to degree level now I would be registered with the Teaching Council to teach them without a teaching qualification (which is needed from 2013), whereas CSPE is one of the few (nine, according to the TC link) subjects where this does not apply.

I am fairly sure you have taken some info out of context there. I think some of the quotes you have put up are in reference to the VEC sector only if you look at the same teaching council page the first 2 paragraphs give qualification info for other 2nd level schools.

As far as I am aware yes a degree is now and up until 2013 acceptable to register as a teacher in a VEC (with the exception of subjects listed which require a full teacher qualification). So yes IF you had a degree in your 2 subjects you could now be registered as a teacher but ONLY in the VEC sector, and after 2013 would also require a teacher qualification with your degree to register

peanuthead

AFAIK you do not 'register' with the VEC so to speak, you just receive a contract. Hope so as I never remember 'registering'

dodododo

peanuthead wrote: »

AFAIK you do not 'register' with the VEC so to speak, you just receive a contract. Hope so as I never remember 'registering'

Not with the VEC, register as a teacher with the Teaching Council!

roe_cat

just to verify - does this mean that from 2013 someone with three eligible subjects is expected to redo the pgde (you can only do methodologies for 2 subjects in 1 year afaik) if they want to get registered for their third subject?
also what about minority subjects that aren't covered in the pgde?

this seems to be what people are saying - but I have to say I don't quite see that from the Teaching Council site.

Lord TSC

For the record, I do not have a degree in CSPE but I did do the methodologies (since I had to do a second one along with English).
The teaching council did not let me register as a CSPE teacher though as I did not have a degree that would allow me to register as such.

Chikcer1013

Hi

I am wondering about my eligibility to teach CSPE. I am just starting the PDE
I studied sociology in first year as part of my undergrad degree. If I complete a teaching module in CSPE will this ensure that I can be registered with the teaching council to teach CSPE? And if not why not?

Last thing I want to do is waste my time doing a module if I cant teach it after doing it.

Boober Fraggle

Chikcer1013 wrote: »

I studied sociology in first year as part of my undergrad degree. If I complete a teaching module in CSPE will this ensure that I can be registered with the teaching council to teach CSPE? And if not why not?

Last thing I want to do is waste my time doing a module if I cant teach it after doing it.

You would not be qualified in it because you would not have a degree in sociology or politics. The degree and the teaching qualification are both needed to be recognised.

In practice though, you would easily get hours teaching it alongside your other subject, so it is still worth having the methodology done.

Crazyteacher

Often colleges recommend a person do do the methodology in CSPE if they haven't a second subject to degree level but the teaching council only recognises a subject if its studied to degree level. For eg. In ucd at present you need two methodology modules ( of 5 credits each) to complete the 60 credits of the PDE. Often they get people with only one subject such as Geography so they need to take a second methodology in CSPE to make it up.

Chikcer1013

Thanks Guys

Seems a bit mad to that you have to have a degree in sociology or politics to teach it considering it is only taught up until 3rd year. I have two subjects History and Geography but with the reforms coming I wanted to add another subject. If I wanted to add another subject would I have to do a full degree in that subject?

t1ach

Hi everyone
I am currently in the process of trying to register for with the teaching council for the second time. I have a degree in Sociology and Psychology and a recognised teaching qualification in Sociology and English from the UK. I tried to register in 2010 and was told not to bother wasting my money(quite literally!) because I only have a postgraduate qualification in English so that was out and I could only register for CSPE if I had a subject methodology in it. I have since been back on to them to be told that as I took Sociology as my subject methodology as well as having it as a degree I would be able to to register and was given poor advice the last time. So here I am trying again.
I am also going back to do another degree in September with DCU in English and History. I asked the teaching council if I would need to do another PGDE in those subject methodologies to register and was told no, however, reading comments here it sounds like English might be OK as I do have a subject methodology in it but that I couldn't register for History? Would that be right? If so does anyone know of ways for qualified teachers to get subject methodologies as professional development. You can do degrees part time and online now so I am wondering if a teacher later goes on to another degree during their career but obviously hasn't done it as part of their teaching qualification you would imagine you could take a subject methodology as a part time module somewhere? Anyone know anything?
Thanks for your help