Is Itunes and Downlaoding in General

Orando Broom

Killing good albums.

An awful lot of records I've listened to from the last three or four years have been patchy at best. Two or three standout tracks and the rest is just by the numbers filler/ just plain garbage.

Is the proliferation of downloadable music seeing bands put a load of energy into a standout track to get noticed/itunes sales and ignore making a decent album? The focus seems to have shifted from producing eleven or twelve good songs and creating an even narrative through the music because it is no longer necessary to just creating a couple of monster smash hits and letting them run the show hoping eight to ten songs will be brought along on the coat-tails.

Is the album dead? Should bands now just release single after single and let the general public tailor the albums to thier personal preferences?

MilanPan!c

Orando Broom wrote: »

Killing good albums.

An awful lot of records I've listened to from the last three or four years have been patchy at best. Two or three standout tracks and the rest is just by the numbers filler/ just plain garbage.

Is the proliferation of downloadable music seeing bands put a load of energy into a standout track to get noticed/itunes sales and ignore making a decent album? The focus seems to have shifted from producing eleven or twelve good songs and creating an even narrative through the music because it is no longer necessary to just creating a couple of monster smash hits and letting them run the show hoping eight to ten songs will be brought along on the coat-tails.

Is the album dead? Should bands now just release single after single and let the general public tailor the albums to thier personal preferences?

Some bands are already doing that...

smokedeels

It's nothing different from the emergence of MTV in the 1980's and great albums still got released that decade.

Sure in the 1950/60's it was common once a band got a hit-single on the radio that an album of covers and filler material would be thrown together in a hurry. Some cracking albums then too.

There has been some great albums this year when download sales have never been higher.

imo the 00/10s have been better than the 90's for albums, and the 1990's had no new sales devices as the Zeitgeist.

pappyodaniel

I don't think the standard has dropped at all. I just think that we, as music fans have been over 'saturated' with SO much new music that we don't spend enough time with the album. There was a time when I'd buy a new album and I would sit in my room and carefully listen to every track and getting almost intimately familiar with it, knowing everything about it i.e the names of every band member, where it was recorded, who produced it etc.

Nowadays, I just don't put the time or effort into it, I couldn't tell you the basics like the names of each track. Back then I'd buy one album a week or fortnight and cherished it, sitting on the bus on the way home, reading the inlay and bursting with excitement until I got to play it. Now I might have between 5-10 albums to listen to so each album only gets a fraction of the attention I used to give. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the easy availability of music, but you just don't get the same satisfaction when everything is just a mouse-click away compared to back in the day, going into your local music shop and getting the assistant to specially order you an album by an alt/indie band who were not too popular and having to wait a couple of weeks to get it.

Maybe I'm just an eg of a cynical old man, "well back in my day bla bla bla....."

Shakey_jake

pappyodaniel wrote: »

I don't think the standard has dropped at all. I just think that we, as music fans have been over 'saturated' with SO much new music that we don't spend enough time with the album. There was a time when I'd buy a new album and I would sit in my room and carefully listen to every track and getting almost intimately familiar with it, knowing everything about it i.e the names of every band member, where it was recorded, who produced it etc.

Nowadays, I just don't put the time or effort into it, I couldn't tell you the basics like the names of each track. Back then I'd buy one album a week or fortnight and cherished it, sitting on the bus on the way home, reading the inlay and bursting with excitement until I got to play it. Now I might have between 5-10 albums to listen to so each album only gets a fraction of the attention I used to give. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the easy availability of music, but you just don't get the same satisfaction when everything is just a mouse-click away compared to back in the day, going into your local music shop and getting the assistant to specially order you an album by an alt/indie band who were not too popular and having to wait a couple of weeks to get it.

Maybe I'm just an eg of a cynical old man, "well back in my day bla bla bla....."

Completely agree, i used to do the exact same thing. Also id like to make the point that just because everyone can pick up a guitar and start a band (seems like everyone is in a band these days!!) doesn't mean they should!

smokedeels

I agree with the last two posts, imo people - in particular the 18-35 demographic - have been spoilt by a retrospective view of past decades of music. With the fat trimmed off by compilations/best of lists it produces the cliché that "music in the 2k's isn't as good as x decade", it is, you've just got to do the digging yourself. It's flooded, heavily advertised, like any form of modern media, but the gems are there.

Orando Broom

Shakey_jake wrote: »

Completely agree, i used to do the exact same thing. Also id like to make the point that just because everyone can pick up a guitar and start a band (seems like everyone is in a band these days!!) doesn't mean they should!

Can't agree with that. It's up to the consumer to separate the wheat from the chaff. The musician should not have the conceit to believe he/she can arbitrate what should be considered good or bad.

Sir Graball

pappyodaniel wrote: »

I don't think the standard has dropped at all. I just think that we, as music fans have been over 'saturated' with SO much new music that we don't spend enough time with the album. There was a time when I'd buy a new album and I would sit in my room and carefully listen to every track and getting almost intimately familiar with it, knowing everything about it i.e the names of every band member, where it was recorded, who produced it etc.

Nowadays, I just don't put the time or effort into it, I couldn't tell you the basics like the names of each track. Back then I'd buy one album a week or fortnight and cherished it, sitting on the bus on the way home, reading the inlay and bursting with excitement until I got to play it. Now I might have between 5-10 albums to listen to so each album only gets a fraction of the attention I used to give. Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the easy availability of music, but you just don't get the same satisfaction when everything is just a mouse-click away compared to back in the day, going into your local music shop and getting the assistant to specially order you an album by an alt/indie band who were not too popular and having to wait a couple of weeks to get it.

Maybe I'm just an eg of a cynical old man, "well back in my day bla bla bla....."

Absolutely agree!! When I first started listening to 'indie' stuff Joy Division , Fall, etc back in the dim distant past it was almost impossible to get and the radio was your only access with guys like John Peel and Dave Fanning. Information and access was so limited and bands didnt have the exposure they have today! I think we just took more time over listening and soaking up any piece of information we could get about bands, songs etc. Now as you rightly say a mouse click does it all!! I think the story behind the music or band not being available makes for more interesting and discerning listening imo. Sorry for blabbin' on

palethinboy

yeah if your finding that decent albums are not out there now then you are listening to the wrong albums or not spending enough time getting into an album. there is loads of amazing stuff out there

Orando Broom

palethinboy wrote: »

yeah if your finding that decent albums are not out there now then you are listening to the wrong albums or not spending enough time getting into an album. there is loads of amazing stuff out there

Really?

I've spent the last two years trawling the wrong albums sections of music stores and wrong album websites. You're right there is no decent music there!

The wrong album magazines really don't help much either.

I must switch to decent album sites form now on.

Thanks!!!

Android 666

Orando Broom wrote: »

Really?

I've spent the last two years trawling the wrong albums sections of music stores and wrong album websites. You're right there is no decent music there!

The wrong album magazines really don't help much either.

I must switch to decent album sites form now on.

Thanks!!!

I think this gives a good overview on why you might not think there's as many good albums out there anymore:
http://3min49sec.blogspot.com/2010/08/stuck-or-obsession-cessastion.html

It certainly rang true for me on a fair few points. Growing old's a bitch…

palethinboy

Orando Broom wrote: »

Really?

I've spent the last two years trawling the wrong albums sections of music stores and wrong album websites. You're right there is no decent music there!

The wrong album magazines really don't help much either.

I must switch to decent album sites form now on.

Thanks!!!

Maybe it's not the music, maybe it's you

Orando Broom

palethinboy wrote: »

Maybe it's not the music, maybe it's you

No, I prefer your first answer.

Miguel_Sanchez

Orando Broom wrote: »

No, I prefer your first answer.

So did I.


Let's keep this civil folks.

palethinboy

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

So did I.


Let's keep this civil folks.

what's not civil about that!?

Look, there is heaps of good music out there. If he's finding that there is not maybe it is something to do with him on a personal level, getting older, maturing, downloading instead of buying records, listening on ipod instead of stereo, less free time, other priorities, who knows. i refuse to beleive that there is just no good music out there

Miguel_Sanchez

palethinboy wrote: »

what's not civil about that!?

That was a general note for the thread.

Valmont

I don't think so, they sound fine to me.

Shakey_jake

I have to say i agree with a lot of the posts on this thread, ive always had to get my hands dirty to find good new music even before the downloading phenomenon. The idea that theres no good music anymore is ridiculous, theres always gunna be good music, you just need to find it.

What i do feel fairly strong about is the amount of new music available, we have been over saturated to the point where i feel the quality filter has been dropped. I think its fairly true to say that people dont really have much opinions on music anymore, everything seems to be either good or ok. I never hear many people saying "such and such an album is rubbish dont touch it"

Which kinda leads me on to the rolling stone writer Chris R. Weingartens rant about blogging. Although not directly related to the topic of this thread i think he raises some good points.


http://vodpod.com/watch/1778993-christopher-r-weingarten-1000timesyes-music-writer-rollingstone-com-and-village-voice-at-the

Android 666

Shakey_jake wrote: »

I have to say i agree with a lot of the posts on this thread, ive always had to get my hands dirty to find good new music even before the downloading phenomenon. The idea that theres no good music anymore is ridiculous, theres always gunna be good music, you just need to find it.

What i do feel fairly strong about is the amount of new music available, we have been over saturated to the point where i feel the quality filter has been dropped. I think its fairly true to say that people dont really have much opinions on music anymore, everything seems to be either good or ok. I never hear many people saying "such and such an album is rubbish dont touch it"

Which kinda leads me on to the rolling stone writer Chris R. Weingartens rant about blogging. Although not directly related to the topic of this thread i think he raises some good points.


http://vodpod.com/watch/1778993-christopher-r-weingarten-1000timesyes-music-writer-rollingstone-com-and-village-voice-at-the

This a good rebuttal to some of the points Weingarten's criticism about blogs:

http://popdose.com/jesus-of-cool-dont-believe-dont-believe-the-hype-machine/

Miguel_Sanchez

What Orando Broom is saying though is not that there's no good music out there rather that downloading is killing good albums.

In some respects he has a point, you see whole albums doing well off the back of one single that has been pushed on iTunes, through blogs etc. etc. and the album as a whole isn't up to the same standard.

However I think this may be an old argument moving on to new turf. In the 80's I wonder did people argue that MTV and the rise of the music video would kill off the album?

I think there are still tremendous albums out there though and there will continue to be great albums released because there are musicians who really care about their artistic output. They want their music to be the best it can possibly be.

Now, often times, these artists aren't the most commercially successful but I'm not sure if that's just my personal taste coming through (a lot of the stuff I listen to doesn't sell huge amounts, I can still see a lot of my favourite bands in Tripod, Crawdaddy and Whelan's as opposed to the O2 and the RDS) or if it is the bands and singers in the niche ends of the music world that really put more work into their output.

From this year's releases I think that Joanna Newsom, Menomena and LCD Soundsystem have all produced album albums - pieces that work as a whole, not just a few standout tracks strung together with filler that will be skipped past more often than not.

sprinkles

If anything downloading and the ease at which music is available to me nowadays has opened me up to more and more great artists that previously I would never have found. In that respect I spend less time with each album but I have a far more varied palette. I'll listen to a hell of a lot more artists this way but I tend to pick a handful to really get into. They obviously tend to be the best of the wide selection of music I'm listening to which in turn tends to mean that they are of high quality. In the past year I've "discovered" music that I would be willing to bet I will think of as classic in years to come and still smile when I hear it play.

There are a certain number of labels that will push a hit single and hope to sell albums off the back of it but surely downloading has reduced their ability to do even that? If a hit song comes out you buy the song for e1, rather than forking out 3 - 5e on the cd single or even more taking a punt on the album.

Bottom line is; musicians are out there to make music, same as always. Downloading and the proliferation of the likes of youtube/lala/Last FM etc can help new artists reach their target audience a lot quicker. Given the relative ease at which this is possible it's harder to get recognised and thus only the cream will rise to the top.

The method in which music is delivered to the paying public will not influence the creativity of musicians.

Shakey_jake

sprinkles wrote: »

Bottom line is; musicians are out there to make music, same as always. Downloading and the proliferation of the likes of youtube/lala/Last FM etc can help new artists reach their target audience a lot quicker. Given the relative ease at which this is possible it's harder to get recognised and thus only the cream will rise to the top.

The method in which music is delivered to the paying public will not influence the creativity of musicians.

Are you serious?? I wish musicians where out there just to make music. These days especially with lower level bands they have to be everything, they have to work in a business like fashion and I think much of the problem at the moment is bands are forced into being businessmen, which I don't think most people in bands, really want to be.

Independent bands succeed or fail on the basis of their business acumen rather than their music. Plus they have to hold down day jobs. Do you have any idea how much recording in a decent studio costs?? How much it costs to have your own rehearsal space?? Rent a van for touring?? not to mention food and accommodation while on the road! and at the end of it be the creative and best band you can be??

Orando Broom

Shakey_jake wrote: »

Are you serious?? I wish musicians where out there just to make music. These days especially with lower level bands they have to be everything, they have to work in a business like fashion and I think much of the problem at the moment is bands are forced into being businessmen, which I don't think most people in bands, really want to be.

Independent bands succeed or fail on the basis of their business acumen rather than their music. Plus they have to hold down day jobs. Do you have any idea how much recording in a decent studio costs?? How much it costs to have your own rehearsal space?? Rent a van for touring?? not to mention food and accommodation while on the road! and at the end of it be the creative and best band you can be??

Band that marry both succeed. That has always been the reality. Cramming half a field of charley up your nose after one album is a sure fire way out of the industry. Look at how hard a band like Guided By Voices worked yet they lacked the business accumen (or chose to ignore it); it didn't diminish the appeal of their albums they can rightly be regarded as having a huge cult following.

conversely you can be the most cohernet, cohesive business unit but if your songs are ****e you won't succeed. There is a middle ground, your opinion is as quick a road to failure as being a ruibbish musician. Bands nowadays need both.

U2 had it Rolling Stones had it, Kiss had it.

Indie bands could do worse than look at those types of bands for a degree of inspiration on how to ensure your music can be released.

for the record I have discovered far more music because of the internet stuff I would never, ever have touched had I to buy the album. I suppose it's swings and roundabouts.

maccored

The album era has long, long passed us by. Filler has been rife for manys a year at this stage - one or two good tunes, and the rest crap.

IMO, selling singles/downloads rather than full albums can only be a good thing, as each tune has to stand on its own. Bands are finding it harder to sell crap to people as the crap tunes are getting harder to hide - before they just stuck it on an album and you wouldnt hear it til you bought it. Now people can preview everything and if its is crap, they wont buy the album as a while.

In saying that, since the upsurge in downloading started a few years back, more bands are releasing albums on vinyl and many independent bands are releasing their own albums. theres people like Frank Black releasing good albums every year. There ARE still many good albums being released. Its a matetr of finding them (which was always the case)

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

What Orando Broom is saying though is not that there's no good music out there rather that downloading is killing good albums.

In some respects he has a point, you see whole albums doing well off the back of one single that has been pushed on iTunes, through blogs etc. etc. and the album as a whole isn't up to the same standard.

However I think this may be an old argument moving on to new turf. In the 80's I wonder did people argue that MTV and the rise of the music video would kill off the album?

I think there are still tremendous albums out there though and there will continue to be great albums released because there are musicians who really care about their artistic output. They want their music to be the best it can possibly be.

Now, often times, these artists aren't the most commercially successful but I'm not sure if that's just my personal taste coming through (a lot of the stuff I listen to doesn't sell huge amounts, I can still see a lot of my favourite bands in Tripod, Crawdaddy and Whelan's as opposed to the O2 and the RDS) or if it is the bands and singers in the niche ends of the music world that really put more work into their output.

From this year's releases I think that Joanna Newsom, Menomena and LCD Soundsystem have all produced album albums - pieces that work as a whole, not just a few standout tracks strung together with filler that will be skipped past more often than not.

sprinkles

Shakey_jake wrote: »

Are you serious?? I wish musicians where out there just to make music. These days especially with lower level bands they have to be everything, they have to work in a business like fashion and I think much of the problem at the moment is bands are forced into being businessmen, which I don't think most people in bands, really want to be.

Independent bands succeed or fail on the basis of their business acumen rather than their music. Plus they have to hold down day jobs. Do you have any idea how much recording in a decent studio costs?? How much it costs to have your own rehearsal space?? Rent a van for touring?? not to mention food and accommodation while on the road! and at the end of it be the creative and best band you can be??

Very serious.. why would I say it if I didn't believe it? I happen to know exactly how much a recording studio costs, and how much a rehearsal place costs and to be honest I don't really see your point. These things always cost money so by that logic no musicians ever created music for the love of doing so :rolleyes:

There's plenty of bands out there making music for the sake of music, and to be honest you don't even need to look very hard to find them.

Dan Mangan, Edwarde Sharpe and the Magnetic Zeros, Owen Pallett... I could go on. They all use twitter, facebook and youtube to promote themselves and have relied to a certain extent on fans spreading the word about them.