Leaky gearbox funny clutch...

af_thefragile

As some of you might know my 1.4l Puma has suddenly developed some clutch problems...

Today I went to check the car, firstly this is what I found underneath it:

And it was coming from here:

another view:

That's a bolt which I think is where the gearbox joins the engine the oil is leaking from...

When I turn on the engine, it revs upto around 2500rpm as usual and usually it comes straight down to the idle speed of 900rpm. But this time it comes down very slow to around 1200rpm and hangs around there. The clutch has gone very funny too. There's this sorta grinding noise coming from under the engine. When I press the clutch pedal in fully it goes away. Then as I let out the clutch pedal, I can sorta feel the clutch engage and the grinding noise comes back.
The car doesn't go forward in neutral neither does it move when you press in the clutch pedal while in gear. But when the car is moving, the engine at times seems to suddenly lose power, the revs comes down and the engine feels like its about the stall.

And then the clutch pedal is all funny. It feels really soft and frequently when the engine is running it sinks into the floor when you press on it and takes a while to get back up. It doesn't take this long when the engine is off.

So what do you guys think the problem might be??

Thanks for any help...

kasper

is the oil that is leaking from the car burnt as in black ?

Captain Slow IRL

You could check if that oil leak is coming from above the gearbox although it's likely that it's an internal leak, from the engine or gearbox.

It would be pointless speculating what it could be, you really would have to get the gearbox removed to find out what is going wrong.

af_thefragile

The oil does look dark but I can't say if its burnt.
Isn't gearbox oil harmful to the skin. I didn't want to touch it...

And the oil was dripping out from that nut I pointed to in the pic. I think its where the gearbox joins to the engine block... I can't see anything above where the leak could be... Looks mostly like its coming out from the gearbox...

kasper

it could be a crankshaft seal leaking engine oil into the bellhousing of the gearbox and fouling your clutch , it also sounds like your clutch release bearing is making noise or the clutch forks are some way damaged , rub the oil at the bottom of the car with a paper tissue and the compare it to oil off the dip stick

af_thefragile

Looks like I will need to take the gearbox apart then and replace the clutch assembly.

The guys at the Puma forum said its probably the release bearing which is gone and is leaking break/clutch oil into the bell housing which is leaking out...

Could also be the crankshaft leaking engine oil. Though the clutch definitely has some problem with it as the car is pretty much undriveable.

The engine has been using up a lot of oil too lately. It uses around 1l of oil for every 400-500miles depending on how hard I drive it. I think there could be some oil leaking from the rocker cover gasket but it could also be oil leaking into the gearbox bell housing...

I'll check the oil to see if its more like the engine oil or the break oil...

Plug

Ah I'd say its the realease bearing. You can get full clutch kits with release bearings on ebay for about €100.

af_thefragile

On the internet the new release bearings are around 100-120 pounds. Ford ones.
Clutch costs about the same aswell...

Though on ebay I found this:
http://cgi.ebay.ie/FORD-PUMA-98-01-1-4-CSC-CLUTCH-KIT-OE-QUALITY-/120582275094?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM#ht_2244wt_801

Which claims to say its OE quality ("if not better"!)....

Would you recommend I get the genuine Ford part from a ford dealer or here:
http://www.pumaspeed.co.uk/showdetails.jsp?productID=290

Or get that aftermarket one from ebay which costs half as much?

Pete67

A failed release bearing would be noisy and is likely to cause difficulty selecting gears as the clutch may not disengage fully or at all, especially if the bearing has broken up rather than just making a squealing noise when the clutch pedal is depressed. The pedal may also feel unusually soft and may not rise back up. From what you've described I'd say the bearing has failed completely. BUT, a failed release bearing wil not cause an oil leak so I'd say either the crankshaft seal or the gear box input shaft seal is leaking into the bell housing. If the engine is losing oil and requiring frequnt top ups then it most likely the cranksgaft seal. I'm surprised you have not noticed it before though, it's usually spotted by a oil patch on the ground where the car is regularly parked. The gearbox will have to come out to see what is going on, and probably also the flywheel.

Edit, just ooked at the photos again, is that the gearbox drain plug that is leaking? Did anyone loosen it? If thats the source of the leak then it just needs tightening and the gearbox oil level topped up to the correct level.

af_thefragile

It wasn't leaking oil before. Its only recently that the oil is dripping out as such.
Although I think there was always a very tiny amount of leak. Like if you leave the car standing for a few days, you could notice a tiny (2 inches wide) oil spot under the engine...

Andrew Campbell

You can find out if its engine or gear oil by smelling it. Gear oil has a distinctive odour which will be different to the smell of a sample of oil from the engine( take a few drops from the dipstick) Also gear oil will appear to be golden in colour but allow for some dirty black flecks which is dirt in the bell housing (clutch area) or on the outside of the gearbox. Engine oil will have a grey or black colour.

regarding the noise the fact that it stops when the clutch is depressed leads me more to a bearing on the input shaft or the lay shaft inside the box. These turn when the box is in neutral and the clutch engaged (ie foot off pedal) A release bearing or input shaft nose bearing are usually noisy when the pedal is depressed (ie clutch dis engaged). Although I have seen noisy release bearings when there is no load on them (ie foot off Pedal) on some types of car. (Cars with constant engagement type release bearings as opposed to ones that have a small pedal movement before the bearing touches the clutch pressure plate fingers)

If it was an input shaft bearing failure that could also account for the oil leak as the movement would have damaged the seal.

either way it looks like a gearbox out job to rectify either a leaking crankshaft oil seal, replacement of clutch parts or indeed repairs to a gearbox.
However to avoid some expensive mechanics time wasted checking the gearbox while its out or indeed re assembly with a new clutch only to find further problems in the gearbox I would recommend if possible establishing the source of the leak before any disassembly and if it is a gearbox oil leak top it up and see if the noise goes away. Then you will know you only need to fix the leak to have her motoring again.

one last thing when you have the gearbox out you might consider replacing the clutch anyhow unless it is in nearly new condition. It would be a shame to have to pull the box back out in a couple of months time for a second time.


Good luck

af_thefragile

^Cheers, I got it looked over by a mechanic. He said it's the slave cylinder. Its damaged and leaking the transmission fluid which is dripping out from the bell housing.

The grinding noise goes away when you depress the clutch pedal (disengaging the clutch) and when you lift off the clutch pedal, it stick in and slowly comes back out, the grinding noise comes back when the clutch engages back onto the flywheel.

Its defo the transmission fluid and not engine oil as the level has gone down on the reservoir where you pour in the brake/clutch fluid.

So I'm getting a new clutch + slave cylinder fitted. Hopefully that should do the job.


Would an input shaft bearing damage mean taking apart the gearbox?
I'm planning on rebuilding the gearbox next summer (if i'm feeling bold!) and changing the bearings and synchro rings and any worn out cogs or shafts. The gearbox doesn't go into reverse at times.

The car right now is running fine, once you get it moving. Its only when you get to change gear, the clutch gives trouble.