Overuse of the Screwjob Finish

The Volt

It always used to bother me but it's started to do my head in on Raw with our very own Sheamus as champion. It appears that WWE have a policy where it would be detrimental to one's character/momentum for one to actually lose a match of importance. Look at that Summerslam match between Orton and Sheamus. It was a decent title match and Sheamus hit the best Brough Kick I've ever seen. Orton had to kick out though. Would a loss there have hurt his momentum? Perhaps a smidgen but not a great amount. Plus, it would have put Sheamus over a good bit.

Then flashback to the first Raw after Fatal 4-Way. Cena's rematch, Sheamus dominates from start to finish and looks like he's on his way to a clean victory but Nexus interfere.

I'm only using Sheamus as the main example here but shouldn't WWE be promoting the idea of a competitive main event card where it's acceptable for a star to lose once in a while without harming their credentials?

DM_7

Nice one Volt, I was thinking about this the other day after the Sheamus v Orton Match too.

WWE showed Summerslam moments in the build up this year. One was Austin v Taker. They showed how JR built up how great both guys were. Building up the match. Austin eventually beat the dead man but neither was hurt as they were made into a big deal before during and after the match.

The other one was Bulldog v Hart. They put on a long match where neither guy could put the other away, eventually Bulldog reversed Brets sunset flip and won. Again both guys looked like stars as they had a good back and forth match. WWE are taking the lazy way out too often.

If Sheamus beat Cena clean, even on RAW after the cage match, then he would be a big enough star for WWE to have him beat Orton or lose to Orton without either guy being hurt. I remember when WWE had Swagger beat Matt Hardy for the ECW title, hardy's head was hit off the exposed turn buckle (I think i remember that right!), something like this could of been done with Cena Sheamus just to help the Summerslam match.

The strange thing is WWE put little value in people win loss record so its escapes me why they need to have stupid count out/DQ ends so often in title matches.

glenjamin

The reason behind that is simple. They want to keep the belt on Sheamus while making Orton/Cena still look strong. I think it's stupid tbh. I've always hated interference in matches and at the moment (SD in particular) there's an overuse of DQ finishes to keep both wrestlers looking strong.

If they really want to put over a new main eventer then they have to give him a clean victory over one of the current main eventers. Although Sheamus has beaten Orton twice, Cena twice and Triple H once none of them have been clean one on one single pinfall/submission matches.

Rjd2

They want Sheamus to get over, but Orton keeping his heat is the biggest priority of the feud. Its tepid booking I suppose, but I have grown used to it. Guys like Punk and Swagger had the same luck, they were booked to look competitive but not as strong as Vince's chosen few.

DM_7

Rjd2 wrote: »

They want Sheamus to get over, but Orton keeping his heat is the biggest priority of the feud. Its tepid booking I suppose, but I have grown used to it. Guys like Punk and Swagger had the same luck, they were booked to look competitive but not as strong as Vince's chosen few.

I think they could still so better. Off the top of my head, Have Big Red kick Orton in the nuts when the refs not looking,then kick him oton in the before getting the pin. Heel heat stays, he gets a win and Orton gets a reason to go after Sheamus again.

Mr.Nice Guy

I'm not as big a fan of face Orton as others are but having Sheamus beat Orton clean would have been a TERRIBLE move. They are positioning Orton as the next top star after Cena so to have him lose clean would totally derail his momentum. Having Orton lose via Sheamus cheating is a different story and that's the finish I was hoping for at Summerslam. I agree there is an overuse of the DQ finish to keep feuds going and I think at PPV events it's particularly disappointing.

Butch Cassidy

Correct me if I'm wrong but did NWA/WCW not book heels to beat faces clean way back pre-Bischoff? (perhaps when Dusty wasn't booking) It can't be that bad a thing really. I'd love to know when at what point in wrestling history did the dreaded non-finish via count out or DQ become a standard device. Used once or twice every blue moon it can whet the appetite for a bigger pay off match but overdone and I think you just bore the audience.

Yeah overuse of intereference and non-finishes or Dusty finishes are awful.

Jolt2007

Butch Cassidy wrote: »

I'd love to know when at what point in wrestling history did the dreaded non-finish via count out or DQ become a standard device.

I'd imagine it would have been at the start of the Monday Night Wars when main eventers would wrestle on free tv, to make people pay for the PPV match to see an ending. But it has become ridiculous how often it's been used on tv and PPV these days.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only half decent name that I recall Sheamus pinning clean yet is Christian, and maybe MVP if you consider him to still have a decent name. I was actually thinking the other day about how UFC has pretty much proved once you're an established main eventer, losing barely hurts your popularity or drawing power.

gimmick

Its lazy booking, plain and simple. Same as ref bumps. It just shows the lack of imagination involved.

Butch Cassidy

Jolt2007 wrote: »

I'd imagine it would have been at the start of the Monday Night Wars when main eventers would wrestle on free tv, to make people pay for the PPV match to see an ending. But it has become ridiculous how often it's been used on tv and PPV these days.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only half decent name that I recall Sheamus pinning clean yet is Christian, and maybe MVP if you consider him to still have a decent name. I was actually thinking the other day about how UFC has pretty much proved once you're an established main eventer, losing barely hurts your popularity or drawing power.

Nah it's much older than that. The dreaded Dusty finish was named as such as far back as the mid-80s. The Dusty finish being the one where there's a ref bump and the face takes the upper hand, a second ref comes down to make the count and declare the face the winner but the first ref comes to and reverses the decision. That kind of finish to end a match but keep both guys looking strong is at least 30 years old.

That said though, DQ and count-out finishes became very commonplace during the rise of Monday Night/Raw is WAR . DQ or count-out finishes on PPV should be treated as a taboo and avoided at all cost.

The Volt

I was watching SummerSlam 1988 the other day and the very first match was The British Bulldogs vs The Fabulous Rougeau Brothers. The two teams wrestled a very good match, but before either team could get the win, the time limit expired. It got me thinking, why doesn't this happen in the WWE anymore?

Other companies, such as TNA and ROH, use time limit draws on a semi-regular occassion, and I think they use it effectively. Time limit draws can be a tool to make both wrestlers look strong without either of them losing. Time limit draws could also be used other than cheap DQ endings.

How would you feel if the WWE started implementing time limits on their matches again? How would you feel if some matches, maybe 3 to 4 a year, goto a time limit draw? Would you like dislike matches that end in a draw because the lack of a definitive winner? Insert any other questions you would like to answer as well.

Butch Cassidy

WWF/WWE hasn't used time limit finishes like that in ages I don't think. Your average PPV hasn't been past the 25/30 min mark probably since the 80s. Of course there's a few exceptions here and there usually involving Steve Austin, Triple H or Shawn Michaels.

Fully Loaded 98 had a two of three falls 30-minute time limit match between Triple H and the Rock. It ended a draw at the 30minutes.

I suppose time constraints would be the reason they don't do too many of them kinda things.

Ridley

I think non-finishes are overused in Raw main events (although I understand why They do it) but I haven't thought there have been that many on PPV. Heels cheating to win is, y'know, what they do. And rasslers kicking out of so-called finishing moves that would normally guarantee an end first time around is a regular thing on PPV too.

The return of time limits would just let you know when the match was going to end really. Thought I want like another Championship Scramble match.