What happens if a judge cannot be found that is impartial

Diamondmaker

We are going through elections here and its tight as a Dingos Hole between them. Got me thinking about the Kerry / Bush election which I think ended up in some legal wrangles over a certain number of votes in FLorida or something along those lines.

So what happened there and what may happen here ? You would think that any judge in the land would have voted and especially over here, it is obligatory, you must observe your right to be democratic, for penalty of fines :rolleyes:

SO in the case where every judge in the land has cast a vote either way, how do we get an impartial judge?
Say also a judge alleges he voted for party 3 or spoiled a vote, how does anyone know this is true and their impartiality can never be truly known?

Just my random question.

cheers
DM

Reilly616

Judges must follow the law and precedent, not their own opinions.

Diamondmaker

Could therefore a judge be appointed that is a known supporter of one side or the other ?

Reilly616

Judges as a rule are not supposed to show support for either side publically. If a Judge had shown public support, they wouldn't be put on the case. A Judge would be selected who was as impartial as possible, but in reality that only means not selecting Judges who have staunch views or personal interests in given cases. Usually it is the Judge themselves who declare that they might have some bias in a case and thus should not take it.

Diamondmaker

Reilly616 wrote: »

Judges as a rule are not supposed to show support for either side publically. If a Judge had shown public support, they wouldn't be put on the case. A Judge would be selected who was as impartial as possible, but in reality that only means not selecting Judges who have staunch views or personal interests in given cases. Usually it is the Judge themselves who declare that they might have some bias in a case and thus should not take it.

All a bit flawed then isnt it But what was that Churchill said about democracy................;)

Reilly616

Well, the Judiciary is a meritocracy...

But, what is flawed about it?

Delancey

There was an interesting High Court case a few years back where a teacher was taking an action of some description against a Fee-paying school in Dublin ( the case also somehow involved another private school as well ) . The case had to be adjourned several times as no judge could be found who had not either attended 1 of the 2 schools or did not have children attending them currently !

Took ages to find a judge who was not connected in any way....

Reilly616

delancey42 wrote: »

There was an interesting High Court case a few years back where a teacher was taking an action of some description against a Fee-paying school in Dublin ( the case also somehow involved another private school as well ) . The case had to be adjourned several times as no judge could be found who had not either attended 1 of the 2 schools or did not have children attending them currently !

Took ages to find a judge who was not connected in any way....

Possibly a naive question, but why couldn't they just pick a judge who wasn't from Dublin?

Delancey

Reilly616 wrote: »

Possibly a naive question, but why couldn't they just pick a judge who wasn't from Dublin?

Good question - it seems most of the Judges from Dublin had attended these schools and those who weren't originally from Dublin had their children attending them - bear in mind the High Court is ' based ' in Dublin.
There were a lot of comments about ' absence of diversity ' in the Judiciary :rolleyes:

Reilly616

delancey42 wrote: »

Good question - it seems most of the Judges from Dublin had attended these schools and those who weren't originally from Dublin had their children attending them - bear in mind the High Court is ' based ' in Dublin.
There were a lot of comments about ' absence of diversity ' in the Judiciary :rolleyes:

Ah, I hadn't thought of that. I'm from Cork, so any High Court cases I might want to see are provincial CC appeals. Sort of dulls the fact in my mind that its usually up in Dublin.

On the topic, are there (has there ever been) any talks about extra permanent High Courts? Perhaps one in Cork and one in Galway?

Our man in Havana

Diamondmaker wrote: »

Could therefore a judge be appointed that is a known supporter of one side or the other ?

Happens all the time. Just look at the appointments to the US Supreme Court.

Jo King

There are two former TDs sitting on the High Court.

Delancey

Jo King wrote: »

There are two former TDs sitting on the High Court.

Who are they ? I think Declan Costelloe is one but who is the other ?

_JOE_

It is true that most judges were affiliated with a political party prior to appointment on the bench. However, unlike many US SC judges, the irish judiciary of the superior courts do adhere to the below:

Article 34
5. 1° Every person appointed a judge under this Constitution shall make and subscribe the following declaration:

"In the presence of Almighty God I, , do solemnly and sincerely promise and declare that I will duly and faithfully and to the best of my knowledge and power execute the office of Chief Justice (or as the case may be) without fear or favour, affection or ill-will towards any man, and that I will uphold the Constitution and the laws. May God direct and sustain me."

Article 35

2. All judges shall be independent in the exercise of their judicial functions and subject only to this Constitution and the law.

Diamondmaker

Reilly616 wrote: »

Well, the Judiciary is a meritocracy...

But, what is flawed about it?

That a nations balance of power can lay in the hands of one person, who may be aligned or have preference for one party over another and it is entirely up to this person to decide whether to declare this preference or not, assuming it is not a well known or documented preference....

slim scenario I know.......and I accept there is no other reasonable way to address it.

Reilly616

Diamondmaker wrote: »

That a nations balance of power can lay in the hands of one person, who may be aligned or have preference for one party over another and it is entirely up to this person to decide whether to declare this preference or not, assuming it is not a well known or documented preference....

slim scenario I know.......and I accept there is no other reasonable way to address it.

Important cases are taken by more than one judge. In Ireland, the Supreme Court can sit as a 7 judge court. The grand chamber of the ECtHR consists of 17 judges. It would be rare indeed for a case of the importance you're postulating to come before a single judge.

Jo King

delancey42 wrote: »

Who are they ? I think Declan Costelloe is one but who is the other ?

Declan Costello retired years ago. Henry Abbott and George Bermingham were Tds.