Sky HD + Electricity Tripping

So Many Shoes

Hopefully someone here can help me, if not MODs feel free to move it!

Moved into a new apartment which uses a Communal (sp?) Sky dish. We bought a new Samsung 46inch LCD and got Sky installed that night. When we plugged the TV into the socket it works fine but the minute we touch the Sky HDMI cable off the TV HDMI input, the whole electricity trips. The Sky box doesn't even have to be powered on for the electricity to trip.

We first thought it was the TVs fault, so we returned the first one and got a second one....still the same problem. And the most confusing part of it all, our 32inch Philips LCD work perfectly!

We tried a normal RTE1/2 aerial and it trips the electricity also (but come to think of it I think the Sky box was plugged in). The playstation/Wii works fine on the TV, the TV itself works fine, it's just when we try Sky.

On the aerial socket on the wall, there is a number, which we rang but he said it couldn't be anything to do with him. We're going to try another Sky box too, but we don't know if that will make any difference. Neither the sky box installer or the shop we bought the TV from have ever heard of this problem.

We haven't a clue who to get to look at it, Sky or an electrician, if anyone has any advice, it would be greatly appreciated because we are going mad trying to figure this out and it's a costly "ornament" to have lying around!

Thanks

copacetic

Have you tried with everything plugged into different sockets? Sounds like you have some kind of electrical issue with earth leakage but if everything works properly with a different TV and the setup was otherwise identical then it doesn't quite make sense.

Personally the first thing I'd do is check the earthing on my sockets and the plugs from the equipment, then carefully test things one and a time to identify the issue.

eg when you say 'it trips' with just the rte aerial, is this an aerial cable from the wall or a powered antenna thats plugged in or just rabbits ears?

So Many Shoes

Hi copacetic, thanks for your reply. Ya we have tried different sockets, unplugging everything in the house and just plugging in the TV and sky, we got an adapter-type-thing from the shop, putting the wires in differently, everything we could think of but it's still the same problem. Even with the TV powered off and the Sky box powered off (at the socket even), the same thing happens, you don't even have to plug the HMDI cable (or any cable) into the TV input, they just need to 'rub' off each other. It really doesn't make sense that the other TV works perfectly.

We even got the shop to try the same TV and Sky HD in the shop to see if the TV didn't accept Sky or something, and it worked perfectly for them, so we don't think it's a TV fault. We were talking to a friend, who knows a bit about TVs and he said that a lot of new TVs have something in them which triggers if there is electrical faults and will trip the electricity, for safety reasons, if lightening hit or something....

How would we go about checking the earthing? Would it just be best to get an electrician out?

TBH I've no idea what rabbit ears are! But I think I'm on about an aerial cable from the wall. There's a socket with 2 circular holes - one for TV and one for radio, when we put the aerial wire into the TV, we were getting RTE1/2/TV3/TG4 (before we got Sky)...if that explains it any better!

Thanks again!

copacetic

is yours a newish house/apt.

It appears your RCD is tripping when you plug anything into your TV thats connected to an aerial/sat dish. It's a little unusual but it's a wiring issue with your house rather than the TV most likely.

A decent test would be to power down sky box, detach the cables from it, then hook it up to TV and see does it trip out the power.

Tbh I think you need an electrician out, or someone you know who is familiar with electrics.

Mike 1972

Many TV's have very poor electrical isolation with voltages appearing in ll manner of strange places and having unexpected effects. Its a disgrace that they are (apparently) legally allowed to sell such junk. Not sure if the TV is the problem here though.

So Many Shoes wrote: »

The Sky box doesn't even have to be powered on for the electricity to trip.

By not powered on do you mean switched into standby mode or actually unplugged ?

Long shot but try reversing the power connector ("figure 8 lead") at the back of the Sky box

So Many Shoes

Thanks for the replies.

Ya it's a new apt and no one has ever lived in it before, so I suppose a problem would have never been spotted before.

Sorry, copacetic, what do you mean by power down the sky box? Like just unplug it? So you think unplug all the cables and then start from scratch with it again? I think we have tried that (done so many tests at this stage!), but we'll give it another go.

Ya I'd say an electrician would be best, but how do we explain to the landlord that the other TV works but not this one, so it must be electrics!!

Mike 1972, by not powered on, I mean that the sky box plug is in the wall socket but that the switch is not turned on at the socket.

Is the 'figure 8 lead' the one that goes from the box to the TV/aerial wall socket? We have reversed some cables, but I'm not sure if we did that one, so we'll give that a go too...

icdg

Moved to Satellite.

Solair

Your sky box is faulty.

If this is a modern TV of the flat screen variety it is earthed. If you look at the cable or the "kettle lead" connector on the back of the TV you will notice 3 pins.

Your sky box is double insulated and not earthed. Note the two pin "figure of 8" connector on the back for the power cable.

All Irish/UK plugs have 3 pins regardless of whether the earth pin is used or not. This is simply because of the design of the sockets where the earth pin opens the shutters. So, the fact that there's a 3 pin mains plug on the end of the lead means nothing. Where as on the continent it's immediately obvious that a plug has an earth contact on the sides of the plug if the appliance is earthed.


Your RCD (residual current device) on your house wiring detects leakage to earth by comparing the current flowing on the live and the neutral. I there's a difference, it trips.

It sounds like when you connect your sky box to the TV the faulty sky box is earthing via the HDMI cable shielding and via the TV's earth connection.

Without touching the sky box, check if there is a voltage present on the outside of the case (exposed metal parts) and the edge of the HDMI port itself. A phase tester screwdriver should light up if there's a problem.

The wiring in your house is working correctly : preventing you from getting shocked / killed. Don't bypass it whatever you do!!

Try a different Sky+HD box.

Mike 1972

So Many Shoes wrote: »

Is the 'figure 8 lead' the one that goes from the box to the TV/aerial wall socket? We have reversed some cables, but I'm not sure if we did that one, so we'll give that a go too...

No its the power cable from your mains socket where it goes into the back of the sky box

pull it out and put it back in the other way around and see if theres any difference

STB

I dont doubt a earthing issue with the Sky box. I would be more inclined to think that there is too much ampage being pulled on the one circuit.

Get it checked.

Bad wiring.

copacetic

Solair wrote: »

Your sky box is faulty.

If this is a modern TV of the flat screen variety it is earthed. If you look at the cable or the "kettle lead" connector on the back of the TV you will notice 3 pins.

Your sky box is double insulated and not earthed. Note the two pin "figure of 8" connector on the back for the power cable.

All Irish/UK plugs have 3 pins regardless of whether the earth pin is used or not. This is simply because of the design of the sockets where the earth pin opens the shutters. So, the fact that there's a 3 pin mains plug on the end of the lead means nothing. Where as on the continent it's immediately obvious that a plug has an earth contact on the sides of the plug if the appliance is earthed.


Your RCD (residual current device) on your house wiring detects leakage to earth by comparing the current flowing on the live and the neutral. I there's a difference, it trips.

It sounds like when you connect your sky box to the TV the faulty sky box is earthing via the HDMI cable shielding and via the TV's earth connection.

Without touching the sky box, check if there is a voltage present on the outside of the case (exposed metal parts) and the edge of the HDMI port itself. A phase tester screwdriver should light up if there's a problem.

The wiring in your house is working correctly : preventing you from getting shocked / killed. Don't bypass it whatever you do!!

Try a different Sky+HD box.

Hmmm, this was the obvious conclusion except it doesn't explain how just using an aerial trips the power too? Also doesn't explain how the same sky box works fine in the shop.

watty

Could be faulty PSU filter capacitors, an over sensitive RCD, badly wired apartment or faulty mains lead.

Try a different mains lead on the box and in different socket.

If it makes any difference how [(o)(o)] the mains lead at box end is connected (when case of box earthed somehow) then it's likely a slightly faulty PSU capacitor inside the box.

The box is not earthed till connected to an aerial or earthed hifi etc.. The shop could have a less sensitive RCD.

If connecting the skybox cable is OK when box is connected to NOTHING else (not even LNB), then it's a slightly faulty PSU filter, or over sensitive RCD or both.

So Many Shoes

A bit of a quick update, I didn't get a chance to read all your replies yet, but thanks!

The sky box installer just came out and installed a new box and we changed all the wires, and still it tripped the electricity, so it has to be the actual aerial wall socket or an electrical socket problem.

Solair

So Many Shoes wrote: »

A bit of a quick update, I didn't get a chance to read all your replies yet, but thanks!

The sky box installer just came out and installed a new box and we changed all the wires, and still it tripped the electricity, so it has to be the actual aerial wall socket or an electrical socket problem.

It's not an over sensitive RCD and you should not replace or bypass this device. Doing so can literally cause death if something else were faulty eg your immersion etc

Something is leaking to earth you need to get out a multimeter and get
To the bottom of it or call an electrician if you don't feel you know what you're up to.

watty

You need an EXPERT electrician.

So Many Shoes

Thanks for the replies, I think an electrician is the best option.

What do ye think we should say to the Landlord to tell an electrician...i.e. that it's an RCD, PSU problem? Or just that there is an electrics problem?

snaps

Solair wrote: »

Your sky box is faulty.

If this is a modern TV of the flat screen variety it is earthed. If you look at the cable or the "kettle lead" connector on the back of the TV you will notice 3 pins.

Your sky box is double insulated and not earthed. Note the two pin "figure of 8" connector on the back for the power cable.

All Irish/UK plugs have 3 pins regardless of whether the earth pin is used or not. This is simply because of the design of the sockets where the earth pin opens the shutters. So, the fact that there's a 3 pin mains plug on the end of the lead means nothing. Where as on the continent it's immediately obvious that a plug has an earth contact on the sides of the plug if the appliance is earthed.


Your RCD (residual current device) on your house wiring detects leakage to earth by comparing the current flowing on the live and the neutral. I there's a difference, it trips.

It sounds like when you connect your sky box to the TV the faulty sky box is earthing via the HDMI cable shielding and via the TV's earth connection.

Without touching the sky box, check if there is a voltage present on the outside of the case (exposed metal parts) and the edge of the HDMI port itself. A phase tester screwdriver should light up if there's a problem.

The wiring in your house is working correctly : preventing you from getting shocked / killed. Don't bypass it whatever you do!!

Try a different Sky+HD box.

My Phillips tv (about a year old) only has 2 pins into the back of it, like a portable hi fi etc.

Solair

snaps wrote: »

My Phillips tv (about a year old) only has 2 pins into the back of it, like a portable hi fi etc.

That's fine, some need an earth, others don't. It just depends on the design of the TV. The majority of the large-format LCDs are now shipping with earthed connections. I'm not entirely sure why this is, but it could be as simple as having some exposed metal parts.

I'd definitely suggest that the OP calls an electrician though as there is something leaking to earth. Blaming an over-sensitive RCD is just shooting the messenger. They're highly unlikely to trip unless there's a real fault of some sort.

It's particularly odd that the trip's only occurring when you connect the Sky box to the TV. Something's completing a path to earth via your TV's cable.

Earth faults can be really complex and you don't want to mess around with that kind of thing as it can lead to terrible situations like lethally dangerous live plumbing or, if it's a major fault, even house fires.

danjo-xx

So Many Shoes wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, I think an electrician is the best option.

What do ye think we should say to the Landlord to tell an electrician...i.e. that it's an RCD, PSU problem? Or just that there is an electrics problem?[/QUOTE

Say their seems to be an electrical problem & just explain all the different things that you have tried and that the RCD still keeps tripping. You could add that you feel there might be an earth leakage problem.

Booms

Has anyone else in the other apartments had the same problem?

Did you try disconnecting the sky box from the satellite plate on the wall before connecting it to the tv? If there's an earth fault on the satellite cable it should be looked at by the company that originally installed it.

Do get a professional to check it out.

Tony

If this only happens when the aerial or sat dish is connected it sounds very much like the earth bonding is not working correctly on the cable feeds. This is an earthing bar fitted to the communal system to earth every feed to the same point so there is no difference in the earth potential between apartments.

Of course I could be wrong and its impossible to know without testing but it sure sounds like it.

Rippy

Tony wrote: »

If this only happens when the aerial or sat dish is connected it sounds very much like the earth bonding is not working correctly on the cable feeds. This is an earthing bar fitted to the communal system to earth every feed to the same point so there is no difference in the earth potential between apartments.

Of course I could be wrong and its impossible to know without testing but it sure sounds like it.

Have seen quite a few communal installations ( including large recent ones) where there is no earth bonding at all.
Illegal and dangerous.
If you have a multimeter, connect it across the outer and inner of tv socket and measure voltage present.

Tony

Yes it seems to be quite common. I was tendering for an apartment block last year and only got the job when the management company were smart enough to realise the guy tendering against me did not intend to use a bonding block.

Rippy wrote: »

Have seen quite a few communal installations ( including large recent ones) where there is no earth bonding at all.
Illegal and dangerous.

Mike 1972

Solair wrote: »

That's fine, some need an earth, others don't. It just depends on the design of the TV. The majority of the large-format LCDs are now shipping with earthed connections. I'm not entirely sure why this is, but it could be as simple as having some exposed metal parts..

Many types of Switch mode power supplies need an earth connection otherwise both legs of the output will "float" around 115v above ground. This is a very common problem particularly with TV's and laptops and can result in voltages appearing in all manner of unexpected places such as chassis AV ports and on any connected devices. Sometimes residual voltages remain even after a device has been unplugged :eek:

This problem doesnt appear to be widely recognised by regulatory agencies or they seem to be doing very little to enforce electrical safety standards. :mad: