Common Branding/Livery for Luas/Metro/DART/Bus

That username is already in use.

Found this video about the rebranding and promotion of the LA Metro and bus. http://vimeo.com/7984623

If all modes of transport in Dublin are to have integrated ticketing (eventually), should we have one single brand/livery for all public transport, or maybe just stick a common logo on all of them?

And under what brand name? "National Transport Authority" or "Transport for Dublin", or what?

They had common livery for both DART and Dublin Bus in the 80's. Should be go back to the simple auld green?

Obviously, there are costs in involved, but by the time Metro and Interconnector come around, surely Dublin Bus will be updating their livery anyway.

Here was an article from 2008.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/dublin-bus-feeling-offcolour-yet-again-1353864.html

Also, from the NTA:

National Transport Authority wrote:

An integrated transport system in which all of the public transport services (Luas, metro, bus and suburban rail) are connected through high-quality interchange facilities, integrated ticketing, fares and customer information to create a cohesive network operating under a distinctive common brand.

http://www.nationaltransport.ie/faq.html

Cookie_Monster

didn't DB change to their most recent scheme to ensure the stood out from other operators and were easily recognised from afar by the horrid yellow colour?

Sulmac

All aspects of the public transport network within Greater Dublin - Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann, private bus companies, DART, Commuter, Luas, Dublin Bikes and (the future) Metro - need to have a single branding and livery under a short but simple name. "National Transport Authority" and "Transport for Dublin" are both too long (and the latter stolen from London).

Dublink. Something like that.

For colours I would pick sky blue and navy blue.

Services would be differentiated by simple logos, like a double-decker bus for Dublin Bus, a coach for Bus Éireann, a tram for the Luas, and so on.

There would be one website showing all timetables, maps, station/bus stop locations and information, ticket information, real-time information and with the ability to top-up your smart card and a door-to-door journey planner.

edit: Other good systems to base it off of would be Metro Transit in Minneapolis-St. Paul, GVB in Amsterdam, or TransLink in Vancouver.

That username is already in use.

Sulmac wrote: »

Services would be differentiated by simple logos, like a double-decker bus for Dublin Bus, a coach for Bus Éireann, a tram for the Luas, and so on.

How about just calling every Metro, like in LA, and then using those simple logos you mentioned depending on the service? I think that would work very well.

(I think I´ll be getting out my crayons)

antoinolachtnai

Section 57 of the Dublin Transport Authority Act requires the National Transport Authority to develop such a brand.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2008/en/act/pub/0015/sec0057.html#sec57

BrianD

I have argued that this is a very important action that must take place. With a unified brand will start seeing transport as a large unified network rather than its component parts - bus, rail, tram etc.

Personally, I think that the DART brand should be used across this network and should be introduced with integrated ticketing.

It's still possible for individual modes of transport to use different fleet colours e.g. Dublin Bus as long as the logo is the same so people can identify that it's part of the integrated network.

Cool Mo D

No point in an integrated brand without completely integrated ticketing. And I don't just mean a smartcard. Phase out cash fares on the bus, and adopt a system of buying a book of tickets valid across all or any public transport provider.

Even then, a common brand would be nice, but hardly a priority.

Empire o de Sun

Cool Mo D wrote: »

No point in an integrated brand without completely integrated ticketing. And I don't just mean a smartcard. Phase out cash fares on the bus, and adopt a system of buying a book of tickets valid across all or any public transport provider.

Even then, a common brand would be nice, but hardly a priority.

Phase out cash fares!!! So if I wanna take a bus, and don't regularly use it I need to buy a book of tickets!!:(

AlekSmart

Cool Mo D posted :-

No point in an integrated brand without completely integrated ticketing. And I don't just mean a smartcard. Phase out cash fares on the bus, and adopt a system of buying a book of tickets valid across all or any public transport provider.

Absolutely 101% totally in agreement here.

However our track-record in this matter is abysmal,as the powers-that-be have demonstrated continually their ignorance of what "Public Transport Integration" actually means.

Currently we have spent over €36 Million on a,yet to be delivered,"Smartcard" .
Even when we do get this "Smartcard" finally in place there is scant possibility of it being valid on ALL Public Transport In Dublin.

Whilst we do currently have a degree of modal integration,ie: Bus/Luas,Bus/Dart and Bus/Commuter Rail tickets we are still far away from the most commonly desired single transferable ticket purchased at point of travel.

Even within the CIE group there are only a handful of opportunities for a Busdriver to use the "Feeder Ticket" button on the Ticket Machine and then only after delving deep into an equally arcane fares and destinations pahlavah.

This stuff really should have been addressed and put to bed decades ago and could have been if there was a level of committment and understanding of the issue Affordable,Frequent and Reliable Public Transport....sadly there was neither ! :mad:

What exactly were all the Transport Ministers and more importantly,their Senior Civil Servants,doing for their days work ?

Judgement Day

I certainly hope nothing is done to the Luas livery as it quite a breath of modernity in the city. CIE/IE have a very poor track record when it comes to liveries.

Cookie_Monster

Judgement Day wrote: »

I certainly hope nothing is done to the Luas livery as it quite a breath of modernity in the city. CIE/IE have a very poor track record when it comes to liveries.

We could start by gettin grid of the Wexford flag on every Luas

BrianD

Judgement Day wrote: »

I certainly hope nothing is done to the Luas livery as it quite a breath of modernity in the city. CIE/IE have a very poor track record when it comes to liveries.

What LUAS livery? The service has no identity!

That username is already in use.

That username is already in use. wrote: »

And under what brand name? "National Transport Authority" or "Transport for Dublin", or what?

Absolutely not! I don't want us copying the UK again.

Sulmac wrote: »

Dublink. Something like that.

Could be problematic as Matthews use this identity for some of their bus services.

dfx-

Like with Dublin Bus and its Fleet Standard livery...there is really no need for it to be one livery, do people really care what colour it is as long as it says their route number on the front?

Cityswift and All-Over-Ads much better..

OT: Easily best username in the history of the universe..

Cookie_Monster

dfx- wrote:

All-Over-Ads much better..

here here.

Bring back the Smarties bus I say

Sulmac

Karsini wrote: »

Could be problematic as Matthews use this identity for some of their bus services.

That's a shame. I made a simple livery for it though, see attached.

The logos are just stolen straight from Vancouver's TransLink website (and yes, I know there are no water-based services in Dublin).

Cookie_Monster

Sulmac wrote: »

That's a shame. I made a simple livery for it though, see attached.

The logos are just stolen straight from Vancouver's TransLink website (and yes, I know there are no water-based services in Dublin).

there is that red and white Liffey boat from O'Connell bridge to IFSC is there not? Or has that died a death?

Empire o de Sun

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

here here.

Bring back the Smarties bus I say

Bring back the Guinness Dart

Sulmac

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

there is that red and white Liffey boat from O'Connell bridge to IFSC is there not? Or has that died a death?

That's still there as far as I know, but it's really geared more towards tourists (although I think it's a DDDA initiative, so it could easily be subsumed into a transport authority).

The other water service, the "Liffey Ferry" from Spencer Dock to Sir John Rogerson's Quay, was ended with the opening of the Samuel Beckett Bridge in December.

antoinolachtnai

I doubt the NTA or anyone else would want to have any dealings with the diesel bill for that craft if they can avoid it.

patrickbrophy18

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

Phase out cash fares!!! So if I wanna take a bus, and don't regularly use it I need to buy a book of tickets!!:(

In this situation, all bus stops accross the entire Dublin Bus network anyway, would need to have ticket machines for once off journeys to prevent modest commuters from spending needlessly large sums of cash on tickets covering a fixed period of time such as a week or a month. I'm not too sure how viable this would be. However, there must be enough people in Dublin who would embark on once off journeys to justify ticket machines. If not, then keep the legacy cash fare system in place. After all, the cash machines on buses are (I assume) powered by their engines. If I am right in that regard, powering the cash fare machine shouldn't be putting a large dent in their account.

Sulmac

On the topic of going cashless, some cities have gone further. Amsterdam, for instance, has gotten rid of paper tickets altogether - having only smart-cards for all users. The system there will go nationwide eventually.

Amsterdam public transport goes ticketless

Published on 3 June 2010 - 9:08am

Public transport users in Amsterdam can no longer use paper tickets to travel by bus, tram, metro or train.

The Dutch capital has gone over to full electronic ticketing, which is another step in the phased introduction of nationwide ticketless travel. The new system uses a smart card known as the OV chipcard, referring to the readable chip that holds the user's data. The OV chipcard authority told the press on Thursday morning that it hopes to have the card in full use throughout the country by April 2011.

From Thursday morning, all trams and buses in the Amsterdam area can be accessed only by using an electronic ticket, which is scanned when boarding and leaving the vehicle. The Amsterdam metro system had gone ticketless earlier this year. A similar move in the city of Rotterdam proceeded relatively smoothly, with only minor teething troubles.

Changing trains

In other parts of the country the introduction of the card has been delayed because several train and bus companies have not yet finalised preparations for the new electronic system. A major stumbling block is so-called through-ticketing for the many travellers in rural areas who need to use more than one company in the course of their trip. People using the main passenger rail company NS can use their chip card, but when they change to a rival regional service they have to buy a paper ticket for the remainder of their journey.

Currently 7.5 million Dutch people, just under half the population, possess an electronic ticket. Season ticket holders may continue to travel using their non-electronic cards for the time being.

Unlike other conurbations served by public transport, such as London or Hong Kong, the Dutch network will not retain the option of paper tickets for occasional users or tourists.

© Radio Netherlands Worldwide

I also think a flat-fare should be introduced on Dublin Bus services.

Judgement Day

Why not hand the whole thing, Luas and all, to CIE and let them call it all the DART? That way everything could be let run to rack and ruin as per usual, and it would soon assume a uniformly grubby, neglected appearance and then nobody would be confused. :rolleyes:

Sulmac

Judgement Day wrote: »

Why not hand the whole thing, Luas and all, to CIE and let them call it all the DART? That way everything could be let run to rack and ruin as per usual, and it would soon assume a uniformly grubby, neglected appearance and then nobody would be confused. :rolleyes:

Can we do it the opposite way; and hand Dublin Bus, DART and Commuter services to Veolia?

Judgement Day

Sulmac wrote: »

Can we do it the opposite way; and hand Dublin Bus, DART and Commuter services to Veolia?

+1

and Inter-City while we're at it.

Empire o de Sun

Sulmac wrote: »

Can we do it the opposite way; and hand Dublin Bus, DART and Commuter services to Veolia?

I think there might be a union problem there. But you can do what Regan did in the 80's to Air traffic control in the USA, sack them (or to be polite make redundant) and offer them new contracts with Veolia. This way all the perks and stupido practices can be gotten rid of. And then the Dart/Commuter service might make a profit.

markpb

BrianD wrote: »

What LUAS livery? The service has no identity!

I can't argue with that but there's no denying it's well recognised across Dublin. It's also synonymous with good public transport, something IR and DB have fail to do (sometimes unfairly).

Judgement Day

markpb wrote: »

I can't argue with that but there's no denying it's well recognised across Dublin. It's also synonymous with good public transport, something IR and DB have fail to do (sometimes unfairly).

And, unusually for the British Isles post circa 1948, it's simple and attractive - no toothpaste IE stripes, or zany patterns or brake dust encrusted paintwork.

icdg

Judgement Day wrote: »

Why not hand the whole thing, Luas and all, to CIE and let them call it all the DART? That way everything could be let run to rack and ruin as per usual, and it would soon assume a uniformly grubby, neglected appearance and then nobody would be confused. :rolleyes:

Oddly enough, in the very, very, early days of DART CIE painted a chunk of its buses in DART livery! They were intended to be used for feeder services but like every attempt since to introduce service specific branding the buses ended up being used on other services which is why Dublin Bus has essentially abandoned service-specific branding (which it had a lot of during the late 1990s) except on Airlink. Which is another point, Dublin Bus' history of using brands ending in "-link" (LocaLink, Airlink, Nitelink, Omnilink, I could probably name more...) so perhaps a name ending in -link might not be bad. Not Translink though, the Northern Ireland Transport Holding Company might have something to say about that...

Personally though, I would just go for "Dublin Transport" with the Dublin Bus symbol and a modified logotype. I know its a lowercase "db" but its also a castle which represents Dublin. Different coloured versions could be used on different modes - Dublin Bus could keep yellow, Dublin Trains green, Dublin Trams purple. I'd abandon the DART, Commuter, and Luas brands for the sake of branding uniformity. I'd only do it after (or in conjuction with, for maximum impact) integrated ticketing was introduced though.

Stonewolf

Integrated branding will be entirely superfluous so long as public transport in Dublin is operated as a series of non-complementary, non-integrated competing services.

It would be better to amalgamate all Dublin public transport into one company (designation irrelevant, Dublin Transit would be my personal choice) which either ran services itself or franchised them or both. This company could then impose whatever integrated ticketing and branding it wanted whilst re-arranging the various modes into a complementary system designed to get people where they need to go in an efficient manner.

robbie_998

Empire o de Sun wrote: »

Bring back the Guinness Dart

or the Eircell Ready To Go DART with the mobile phone that could move and stuff. (can;t find the dart now )

Zebra3

I'm not too bothered about common branding.

All I want is:

1) train stations, Luas stops, etc clearly marked from a distance;

2) integrated ticketing;

3) maps for the GDA showing both IE's commuter lines and the RPAs.

Victor

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

didn't DB change to their most recent scheme to ensure the stood out from other operators and were easily recognised from afar by the horrid yellow colour?

Lots of buses internationally are coloured yellow - it means you can see the bus from a distance.

Cookie_Monster

Victor wrote: »

Lots of buses internationally are coloured yellow - it means you can see the bus from a distance.

yes, I did mention that in the post

Doesn't make it not a vile colour though.