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Revealing/Mucking Losing Cards

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  • 21-08-2010 1:05pm
    #1
    rosboy
    Registered Users Posts: 990 ✭✭✭


    Hey all.

    I play a regular game with a few friends in a local. There's been a little bit of an arguement brewing for a while now, and it became a little more heated during the week. The question relates to revealing your cards if you know you're beaten by an earlier player turning over his cards.

    Here's the example from during the week. (While I do play a little poker, my terminology may be incorrect, so please forgive me).

    Only myself (big blind) and the small blind are left in the hand. We both check the River. The small blind turns over his cards first, and reveals a hand superior to mine. I simply muck my cards at this point. Here, the small blind starts to become irate, and insists that I have to show my cards, and that he has "paid to see them". My interpretation of the rules is that I only need to turn my cards over if I want to claim the chips in the middle on the table.

    Can someone please advise what the rules governing this situation are? If possible, can you provide a reference to some formal rules (e.g. WSOP rules, etc.), as I'd like to be able to email this around before next weeks game to clear things up.

    Thanks all.


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  • Options
    #2
    rosboy
    Registered Users Posts: 990 ✭✭✭rosboy


    Anyone?


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    #3
    DAMO72
    Registered Users Posts: 1,802 ✭✭✭DAMO72


    rosboy wrote: »
    Anyone?
    When the hand gets to showdown and the sb shows his hand you are entitled to muck your hand without showing if you are not laying claim to the pot .
    However any player at the table can request to see your cards even if they are not involved in the hand and they can be retrieved from the muck and tabled while remaining dead .

    Now if the player still in the hand insists on seeing your hand then your hand becomes live again. What this means is if you have made a mistake and you actually have the winning hand then you can claim the pot.

    This is covered in the TDA official rules of poker used by TD's all over the world.
    This is the rule from the TDA .
    SHOWDOWN :
    5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player�s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.


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    #4
    rosboy
    Registered Users Posts: 990 ✭✭✭rosboy


    DAMO72 wrote: »
    When the hand gets to showdown and the sb shows his hand you are entitled to muck your hand without showing if you are not laying claim to the pot .
    However any player at the table can request to see your cards even if they are not involved in the hand and they can be retrieved from the muck and tabled while remaining dead .

    Now if the player still in the hand insists on seeing your hand then your hand becomes live again. What this means is if you have made a mistake and you actually have the winning hand then you can claim the pot.

    This is covered in the TDA official rules of poker used by TD's all over the world.
    This is the rule from the TDA .
    SHOWDOWN :
    5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player�s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

    Cheers Damo. Is there any clarification around "this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused"? What constitutes abuse?


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    #5
    connie147
    Registered Users Posts: 2,836 ✭✭✭connie147


    What Damo hasnt said there is that amongst poker players, it is considered very bad manners and bad poker etticate to ask to see your opponnents cards in this situation. Nobody does it really, and anyone who does is acting the dick. Show your poker buddies this as well.


    connie


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    #6
    gondorff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 388 ✭✭gondorff


    connie147 wrote: »
    What Damo hasnt said there is that amongst poker players, it is considered very bad manners and bad poker etticate to ask to see your opponnents cards in this situation. Nobody does it really, and anyone who does is acting the dick. Show your poker buddies this as well.


    connie

    Hmmm... interesting!

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54339099&postcount=51

    Is it the times that are-a-changing or is it people's ethics?


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    #7
    JoeB-
    Registered Users Posts: 689 ✭✭✭JoeB-


    The rule about seeing hands that have folded is to do with collusion I think, it's not there for nosy people.

    I could be wrong.


  • Options
    #8
    TirEoghain
    Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭TirEoghain


    DAMO72 wrote: »
    When the hand gets to showdown and the sb shows his hand you are entitled to muck your hand without showing if you are not laying claim to the pot .
    However any player at the table can request to see your cards even if they are not involved in the hand and they can be retrieved from the muck and tabled while remaining dead .

    Now if the player still in the hand insists on seeing your hand then your hand becomes live again. What this means is if you have made a mistake and you actually have the winning hand then you can claim the pot.

    This is covered in the TDA official rules of poker used by TD's all over the world.
    This is the rule from the TDA .
    SHOWDOWN :
    5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player�s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

    In the example in the OP, the OP's hand wasn't called. He called the Small Blinds check, so the small blinds bet was called not the OP's, therefore in my opinion he can not be asked to show the hand.


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