CPC, please explain it to me

pa990

i've looked at the CPC section on the RSA website, but i'm still confused

Heres my situation:
I've had a category C licence since Sept '05, and Category D since March '07

I have never done anything with regard to the CPC as i am currently not using any of these categories.

What do i need to do now in order to get a CPC, or should i even bother, ie. would it be easier to get one now, or should i not bother until i need to use them professionally.

Am i entitled to inherited rights ?

What dos the test consist of / cost?
Is it a case of just turning up, and listening to a lecture, or is a written or practical test involved?


(also i'm thinking about dong the EC test in the next few months hopefully)

donkey balls

H i pa990 you have whats known as grand father rights which means you dont have to sit any of the CPC exams, you are only required to do one module per year in order to drive either a bus/truck for a living.
in the event that you dont use your licence to drive professionaly your not required to sit any of the modules,i did mine last week and it was the biggest load of b*ll*X even the instructer agreed with us.

Wishbone Ash

I have acquired rights and I am doing the module this weekend. I am not really utilising the licences at the moment but thought I do it anyway.

I have a couple of questions:

1. If I don't do the CPC by September, can I do it anytime after that (presuming I don't drive buses or trucks in the interim)?

2. What exactly is meant by 'driving for a living'?

A friend (a farmer) with a truck, uses it to take his own produce to the Dublin market but doesn't drive for anyone else. He has been given conflicting opinions on his requirements re: CPC as he is not an 'employee'.

donkey balls

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I have acquired rights and I am doing the module this weekend. I am not really utilising the licences at the moment but thought I do it anyway.

I have a couple of questions:

1. If I don't do the CPC by September, can I do it anytime after that (presuming I don't drive buses or trucks in the interim)?

yes you can do the courses anytime after sept 10th

2. What exactly is meant by 'driving for a living'?
your making a living/getting paid for driving either a bus/truck

A friend (a farmer) with a truck, uses it to take his own produce to the Dublin market but doesn't drive for anyone else. He has been given conflicting opinions on his requirements re: CPC as he is not an 'employee'.

your farmer friend by the looks of it does not fall into the excemptions list not unless the truck travels under 45kph, although he would be exempt from the tacho rules if his trip is 100k radius.

AllGunsBlazing

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

A friend (a farmer) with a truck, uses it to take his own produce to the Dublin market but doesn't drive for anyone else. He has been given conflicting opinions on his requirements re: CPC as he is not an 'employee'.

According to CPC rules a plumber who drives a truck for purposes of transporting his materials does not require a CPC as he is not a professional driver, technically speaking.

Your friend is pretty much doing the same as far as I can tell and as such should not require a CPC. But I guarantee you would get conflicting answers from different ppl who are supposed to be running this farce.

I did my first module in May and when questioned about the rules the instructor admitted it was all a bit vague and that no one knew anything for sure. I asked him what would happen to a driver who dropped out of the job for 5 years and didn't take any of the modules - would they simply have to complete 35 hours of training or would they be stripped of the CPC and have to take the tests in order to regain it?

He said he honestly didn't know. (And this guy was supposedly one of the top instructors brought in especially from Dublin.)

jimmyw

AllGunsBlazing wrote: »

According to CPC rules a plumber who drives a truck for purposes of transporting his materials does not require a CPC as he is not a professional driver, technically speaking.

Your friend is pretty much doing the same as far as I can tell and as such should not require a CPC. But I guarantee you would get conflicting answers from different ppl who are supposed to be running this farce.

I did my first module in May and when questioned about the rules the instructor admitted it was all a bit vague and that no one knew anything for sure. I asked him what would happen to a driver who dropped out of the job for 5 years and didn't take any of the modules - would they simply have to complete 35 hours of training or would they be stripped of the CPC and have to take the tests in order to regain it?

He said he honestly didn't know. (And this guy was supposedly one of the top instructors brought in especially from Dublin.)

I would guess that you could drive but you would have to do the training and therefore have to show the certs for it.Hardly have to do the tests.I have to do mine this Sunday and I am not looking forward to it and would like to be somewhere else such as a vintage show thats on in my area.Did anyone hear on liveline last week on this very subject and not one of the callers talked positively on it, and also said that the instructors had not got a clue about it either.I am not sure if I even want to be doing it but I have to give it a try anyway.


P.S how long does it last? Some people said on LL that they were out at three in the afternoon instead of 5.

AllGunsBlazing

jimmyw wrote: »

P.S how long does it last? Some people said on LL that they were out at three in the afternoon instead of 5.

I got the full day treatment. For the last two hours he was basically reading everything from the book.

This guy was brought in by my local driving school especially because of the complaints about poor instructors, and even he was a bit rubbish.

Chances are you won't learn much that you didn't already know and what you do learn will be of not much practical benefit. Like I said in my previous post, for the questions we asked he had next to no answers for. I don't think it was his fault, I got the distinct impression from him that no one from the RSA on down really know how this is supposed to be implemented.

Call me cynical but the whole thing smacks of a money making scheme.

ha-ya-said-what

I think it was the Joe Duffy show they were talking about the CPC on last week.

Now I know it's a great big load of s***e but I that show was the funniest one in a long time!! Have a listen to it on the Liveline podcast

jimmyw

Money making scheme? No never, perish the thought:rolleyes:. Its all to do with safety ;)How could you suggest such a thing:P. I nearly got an infraction from the mods before on the RSA, so cant say too much about them

pa990

will i need to do two cpc's, one for C and one for D ?
What is the Cost?
Will i just need to do 1 module this yr before Sept or will i have to do 5?

where do i apply to do it, i'm in cork


(i'm gonna recheck the rsa site)

pa990

had another look at the RSA site, they seem to have more info than when i last looked at it.

I'm still confused, i think a phone call to the RSA tomorrow is in order.

Also cant get the locator to work to list CPC trainers to work.. it wil only display carlow..


UGH...

Does anyone have a non 1890 phone number for them

edit: found it


Road Safety Authority

More information on Driver CPC

CPC Unit
Road Safety Authority
Primrose Hill
Moy Valley Business Park
Ballina
Co Mayo
Email: cpc@rsa.ie
Tel: 096 25015

loobylou

pa990 wrote: »

will i need to do two cpc's, one for C and one for D ?
What is the Cost?
Will i just need to do 1 module this yr before Sept or will i have to do 5?

where do i apply to do it, i'm in cork


(i'm gonna recheck the rsa site)

There is a common CPC for C and D for 4 (yearly) modules but the fifth will be specific to each.
So in all you will need to do 6 modules.

pa990

heres the link from Joe Duffy and the CPC, Originally broadcast on August 10th

http://www.rte.ie/podcasts/2010/pc/pod-v-10081021m09slivelinecpc.mp3


i havent gotten around to listening to it yet

lazlo

Please send me a PM if you need to get your CPC training done. I know trainers in Dublin, Limerick, Waterford, Cork and Galway.

pa990

lazlo wrote: »

Please send me a PM if you need to get your CPC training done. I know trainers in Dublin, Limerick, Waterford, Cork and Galway.

thanks. but i've already booked a course

jimmyw

Well I had me first cpc today, so the race is on.I was hoping the day would be p*****g down so I would not feel bad about been stuck indoors and there was a vintage day on today in my area and maybe it would be cancelled so I could go to it when its on again.But mother nature had other ideas, the bitch choose to have a smashing day, ta very much:(.Anyway, I thought that I would be doing the first module but no, I was doing the 4th one.Apparently it does not matter which ones you do so long as you do all 5/6 as the case may be.The fella that was doing it was not bad, at least he had a truck and bus licence so he knew what he was talking about which is a bonus.He used to work for the RSA and lets say he was not always complementary about them:P.He himself failed the other type of cpc with all the bloody exams and he said that he would never do them.I agree with him there.Its very hard I hear.We had three breaks but none free though;).Not as bad as I thought it would be.

macplaxton

What I want to know is why the DoT made a horse's arse of implementing the directive. Gold plating at it finest.

Why do you I have to do 7 hours per year? (In the UK, it can be done flexibly, provide 35hrs is done in the 5 year period. So all 35hrs could be done now, or in the week before Sept 2014, to be qualified up to Sept 2019)

An additional 7 hours has to be completed to cover both cat C & D. (42hrs against the required 35hrs)

I've done module one of this racket and it's a load of tosh. I agree with some sort of training and the concept of it, but the execution of it is very poor.

Wishbone Ash

macplaxton wrote: »

Why do you I have to do 7 hours per year? (In the UK, it can be done flexibly, provide 35hrs is done in the 5 year period

The RSA were afraid that most Irish licence holders would simply put it on the long finger and wait until the last month of the 5 years before doing it causing chaos.

....And they would be right as most truck drivers are only doing the first module now because time is running out!

I did it on Saturday (8.30 to 3pm). I found it a bit tedious not helped by a trainer who read directly from the manual and then read the same thing over again with a powerpoint. I was annoyed at the constant Garda/RSA/Customs bashing that went on from many of the drivers present with silly comments like "them c**nts should be made do it". :rolleyes: There were a few older men present who looked like they were in their seventies and seemed a bit bewildered by the whole thing.

I did think however that much of it was "preaching to the converted" and that it might have been more beneficial to have category B holders do it instead.

Wishbone Ash wrote:

A friend (a farmer) with a truck, uses it to take his own produce to the Dublin market but doesn't drive for anyone else. He has been given conflicting opinions on his requirements re: CPC as he is not an 'employee'.

To answer my own question - yes, he is exempt but he decided to do it anyway just in case he ever needed to drive for someone else or transport someone else's produce.

macplaxton

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

The RSA were afraid that most Irish licence holders would simply put it on the long finger and wait until the last month of the 5 years before doing it causing chaos.

I'm sure they were afraid, but it also leaves no option to do all 35 hrs early. I can see it being chaos in 2014 in the UK, but then the training providers can go ker-ching with the pricing, whilst VOSA go ker-ching with the fines.

The other thing was having an extra 7 hours to cover cat D as well vs. UK's "do it all" in 35 hours.

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I found it a bit tedious not helped by a trainer who read directly from the manual and then read the same thing over again with a powerpoint.

Sounds very familiar that approach. I had to keep diving out the door briefly to grab another cup of tea to keep me from nodding off.

donkey balls

in the UK if you hold an ADR cert that counts towards 21hrs of the 35hrs training,i asked the RSA about it here they said NO:mad: to drivers who hold a current ADR.

currins_02

Just reading through this board (and others re CPC) and I note how the general perception of the CPC concept is negative and amount of misinformation is huge.

As a coach driver (who also holds all truck categories and has driven trucks all over UK and Ireland) I for one must be unique in that I am all for the programme.

Regarding exemptions I was advised by a trainer (albeit there may be a vested interest but sensible advice nonetheless) that unless the RSA would confirm same in writing it is better to err on the side of caution and do the training. I have a family member who works as a mechanic and uses a recovery truck (on occasion I drive it) to move vehicles between 2 garages he owns. When we contacted the RSA about this they said if a tradesman uses a vehicle of over 3500kg GVW to move their TOOLS it is classed as a mobile workshop and is exempt but to move MATERIALS would require CPC. We asked him about the car on the recovery truck and the guy I spoke with said he'd "probably be ok" but when asked could he send on a fax/letter he changed his tune and said he would advise the guy to do the training as the cost had fallen dramatically! So my advice would follow that of the trainer, don't try to interpret the rules yourself, if the RSA give you a clear written exemption don't train, if they don't, do the course! At the end of the day if you can interpret it one way a guard/RSA officer (or insurance guy in the case of an accident) can interpret it another!

I have done Module 4 and am doing Module 3 this weekend. The Mod 4 course took from 830am to about 4 and was informative and interesting. I was open minded and found that my knowledge of drivers hours and working time to be out of date and welcomed the update. I'd prefer do this course than go through that butterfly in the stomach feeling when pulling into the VOSA checkpoint outside Holyhead anyday! THe trainer said their company had been on the go for over 30 years and had a digitach training unit which meant we could see how to do it and actually practice.

I wanted to do Module 1 this year as it is something that interests me (Eco Driving) and my training company informed me they will not sell this course pending a review in September. The girl on the phones explained the content was currently poor and almost impossible to effectively teach in a classroom so they were going to wait out and see what the RSA review in September brought. I asked how come alot of other trainers were selling it and she said she didn't know but possibly that's all the other guys were approved to do. Apparently each trainer is approved for individual modules based on individual experience/qualifications. She said that they had guys with H&S degrees who qualify to teach Module 3, yet driving experience with a basic teaching award gets approval for Mod 4 while mechanicing experience with a basic teaching award gets module 1 etc etc. She reckons alot of guys have gotten approval for 1/2 modules and are out there hoping for a cash cow but destroying the whole thing for professional outfits and at the end of the day, the RSA.

I heard the Joe Duffy podcast but I'm not a "talk to Joe" fan. It's typical of his populist ratings seeking style. A completely one sided converstaion with not one dissenting voice from either a driver, the RSA or a trainer and he simply keeps winding the callers up with his quips. They all seem to have done Mod 1 by the descriptions (which my trainer won't sell yet) and some moaned that they HAD to take days off etc to do it. I wanted to do it this Saturday so I booked it in mid July - not rocket science that this close to the deadline the space will be getting tight. I resent him doing adlib tot ups of what a national industry is earning when we (yes, you and me) are paying him a 6 figure sum for around 2 hours work per day (i.e. 10 hours a week) I'm sure his mental arithmetic would not like to put out what his hourly rate is!

All in all I'm for the programme as by reading the course content of ALL modules and doing abit of research I find it has less to do with actual driving but more to do with all the things us Irish driver s traditionally were lacks at - drivers hours, tacho operation, healthy eating, customer service etc. All important but traditionally we all just winged it, I have in my 15 year professional driving career anyway. Just looking at a flyer I was given at Mod 4 last year that states that "85% of Irish truck/bus drivers stopped at checkpoints in the UK/France during 2008 were unable to produce a print out from their digital tachograph vehicle unit" - come on lads!! I'm driving an 07 coach since new with digital unit and until I did the course I couldn't print out either but these are the stupid things we are getting pulled over in the UK/on the continent for.

Rant over, just wanted to add my tuppence worth as someone who sees the positives on offer in this programme.

Del2005

I did module 4 last Thursday. While I don't currently drive I did it to keep the options open.

The person doing my course said that the RSA don't recommend doing the 5(or 6) modules together but they never said you can't. He'd had some people who did a few modules earlier in the year.

The one thing the drivers where giving out about was that even when they do the daily vehicle check and inform the boss, of certain companies, the truck/bus/trailer is dangerous they are of told to drive or collect their P45. What's the driver to do? They need the job, but if they get stopped all fines/penalties go on the driver not the dangerous owners.

donkey balls

currins_02 wrote: »

Just reading through this board (and others re CPC) and I note how the general perception of the CPC concept is negative and amount of misinformation is huge.

As a coach driver (who also holds all truck categories and has driven trucks all over UK and Ireland) I for one must be unique in that I am all for the programme.

Regarding exemptions I was advised by a trainer (albeit there may be a vested interest but sensible advice nonetheless) that unless the RSA would confirm same in writing it is better to err on the side of caution and do the training. I have a family member who works as a mechanic and uses a recovery truck (on occasion I drive it) to move vehicles between 2 garages he owns. When we contacted the RSA about this they said if a tradesman uses a vehicle of over 3500kg GVW to move their TOOLS it is classed as a mobile workshop and is exempt but to move MATERIALS would require CPC. We asked him about the car on the recovery truck and the guy I spoke with said he'd "probably be ok" but when asked could he send on a fax/letter he changed his tune and said he would advise the guy to do the training as the cost had fallen dramatically! So my advice would follow that of the trainer, don't try to interpret the rules yourself, if the RSA give you a clear written exemption don't train, if they don't, do the course! At the end of the day if you can interpret it one way a guard/RSA officer (or insurance guy in the case of an accident) can interpret it another!

I have done Module 4 and am doing Module 3 this weekend. The Mod 4 course took from 830am to about 4 and was informative and interesting. I was open minded and found that my knowledge of drivers hours and working time to be out of date and welcomed the update. I'd prefer do this course than go through that butterfly in the stomach feeling when pulling into the VOSA checkpoint outside Holyhead anyday! THe trainer said their company had been on the go for over 30 years and had a digitach training unit which meant we could see how to do it and actually practice.

I wanted to do Module 1 this year as it is something that interests me (Eco Driving) and my training company informed me they will not sell this course pending a review in September. The girl on the phones explained the content was currently poor and almost impossible to effectively teach in a classroom so they were going to wait out and see what the RSA review in September brought. I asked how come alot of other trainers were selling it and she said she didn't know but possibly that's all the other guys were approved to do. Apparently each trainer is approved for individual modules based on individual experience/qualifications. She said that they had guys with H&S degrees who qualify to teach Module 3, yet driving experience with a basic teaching award gets approval for Mod 4 while mechanicing experience with a basic teaching award gets module 1 etc etc. She reckons alot of guys have gotten approval for 1/2 modules and are out there hoping for a cash cow but destroying the whole thing for professional outfits and at the end of the day, the RSA.

I heard the Joe Duffy podcast but I'm not a "talk to Joe" fan. It's typical of his populist ratings seeking style. A completely one sided converstaion with not one dissenting voice from either a driver, the RSA or a trainer and he simply keeps winding the callers up with his quips. They all seem to have done Mod 1 by the descriptions (which my trainer won't sell yet) and some moaned that they HAD to take days off etc to do it. I wanted to do it this Saturday so I booked it in mid July - not rocket science that this close to the deadline the space will be getting tight. I resent him doing adlib tot ups of what a national industry is earning when we (yes, you and me) are paying him a 6 figure sum for around 2 hours work per day (i.e. 10 hours a week) I'm sure his mental arithmetic would not like to put out what his hourly rate is!

All in all I'm for the programme as by reading the course content of ALL modules and doing abit of research I find it has less to do with actual driving but more to do with all the things us Irish driver s traditionally were lacks at - drivers hours, tacho operation, healthy eating, customer service etc. All important but traditionally we all just winged it, I have in my 15 year professional driving career anyway. Just looking at a flyer I was given at Mod 4 last year that states that "85% of Irish truck/bus drivers stopped at checkpoints in the UK/France during 2008 were unable to produce a print out from their digital tachograph vehicle unit" - come on lads!! I'm driving an 07 coach since new with digital unit and until I did the course I couldn't print out either but these are the stupid things we are getting pulled over in the UK/on the continent for.

Rant over, just wanted to add my tuppence worth as someone who sees the positives on offer in this programme.

yep your the only driver that i have come across that agrees with this poxy CPC, any driver i know is well versed in tacho regs&WTD and digi tachos.
the person that did our CPC course was an ex truck driver&hazchem trainer, they even agreed with what the lads on the jooooe duuuuffffyy show said.
i asked someone in the RSA CPC section about having to do one module for the rest of my career and what would the driver learn after the five years of training,the response i got was well eh things might change regarding rules&regs what could change that you need to do a one day course?:rolleyes:.
as for the VOSA(private english enforcing company)there nothing but a shower of text book merchants who like pulling over the paddy to fine them for small crappy things that wont incur on road safety.

actually the only thing we learned was that if you see a blind person and their white stick has a red circle it also means that they are deaf,also i have to laugh at the RSA booklet with pics of american tracter units and trailers9with no side rails must have been a copy&paste job

currins_02

I, like most other drivers, reckoned for years I knew about hours etc. The long and short of it is that until I did Module 4 last year I still thought that I could split my 45min rest into 3x15min breaks while in fact this changed a few years back that you can now only split it to a 15min & 30min in that order. I was on the boat form the UK this morning and in the drivers lounge I raised this point to do a straw pole, of 11 Irish drivers (both truck and bus) 8 swore blind you could still do 3x15, 2 said you couldn't split it and I was alone in beleiving the new regs. Most of the 8 still reckon I'm an arsehole and they are right and when they come to a checkpoint they'll say the enforcement guys are arseholes too!! I'd rather be an arsehole with no fine/prohibiton any day than a fool with one.

I don't beleive that even half the drivers in this country can use digitachs right and I see the proof every day. Most drivers din't set modes right, can't use the boat mode at all and very basic training deals with that.

I do agree that it is a mystery where this is going to goafter the first 5 year cycle but would hope that the RSA have learned from the mistakes they made by waiting to the last minute with the programme intorduction and will work on an updated set of modules in good time.

At the end of the day, I am open to learning and open to bettering myself and thus I don't have an issue with the programme. I realise my own faults and knowledge gaps but most professional drivers in Ireland and alot in the UK simply know it all and don't feel they can take anything form this programme. That's their right but I have mine too and I see the proof day in day out of how lacking we are, people mightn't like that but so be it.

Paddy is an easy target for VOSA because they are almost guaranteed to find a fault, instead of moaning about it and cursing VOSA why don't we be the bigger men and update our knowledge and cruise through checkpoints with everything right. That's where I personally want to be so I'm willing to back this programme. (For the first 5 year cycle anyway)

shommiepolo

I am after doing 4 cpc courses in clonmel co tipperary only to find out now when I went to apply for my card they have no record of me in the cpc system the tester name is john maher his phone number 086 1291392 in a business pk clonmel co Tipperary he was payed cash now this phone number when I call it it dose not exist anymore I have a sneaky feeling I am after being coned out of 32 hours of my life and 400euro lighter to my pocket and now I will probably have to go back and do the whole lot again, has this happened to anybody else?? I hope I am not the only one that was done, I am after being advised to contact the head office in mayo but these are the peoples that gave the man the job in the first place I honestly think they should send on my cpc card to me in all fairness I am driving over 30years all over Europe

donkey balls

For every module that you complete the instructor should have issued you with a receipt as prove of taken the course,Also the RSA should have records of every venue that a CPC has been held along with the instructor.

shommiepolo

yea have all the above, after I paying my money I got receipts and cpc books but the man in question did not register me because the rsa have no record of me doing the cpc modules in the first place..

donkey balls

The guy giving the CPC class will have been registered with the RSA,On their website it will have r a list of registered instructors see can you find him on that and let the RSA do the checks for you.
After all they are supposed to over see the bolloxilgy of a course,Also for future reference do not pay more than €50 for a CPC course that's what most companies charge.