Sound Engineering courses & training

pixelperfect

I think this is the right board for this...

I'm interested in doing a course in Sound Engineering after my Leaving Cert, but I don't know a whole lot about where to study it. I was hoping somebody here could maybe point me in the right direction as to what places offer decent training, or if you have studied it, some recommendations or advice. Any info at all would be great stuff.

DamagedTrax

where are you based?

pixelperfect

I'm living in Waterford but I would go to a college that isn't nearby

DamagedTrax

well in the leinster area there is 3 private schools that im aware of.

http://www.pulsecollege.eu/ - pulse recording college (dublin)

http://www.soundtraining.com/content.php?ID=1 - STC (dublin)

http://www.poppyschool.com/Home.html - poppy hill (kildare)

theres also a few CAO courses too - ballyfermot college and bray institute

im sure there's more but these are the ones im aware of.

i did the higher diploma course in pulse and i loved it. you will get out of it what you put into it.

you'll get people saying its not a good idea aswell though. and college wont guarantee you a job in the industry either and the private courses can run into an awful lot of cash (15,000 for 2 years nearly).

i got lucky and landed a house engineers job but there's a lot of people from my year that didnt get anything yet.

if you're looking for the "university experience" then these courses may be a little too full on for you. also consider that its not just sitting about tinkering with sound all day. there's a lot of theory on the physics of sound, health and safety, electrics etc.

a good idea would be to ring up a few of the colleges and ask for a tour. most will happily facilitate you and go thru exactly whats expected of you.

good luck :cool:

flyswatter

Just have to mention DT that the courses in Bray and Ballyfermot are not applied for through the CAO. I know for certain that the Ballyfermot course is application by interview based.

A few similar courses to the two mentioned above are Music Technology in Kylemore College, Ballyfermot and Sound Engineering in Dun Laoghaire.

In terms of CAO courses there is Music Technology in NUI Maynooth, Music Technology and Production in Limerick IT and Music Technology in IT Tralee.

They're the ones I'm aware of.

GTE

Ill have a chat about the Ballyfermot course in BCFE (not Kylemore).

Just before I start, to clear up something Damagedtrax mentioned the BCFE Music Production course is not found through CAO. There are some minimum requirements if you are coming from a leaving cert but it is done through an interview and portfolio process. You are given a place on the strengths of your interview, current knowledge (or lack there of so your willingness to learn) and a few songs that you have recorded and mixed yourself. Things like that, though I am the wrong person to ask about what the interviewers are really expecting. Logic could prevail there if you really think about it.

bbk wrote: »

Very good course offering a wide range of hands on experience that will equip you for jumping into the deep end in studio work, live sound and sound for visual.

Here are the modules and what you do in them
Contextual Studies 2nd year - Learning about how political and economic conditions influenced music production, as well as social things. Say, how drugs influenced music and in turn recording techniques.

Critical Music Listening 2nd year - Basically, you learn how to listen to a track and pin point its flaws. You also learn about the major instrument groups and techniques on how to record them, mix then and pin point possible problem areas.

Music Business and the Entrepreneur 1st year - Does what it says on the tin. You are taught by someone who has been in the business of producing music and you learn about the legal requirements of doing so.

Music, Health and the Law 1st year - The tin tells all here too. You learn about how to be safe when working with music, volume levels, dealing with the heavy weights etc. Also you learn about copyright law and other laws that knowing about is very useful if you want to run a studio or things that.

Principles of Musical Sound 1st year - This is what Id call the physics of musical sound also. You learn about how sound works in detail, acoustics is a big part of it. This again like the above can be tied into running a studio or live sound space as you know what to look out for and what you have contend with when doing sound treatment. New teacher doing it since I did the course however.

Project Realisation 2nd year - You do it in second year and you get an idea for a musical project, your own or with the rock school course and you see it to the end. Very very good for learning the full producing process.
Essentially you come up with an idea for a musical project then you follow it through to the putting it on a CD stage. You get firm criticism on each stage of the process and praise where praise is due. Very good experience.

Research 2nd year - Equips you with the knowledge needed to do the degree courses. Its handy because you learn about how to do a research paper, im sure its invaluable for degree and masters courses.
On top of that, its related to the area of music tech so it can be interesting as you are given the opportunity to gear it towards areas of your interest, which by second year you will have.

Computer Music Systems 1st year - How to run a digital audio workstation and use the popular programs and the processes needed to do audio editing with a digital system.

Audio Post-Production 2nd year - This is a big part of second year. You work with the animation students where you are given the brief of doing the sound for about 3 animations. This can be less music and more sound effects of thd other way around. Its a contrast to what you normally do but its great learning experience.

Audio Recording 1st year - Basically everything to do with audio recording in general. You learn about effects and processing and many other things. Very good module.

Computer Music Production 1st year - Ties in with the comp music systems. After learning about how to use the system you are asked to compose a song. Lots of fun.

Live Sound System Specification 1st year - You learn about how to run a live sound system and how to set it up, learn about the equipment you are using, you play with epic stuff.


Live Sound System Operations 1st year - As above you are put in a purpose built live sound hall and you get to play with ridiculously high spec equipment. You work with bands from the rock school every week and you do sound with them and gain experience. So, you do sound for a set every week. Just there is no audience there

You then have to do sound at a number of all day gigs that the rock schoolers have to do for their course. Again, great experience with great equipment. All the pressure is there. The TV dept count on you for a good mix. The rock schoolers count on you for good sound on stage and everyone counts on you for a good front of house mix.

Modern Composition 2nd year - In a way continues on from the computer music compostion module. You learn more about composing and then after that it ties in with the post production animation projects where music composition can be a huge part.


Sound Creation and Manipulation 2nd year- You learn about synthesis and how to create sounds and instruments using a program called Reason. My explanation cant do it justice but its damn fun.

Studio Production 2nd year - Essentially more learning about what goes on in the studio. Less about learning about difference components of a studio and more about doing it!


Overall its a very well balanced and extremely rounded course and it gives you a great basis in many aspects. Many of the modules tie in together, which is why some of my explanations of the modules are better then others.

Its very practical and for me thats the best thing about it. Not only do you learn the hows, whys and whats that go on behind the scenes but you also put what you learn into practice.

The course ties in with the rock school and animation courses like I said. You have weekly studio sessions with rock school bands in first and second year, weekly bands and a few gigs in first year.

EDIT:
Although, like any other course of this nature, there is a lot of learning how to use the specific equipment in the college. However you also learn the process. What I mean by that is you go into detail about what a certain thing is doing rather then the program you are using it in. Same goes for the synthesis. you aren't being taught how to use the program, which is Reason, but you are learning about all the components which are the same across the board with any kind of synthesiser so what you learn on this program can be transferred to anything.


Facilities that you have to your disposal:

Analogue/digital hybrid studio with very high quality equipment. (1st year)
Digital studio, again some quality equipment in there (2nd year)
Live sound hall with outstanding quality equipment. It also has a Protools recording system so you can record the live sets and mix those. Brilliant!
MIDI booths - these are rooms where students can do project work. Genelec monitors, Mackie and Yamaha mixers and Korg keyboards.
Logic
Abelton
Cubase
Reason and Record
Soundforge
Sony Vegas.

High quality monitoring is standard in all rooms.

The qualification you get can let you go straight into the world of work, and its something that will put you ahead of others given its such a practical course. The BTEC HND has a good reputation internationally.

It also lets you skip a year or two of degree courses. in the UK.

For me, this course in all respects outdoes all the courses in the republic I have researched in terms of sound engineering/music tech/music production area. It was my first choice after secondary, miles ahead of what Maynooth offers IMO.

If you use it as a standalone qualification to get you into work and work your way up or you do it with the intention of then doing the degree its very worth while and rewarding.

If you want a degree I think the experience you get from the course is well worth the extra year or two that you will spend if you do the Bally course first then an Irish degree or if you do the Bally course and enter a British degree course in second or third year of their courses.

I could have just done the Maynooth degree course and been happy but I know that I would never have gotten the experience of BCFE anywhere else.

Finally the teaching staff are brilliant. Simple as.

Slightly edited from the thread in the Ballyfermot college forum.

Hope it helps.

Oh, btw. The BCFE course secured me a place in Queens Uni in Belfast where I am studying a BSC in Music Technology and Sonic Arts.
4 years of education in total across the two colleges and two qualifications.

pixelperfect

Thanks lads all this info is great. So Ballyfermot is a good choice? Judging from the last post it seems the way to go, but if anyone has a different opinion I'd love to hear it.

GTE

pixelperfect wrote: »

Thanks lads all this info is great. So Ballyfermot is a good choice? Judging from the last post it seems the way to go, but if anyone has a different opinion I'd love to hear it.

Indeed, I got a lot out of the course and you will only get as much out as you put in yourself but to be fair to the other courses Im sure there are people who got as much out of them as I did from Bally. They may not be on the boards.ie though.

Best of luck!

DamagedTrax

only thing with ballyfermot, and anyone that went there can correct me if im wrong, but as far as im aware they dont have an analogue desk to train on, digital only?

this to me would be a serious drawback of the course.

GTE

DamagedTrax wrote: »

only thing with ballyfermot, and anyone that went there can correct me if im wrong, but as far as im aware they dont have an analogue desk to train on, digital only?

this to me would be a serious drawback of the course.

There is a D&R Orion analogue console in the main studio hooked up to a Radar digital multitrack.

There is a Midas Heritage live sound desk in the Main Hall.

There is also a dedicated digital recording studio in another building. Yamaha O2R.

A lot of the work is done on DAW's but if you want to you can do it on the analogue gear if you wish. You are not forced into either. It will be up to you to do it.

DamagedTrax

i stand corrected

GTE

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i stand corrected

Good question though, its almost taken for granted or just not thought of though lack of knowledge by newbies getting into it all.

studiorat

New course in Music Production starting in Dundalk Institute of Technology next September. Very much about Music Production as opposed to music and sound industry stuff covered by the C&G courses. Judging by their new facilities opened this year it should be a really good course.

seannash

studiorat wrote: »

New course in Music Production starting in Dundalk Institute of Technology next September. Very much about Music Production as opposed to music and sound industry stuff covered by the C&G courses. Judging by their new facilities opened this year it should be a really good course.

where did you hear about that?got any links

flyswatter

studiorat wrote: »

New course in Music Production starting in Dundalk Institute of Technology next September. Very much about Music Production as opposed to music and sound industry stuff covered by the C&G courses. Judging by their new facilities opened this year it should be a really good course.

I went to the open day last year and they told me that course would be starting this September. Was hoping to do it but they then cancelled it.

Have you any links, haven't seen anything on their website?

ebaysellerrob

BCFE is a joke they stopped the course half way through and now the people doing it have to find an different subject for next year.

Go to pulse for protools and studio stuff(not really any work in it here unless you win the lotto)

Go to STC to get a really good live sound education in their 2 year course(this includes studio stuff and daw but they will have you sink or swim in the button factory once a week,more likely to get job doing live sound)

Poppy hill is near me but dont know much about it other than you need to be driving to get there.

Barry along with any one else I know from pulse in my year or the year after me has been very luck to get the studio work.Dont think that you walk out of these places and are offered a job the holy trinity in this industry is city and guilds driving licence and who you know and who knows your face in a good way.Cold hard fact is if you want studio work your either renting it for a session cos a band liked you doing their live sound or you have helped set up the studio(even then this country has a lot of studios)

GTE

ebaysellerrob wrote: »

BCFE is a joke they stopped the course half way through and now the people doing it have to find an different subject for next year.

How do you mean? When did they do this?

GTE

Well, he hasnt read the thread since that but Ill just say that they didnt do anything like that in my time of being there, nor did they after or for sometime before I was there.

dasdog

I didn't finish year two (it was the first time they ran the course for two years) because I couldn't hack being a broke 22 year old student scraping money for the most basic of things let alone owning some decent hardware (which was way more exp back then). Dropped out after finishing year one but I enjoyed the course and yep, such claims really should be backed up if true.

Fart

Im going into my second year degree in Cardiff, Wales. It's great and have great professional studios. Just put the work in and you'll learn loads.

Link here

DamagedTrax

Fart wrote: »

Just put the work in and you'll learn loads.

QFT :cool:

snoopy_10

Im looking to do a course in sound engineering, lighting and general av stuff...ive been a dj / av hire guy for about ten years but would love to do a specific course in it but dont want to learn stuff i already know etc...want to do it part time if possible...interested in doing live setup with bands...creating lighting shows for plays etc....would love to work in a theratre doing sound or light for the shows etc...anyone know of a good spot to do a part time mid week evening course in the southeast ??