Some history and stats on Moyross

Amazotheamazing

Taken from the new website, moyross.ie



Mission Statement:

Moyross is a local authority housing estate on the north side of Limerick built between 1973 and 1987and forms the parish of Corpus Christi. In 2006 the estate had 1,160 houses with 19 acres of open green areas divided into 12 parks and a population of 3,468. By 2009 the housing stock has been reduced in preparation for the regeneration programme to 900 houses. Up to 2008 the estate was unusual in that it spannned two electoral areas, with 728 houses part of the Ballynanty DED of Limerick City Council, and 432 houses in the Limerick North Rural DED of Limerick County Council.

This division led to residents in Pineview Gardens, Creavel Park and Delmege Park feeling disenfranchised. These areas experienced very high levels of violence and intimidation in 2006 and fed into the very high turnover of tenants in these three parks (10% each year). For a number of years there is no one on Limerick City Councils waiting list wishing to be housed in Moyross. All this led in a large part to the appointment of John Fitzgerald to draw up a report to the Government and the subsequent establishment of the Limerick Regeneration Agency in 2007.

History:

At the outset Moyross was built with no infrastructure to cater for the size of the population. Corpus Christi Church, Primary School and the houses of the Mercy Sisters and LSA provided the only community facilities until 1988. Two years earlier the first community development training took place and led to Moyross Partners becoming the catalyst for subsequent developments including a Family Resource Centre, Community Enterprise Centre and Health Centre. Later the Moyross Development Company was set up providing a range of youth activities from the disused Shannon Development Industrial Bays.

From the 1980's Moyross experienced extreme levels of poverty and disadvantage with an unemployment figure of 84% at that time. The community has had very high dependency on social welfare and a disproportionately young population. In 2001 Moyross with, Ballynanty and Kileely was designated one of the 25 most disadvantage areas in Ireland under the RAPID programme. Despite this, Moyross is characterised by strong community involvement and a commitment to working in partnership with statutory agencies to develop a range of facilities and services to meet its needs.

Socio-Economic Profile:

Population:
The total population decreased by 7% from 4,448 in 1992 to 4,110 in 2002 and reduced again to 3,468 in 2006. (CSO 2006)

Age Dependency:
43.8% are under the age of 25 years 7% are aged over 65 years.(CSO 2006)

Lone Parent Families:
63.9 % of households are headed by people parenting alone. (CSO 2006)

In a local survey of lone parents, 78% are the only adult in their household. Pineview Gardens and Delmege Park have the highest concentration of lone parent families in the area.

Education and Training

29% of the population of Moyross left school at or before the age of 15. (CSO 2006) There are 3 pre-schools run by Corpus Christi School, Moyross Community Crèche and Respond Housing.

Corpus Christi Primary School caters for 294 children.

There is no secondary school in the community but St. Nessans Community College is adjacent to it as is the Limerick Institute of Technology.

A partnership between LIT and the Moyross Community Enterprise Centre completed a feasibility study on expanding the Institute into Moyross with the building of a Village Centre /LIT Campus North and formed the nucleus for the Northside Regeneration Agency Master Plan

Employment

The unemployment rate in 2006 was 24.6% 13% of people employed are engaged in Community Employment Projects or Job Initiative Schemes. Currently 140 people are employed on CE and JI Schemes by 4 different sponsoring bodies including Moyross Community Enterprise Centre, Moyross Development Company and Barnardos.

Moyross Community Enterprise Centre is the single biggest employer in the community employing 96 people in total. Speedline Engineering was the only significant commercial employer in Moyross employing 56 people. The new shopping centre has created an additional 30 jobs.

Housing:

There is a high standard of housing in Moyross. 69% are rented from the local authority. 31% are owner-occupied or on tenant purchase. 100 houses were boarded up across the whole estate in November 2006 and have subsequently been demolished along with another 160. The Northside Regeneration Master Plan envisages the demolition of all the existing housing stock on a phased basis over the next 10 years.

Services Available in the Area:

The range of groups and facilities now operating include:

Moyross Partners (umbrella body for community groups)
Moyross Community Enterprise Centre responsible for:
Moyross Action Centre,
Community Crèche, Pre School and Out Of School Service
After Schools Programme,
Moyross Millennium Playground
All Weather Pitch and Handball / Hurling Wall
Two Soccer and GAA Pitches
Community Meals for the Elderly
Moyross Community Mini Bus,
CCTV Security System on the estate,
Moyross Environmental Project, Youth Clubs
7 Micro-Enterprise Units in Sarsfield Gardens housing:
Changing Ireland - the Community Development Programme Newsletter
T Fashions
Guys and Dolls Hair and Beauty Salon
Moyross Adult Education Centre
The community centre compound also accommodates:
Moyross Residents Forum
Garda sub-office,
Moyross Health Centre,
Caherdavin Credit Union branch office,
Local Employment Service
Community Development Network Moyross
The Moyross Development Company operates from 6 converted factory units housing youth facilities including:
Millennium Jobs Club
Corpus Christi Youth Development Group
Shades Youth Club
Bayze Side Youth Club
Corpus Christi Boxing
Corpus Christi Kung Fu Clubs
Corpus Christi Pipes and Drum Band,
Snooker Hall, Indoor Soccer Pitch and Motor Cross Track.
Ceim ar Cheim Probation Project
Other groups and services are:

Moyross Adult Education Group
Corpus Christi Pastoral Council
Corpus Christi Primary School
Bereavement Support Group
Rainbows Support Programme
Moyross Youth Intervention Project
Barnardos with 2 family support centres in Castle Park and Craeval Park
Moyross Utd. Soccer Club.
Thomond Rugby Club
Senior Citizens Club
Respond Social Housing Community Centre
Suaimhneas
LIT Sarsfield GAA Club
Extern
Northside We're OK Youth Initiative
Northstar Family Support Project
Northside Local Education Committee
Local Community Based Education Initiative
Franciscan Friars
Northside Youth Café
Northside Youthreach
Northside Learning Hub
Moyross Community Companions
There are small shops operating for many years in Delmege Park and Castle Park.

In 2004 the Watch House Cross Shopping Centre opened the complex houses some of the above named community projects plus:

Library
Northside Regeneration Agency
Commercial outlets include:

Super Valu supermarket with ATM facility
Pharmacy
Delicatessen
Petrol station
Bookmakers
Hair and Beauty Salon
Fast Food Take-away
Chinese Take Away
Pet Shop

There is a public bus service every half hour to the city centre on the 306 to Craeval Park and 309 to Pineview Gardens

Amazotheamazing

Interesting stats, in one sense Moyross seems to be improving over the last 20 years, more facilities, less unemployment, etc. On the otherhand, it has been the site of serious violent crime over the last decade, though things seem to be quieter since the horrendous attack on the kids, Gavin and Millie. Do people think Moyross is improving or not?

I also think it's worth noting Moyross' population is relatively low, low enough for minor changes to have large affects, both positively and negatively.

Story_Bud

Fair Play For The Info

bigpink

This doesnt sound like a disadvantaged area so.Theres a big double standard in what is done for youth in some areas when they should also be doing stuff for the youth in the expanding suburbs
My friend did Teaching practice in Moyross and said the school gets the best of stuff cause its a "bad"area
Best one i heard in ages was only in the last weeks Northside regeneration paid for a group of youths to go on a walking holiday to Spain along with the youth leaders and 2 Guards had to go,one of the youth leaders broke their leg so the group had to flight home at extra expense grrrr

padma

One of the main problems in Moyross IMO is the fence surrounding it blocking entry in to caherdavin, you've got 1 entrance through watch house cross 2 if you include going through Ballynanty. This shows the level of planning on an estate by the local Council. Effectively seperating the people of Moyross from their neighbours, this was IMO a deliberate planning exercise by our local government.Similar in many respects to Southill. There was a time before Dell arrived if you wanted a job and the prospector looked at your C.V and saw Moyross or Southill you were cast aside. Other areas with similar problems popped up in Dublin.

Captain Average

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Taken from the new website, moyross.ie


Lone Parent Families:
63.9 % of households are headed by people parenting alone. (CSO 2006)

This one jumped out at me :eek:. I knew it would be high, but holy crap!
You'd wonder does this tie in with the high levels of school drop outs? These people need to be educated. Or.... could it be that they've been educated to know how to use the system? "Have a baby, get a house"...
Obviously not everybody thinks like that, but I would guess that there are a not insignificant number of people who know how to use the system better than most of us.

padma

wasn't there a statistic last year that Limerick city has the highest percentage of lone parents in the country? Saying that I know lots of people who are lone parents and not from corporation estates. Maybe its a reflection of the problems experienced in relationships rather than an education problem.

bigpink

But look at all the services they have out there??
How big this fence?

Caped Crusader

Where did this info come from? Is the same level of detail available for other areas? It would be interesting to compare this to castletroy or raheen

padma

The fence runs from thomond park to the bottom of delmage, barrets shop caherdavin with 20 ft Walls and barbed wire

bigpink

I know they is fencing around LIT carpark and pitches but thats for security dont think a fence caused any problems

padma

Include the wall along woodview towarda bottom of caherdavin. So why isn'there a fence at the entrance for security. No other area in Limerick has this situation of an area not being connected to another even though they are neighbours. It is the economic divide nothing else.

Amazotheamazing

bigpink wrote: »

But look at all the services they have out there??
How big this fence?

A lot of the services are simply things that exist in places like Castletroy too, with the exception of the employment ones which until recently weren't needed in Castletroy (for example). A big problem is the services were put in 20 years after the place was built which did lead to disenfranchisement with the city.

I take it from your comments you've never actually been to Moyross? You should take a drive out to see the place, it's hard to believe such a place could exist in modern Ireland largely due to a succession of failed Government policies.

Amazotheamazing

Caped Crusader wrote: »

Where did this info come from? Is the same level of detail available for other areas? It would be interesting to compare this to castletroy or raheen

you'd have to email the people at moyross.ie to find out, I imagine it's info culled from the various Fitzgerald reports.

Caped Crusader

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

you'd have to email the people at moyross.ie to find out, I imagine it's info culled from the various Fitzgerald reports.

I thought that might be the case. It would interesting comparing the changes over the years in the so called poor areas and the so called affluent areas. The biggest shame seems to be that although moyross has lots of services for local people but the people who need them the most probably refuse to use them.

dave 27

i know the drop in population is due to the regeneration but will this affect the "final" population when the regeneration is complete?

ie is everyone that left going back here in a few years and is it just the limerick city area these are rehoused, because iv heard people were rehoused in parts of county clare and even galway!

Amazotheamazing

Caped Crusader wrote: »

I thought that might be the case. It would interesting comparing the changes over the years in the so called poor areas and the so called affluent areas. The biggest shame seems to be that although moyross has lots of services for local people but the people who need them the most probably refuse to use them.

I don't really know to be honest, I sometimes think the small minority in Moyross ruin it for the large majority who just want to get on with things. There are good news stories in Moyross too, guys like Keith Earls, the guy who runs Speedline etc.

We need to break the cycle of poverty though, and that will only be done by getting more and more people from Moyross into apprenticeships, LIT and UL and giving them more options in life than having a kid at 17. In one sense it's great that a majority seem to stick it out til Leaving Cert, now we need to make sure a majority go onto college or a trade of some sort, stats that should be in the above piece.

Amazotheamazing

dave 27 wrote: »

i know the drop in population is due to the regeneration but will this affect the "final" population when the regeneration is complete?

ie is everyone that left going back here in a few years and is it just the limerick city area these are rehoused, because iv heard people were rehoused in parts of county clare and even galway!

No one knows, the rehousing of the bad tenants in Moyross and Southill is one of the most contentious issues in Limerick, imo. There is a core of people who seem to bring trouble with them, but imo, it's only a small number and not representative of most people from Moyross or Southill.

iguana

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

A lot of the services are simply things that exist in places like Castletroy too, with the exception of the employment ones which until recently weren't needed in Castletroy (for example). A big problem is the services were put in 20 years after the place was built which did lead to disenfranchisement with the city.

I take it from your comments you've never actually been to Moyross? You should take a drive out to see the place, it's hard to believe such a place could exist in modern Ireland largely due to a succession of failed Government policies.

I agree with a lot of bigpink's points with regard to facilities and I lived in Moyross. The area has a huge amount of facilities compared to so many areas of the city/country. The only "succession of failed government policies" that has lead to Moyross being in the state it is, is the fact that from the very start people weren't made fully responsible for their homes and the state of them.

If a certain standard of area and house maintenance along with good social behaviour was conditional as part of the tenancy agreement the area would not have sunk like it did. The houses are nice, they have good gardens, the area is well laid out with lots of green areas and plenty of facilities. The area should be lovely. It's a certain amount of the residents who make it otherwise.

Amazotheamazing

iguana wrote: »

I agree with a lot of bigpink's points with regard to facilities and I lived in Moyross. The area has a huge amount of facilities compared to so many areas of the city/country. The only "succession of failed government policies" that has lead to Moyross being in the state it is, is the fact that from the very start people weren't made fully responsible for their homes and the state of them.

If a certain standard of area and house maintenance along with good social behaviour was conditional as part of the tenancy agreement the area would not have sunk like it did. The houses are nice, they have good gardens, the area is well laid out with lots of green areas and plenty of facilities. The area should be lovely. It's a certain amount of the residents who make it otherwise.

It has plenty of facilities now, it didn't back in the 1980's. I don't fully agree about the lay out, there should be a road connecting Moyross to the Coonagh roundabout (think it's being built?)

I agree to an extent about maintenance, but it raises the issue of what do you do with people who simply trash every house and estate they live in? If you removed them from Moyross, Moyross would be a fine place to live (now) but where do you put them? One of the strangest things you can do in Limerick is take a walk through Ballynanty, Kileely and Moyross, you see lovely houses with perfect gardens and fresh painted doors, clean windows etc beside houses that wouldn't look out of place in a ghetto. The contrast between people who made a real "go" of social housing and those who didn't is incredibly apparent.

Do you think Moyross is improving?

iguana

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

It has plenty of facilities now, it didn't back in the 1980's.

I lived there in the 80s and there was plenty in the area then too. Tony O'Gorman was running Corpus Christi and he was a phenomenal principal. The school was one of the first to have a decent programme for kids with learning disabilities. It had sports and drama programmes. The school applied to all sorts of competitions and local programmes which lots of schools in better areas never bothered with. We had an annual estate sports day, best garden competitions, a summer play scheme and a subsidised playschool. Thomond rugby club, adult dancing classes and aerobics. It was a great place. It was good in terms of layout as we had plenty of green space all over to play on.

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I agree to an extent about maintenance, but it raises the issue of what do you do with people who simply trash every house and estate they live in? If you removed them from Moyross, Moyross would be a fine place to live (now) but where do you put them? One of the strangest things you can do in Limerick is take a walk through Ballynanty, Kileely and Moyross, you see lovely houses with perfect gardens and fresh painted doors, clean windows etc beside houses that wouldn't look out of place in a ghetto. The contrast between people who made a real "go" of social housing and those who didn't is incredibly apparent.

I believe that while everyone should have the right to have the state provide housing if they need it. I also believe that right also comes with conditional responsibilities. If you do not look after your house and continually cause unreasonable annoyance to your neighbours you get evicted and then it's up to you to house yourself. (Obviously this responsibility of maintenance doesn't fully apply to the infirm.)

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Do you think Moyross is improving?

Compared to what it was in the 80s, no. I lived in Craeval, my family was one of the initial families which moved into that estate and it was a lovely place to live. It was full of young families, it was completely safe and a real community. It was actually pretty idillic. Glenagross was already a kip at that point, with rubbish everywhere and boarded up burnt out houses. The general agreement was that Craeval was a lovely place but it would probably not stay like that.

A lot of people were saving to buy a house in a private area from day one. In late 86-87 there was something of a housing market price crash (nothing like the current one but prices fell about 25% in some areas) and this became the opportunity for people to buy house they might not otherwise have been able to. A lot of families left and some of the families who replaced them were being moved because they had caused problems elsewhere. (The family who moved into "our" house were really awful). And this triggered more families to start planning a move. Some of our old neighbours told my parents they never imagined they'd move until that family moved in but they couldn't stay living alongside them.

So I know the problems with Moyross don't stem from the houses, the layout or the facilities. It's the policy of allowing troublemakers to keep moving from house to house and not face any consequences which makes these areas so bad. Eventually anyone who can leave does and you end up with unfortunate people getting stuck in an area that was once really nice.

Amazotheamazing

iguana wrote: »

I lived there in the 80s and there was plenty in the area then too. Tony O'Gorman was running Corpus Christi and he was a phenomenal principal. The school was one of the first to have a decent programme for kids with learning disabilities. It had sports and drama programmes. The school applied to all sorts of competitions and local programmes which lots of schools in better areas never bothered with. We had an annual estate sports day, best garden competitions, a summer play scheme and a subsidised playschool. Thomond rugby club, adult dancing classes and aerobics. It was a great place. It was good in terms of layout as we had plenty of green space all over to play on.



I believe that while everyone should have the right to have the state provide housing if they need it. I also believe that right also comes with conditional responsibilities. If you do not look after your house and continually cause unreasonable annoyance to your neighbours you get evicted and then it's up to you to house yourself. (Obviously this responsibility of maintenance doesn't fully apply to the infirm.)


Compared to what it was in the 80s, no. I lived in Craeval, my family was one of the initial families which moved into that estate and it was a lovely place to live. It was full of young families, it was completely safe and a real community. It was actually pretty idillic. Glenagross was already a kip at that point, with rubbish everywhere and boarded up burnt out houses. The general agreement was that Craeval was a lovely place but it would probably not stay like that.

A lot of people were saving to buy a house in a private area from day one. In late 86-87 there was something of a housing market price crash (nothing like the current one but prices fell about 25% in some areas) and this became the opportunity for people to buy house they might not otherwise have been able to. A lot of families left and some of the families who replaced them were being moved because they had caused problems elsewhere. (The family who moved into "our" house were really awful). And this triggered more families to start planning a move. Some of our old neighbours told my parents they never imagined they'd move until that family moved in but they couldn't stay living alongside them.

So I know the problems with Moyross don't stem from the houses, the layout or the facilities. It's the policy of allowing troublemakers to keep moving from house to house and not face any consequences which makes these areas so bad. Eventually anyone who can leave does and you end up with unfortunate people getting stuck in an area that was once really nice.

Interesting stuff Iguana, here's an article that touches on the failure of relocation schemes in America, it might be of interest to people who wonder what could happen if the trouble is spread about.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2008/07/american-murder-mystery/6872/

munstergirl

A friend of mine lived in moyross in the 80's and there was nothing wrong with the place, lovely houses too.

I know people in woodview who were worried about their houses, when moyross was being built, who can blame them if they are paying a mortage every month.

I know lots of single mothers who have their own house, good careers and normal kids. They worked hard for it.

Giving trouble makers dole, house, benefits does nothing for limerick, i'm on dole myself + don't want to be, i'd much prefer to work like thousands of other people.

Look at caherdavin thousands of houses, not many facilities, very few troublemakers.

So the people of southill + moyross are getting new houses, will it really change anything.

padma

The whole of the bottom of glenagross was burnt out during the 80,s and kelly's field was full of glue sniffers up until L.I.T took it over in the late 90's

bigpink

padma wrote: »

Include the wall along woodview towarda bottom of caherdavin. So why isn'there a fence at the entrance for security. No other area in Limerick has this situation of an area not being connected to another even though they are neighbours. It is the economic divide nothing else.

Well you wouldnt fence off an entrance because people would have to use that to enter,plus if the college is fenced you only have to keep an eye on the entrance
Could you show the fence on google earth?

bigpink

Padma,are you from the area?

padma

On the note of no fence at the entrance, its a BIG entrance with the road that leads in to the car park at the back, if the L.I.T was concerned about security wouldn't they have fenced the front as well instead of leaving it open. Granted it wouldn't look good for the image and thats what it is about the image, so to keep the image of L.I.T at its best they built the fence around the back of it because that would lead in to Moyross and Ballynanty.

I'm from the neighbourhood, Its like this the way in to Moyross is through watch house cross which we remember the city dump used to be there, there was many a chance lost over the years to open Moyross to the rest of the city, A road could have been built going across kellys field linking from Ballynanty to the link road/mayorstone Garda station. The entrance in to Nessans school from Moyross closes at 7 o clock or thereabouts effectively cutting out the time you can spend visiting friends in Caherdavin and woodview. And thats a barbed wire fence, dont see a barbed wire fence on at the entrance to Nessans from Woodview.Also a road could have been built at the bottom of Moyross going in to Caherdavin by Barrets shop. If you have no car it is a long walk to the Jetland which could have been eased by a through road. There is a wall that runs along the side of Moyross from The back of Nessans to the walkway at the bottom of Moyross to barrats shop/caherdavin area.

I agree with one of the posters here who say a through road to coonagh roundabout should be opened up. Either way Bigpink Its My opinion, but it would have been nice if the young people of Moyross and Caherdavin didn't have such a divide in place. Many friendships cropped up over the years its a small neighbourhood Caherdavin and Moyross and IMO shouldn't be so separated. Though when young people are closed in they form gangs and so on. I'm sure anyone here growing up in Moyross when visiting friends in Caherdavin and Woodview and got stopped by the Gaurds were told to go back to Moyross. I've seen this discrimination all my life when I was a teenager.

bigpink

I dont know about the fence so thats why im asking.Maybe a campaign to get the fences down should be started?

padma

bigpink wrote: »

I dont know about the fence so thats why im asking.Maybe a campaign to get the fences down should be started?

When I say a fence I don't mean a fence like the peace walls in Belfast, what is meant is an amalgamation of barriers some being the back gardens of people's houses and others being an actual 20 foot wall (which I suppose is similar to the peace walls in Belfast) For these walls to be brought down would be a massive thing and you would have to get through various different community neighbourhood groups who sorry to say would probably be in uproar over it. It is part of the infrastructure of both these neighbourhoods at this stage.

There was a documentary about these neighbourhoods I can remember done on the mid 90's it covered Tallaght, Moyross Southill and I think knocknaheeny or somewhere like that in Cork and a placve in Galway. They were set up to house the poor who were being moved out of the inner city (slums)? No infrastructure, no jobs, no shopping centre etc. How many shops are in Moyross nowadays? Apart from the spar way down by watch house cross.

bigpink

padma wrote: »

When I say a fence I don't mean a fence like the peace walls in Belfast, what is meant is an amalgamation of barriers some being the back gardens of people's houses and others being an actual 20 foot wall (which I suppose is similar to the peace walls in Belfast) For these walls to be brought down would be a massive thing and you would have to get through various different community neighbourhood groups who sorry to say would probably be in uproar over it. It is part of the infrastructure of both these neighbourhoods at this stage.

There was a documentary about these neighbourhoods I can remember done on the mid 90's it covered Tallaght, Moyross Southill and I think knocknaheeny or somewhere like that in Cork and a placve in Galway. They were set up to house the poor who were being moved out of the inner city (slums)? No infrastructure, no jobs, no shopping centre etc. How many shops are in Moyross nowadays? Apart from the spar way down by watch house cross.

Well back walls of gardens id get over but 20 foot walls,where abouts are these?
Was there local shops in Moyross?

iguana

bigpink wrote: »

Was there local shops in Moyross?

Yes. There was one in either Pineview or Woodview. They sold lots of Homestead products.:D

banie01

iguana wrote: »

Yes. There was one in either Pineview or Woodview. They sold lots of Homestead products.:D

There were shops in Glenacross(From a house), Cosgrave Park, College Avenue and in Pineview Gardens.......All eventually turned into little fortresses due to antisocial behaviour before all finally closed!

Delphi91

padma wrote: »

...The entrance in to Nessans school from Moyross closes at 7 o clock or thereabouts effectively cutting out the time you can spend visiting friends in Caherdavin and woodview. And thats a barbed wire fence, dont see a barbed wire fence on at the entrance to Nessans from Woodview...

The fence at the back of St. Nessan's is precisely that, a fence. There is no barbed wire on it. It is a green palisade fence, approximately 7-8 feet high. If there is any barbed wire, then it is on the high back walls of the houses on Cliona Park, and was put there by the owners of those houses.

As for the entrance from Woodview, there is a big front gate, with side panels which are of similar size to the palisade fencing at the back of the school. The wall running down along the side of St. Nessan's was put there by LIT when they re-developed Kelly's Field into the pitches which are there now.

Vanolder

iguana wrote: »

I lived there in the 80s and there was plenty in the area then too. Tony O'Gorman was running Corpus Christi and he was a phenomenal principal. The school was one of the first to have a decent programme for kids with learning disabilities. It had sports and drama programmes. The school applied to all sorts of competitions and local programmes which lots of schools in better areas never bothered with. We had an annual estate sports day, best garden competitions, a summer play scheme and a subsidised playschool. Thomond rugby club, adult dancing classes and aerobics. It was a great place. It was good in terms of layout as we had plenty of green space all over to play on.



I believe that while everyone should have the right to have the state provide housing if they need it. I also believe that right also comes with conditional responsibilities. If you do not look after your house and continually cause unreasonable annoyance to your neighbours you get evicted and then it's up to you to house yourself. (Obviously this responsibility of maintenance doesn't fully apply to the infirm.)


Compared to what it was in the 80s, no. I lived in Craeval, my family was one of the initial families which moved into that estate and it was a lovely place to live. It was full of young families, it was completely safe and a real community. It was actually pretty idillic. Glenagross was already a kip at that point, with rubbish everywhere and boarded up burnt out houses. The general agreement was that Craeval was a lovely place but it would probably not stay like that.

A lot of people were saving to buy a house in a private area from day one. In late 86-87 there was something of a housing market price crash (nothing like the current one but prices fell about 25% in some areas) and this became the opportunity for people to buy house they might not otherwise have been able to. A lot of families left and some of the families who replaced them were being moved because they had caused problems elsewhere. (The family who moved into "our" house were really awful). And this triggered more families to start planning a move. Some of our old neighbours told my parents they never imagined they'd move until that family moved in but they couldn't stay living alongside them.

So I know the problems with Moyross don't stem from the houses, the layout or the facilities. It's the policy of allowing troublemakers to keep moving from house to house and not face any consequences which makes these areas so bad. Eventually anyone who can leave does and you end up with unfortunate people getting stuck in an area that was once really nice.

Great post. I lived up the road in Delmage until around 92 and I express the same sentiments as your self about Moyross as a whole. It was a great place to grow up back in those days and a totally safe enviroment. The work Tony O'Gorman did for Moyross was immense.... Met him recently enough too, a lovely man!

um7y1h83ge06nx

In recent weeks I've been getting more and more knowledgable about Moyross as I've started seeing a girl from there.

Meeting her has really helped me realise that there are some fantastic people living there and that they don't all fit the stereotype that is burned into our minds. In fact my friends wouldn't believe she's from Moyross until she told them herself. They couldn't believe she could be from Moyross and doing a very difficult college course where you need a substantial amount of points in the LC to do.

However it does smack of positive discrimination somewhat to see all the facilities being provided to the youth of the area and some of them couldn't give a sh*t, which "ordinary" areas have so little. It good for the people that appreciate the facilities and try to help develop their communities, but a sickener to see some people just abusing and vandalising their facilities.

My GF has done well out of where she's living as she has gotten grants for Uni as it's a disadvantaged area. In all her CVs though she uses her grandfather's address so people don't just toss it in the bin when they see the address.

She had a story about a Garda that lives there and works up the country. He was coming back to Limerick one day and got stopped at a Garda checkpoint. He didn't identify himself as a Garda and was asked for his licence. As soon as they saw Moyross on the licence he was asked to get out of the car and they gave him the full works looking for anything out of place. It wasn't until the end he showed his Garda ID and they were gobsmacked!

Amazotheamazing

Calvin Vast Scarf wrote: »

In recent weeks I've been getting more and more knowledgable about Moyross as I've started seeing a girl from there.

Meeting her has really helped me realise that there are some fantastic people living there and that they don't all fit the stereotype that is burned into our minds. In fact my friends wouldn't believe she's from Moyross until she told them herself. They couldn't believe she could be from Moyross and doing a very difficult college course where you need a substantial amount of points in the LC to do.

However it does smack of positive discrimination somewhat to see all the facilities being provided to the youth of the area and some of them couldn't give a sh*t, which "ordinary" areas have so little. It good for the people that appreciate the facilities and try to help develop their communities, but a sickener to see some people just abusing and vandalising their facilities.

My GF has done well out of where she's living as she has gotten grants for Uni as it's a disadvantaged area. In all her CVs though she uses her grandfather's address so people don't just toss it in the bin when they see the address.

She had a story about a Garda that lives there and works up the country. He was coming back to Limerick one day and got stopped at a Garda checkpoint. He didn't identify himself as a Garda and was asked for his licence. As soon as they saw Moyross on the licence he was asked to get out of the car and they gave him the full works looking for anything out of place. It wasn't until the end he showed his Garda ID and they were gobsmacked!

I don't think positive discrimination in this instance is a bad thing, we need to to make sure people can get into university of they want to go (and have the ability to go), most people in Moyross could not afford to send kids to college, so the State is right to help them, same with the grants system for people who's parents earn below a certain threshold.

It's amazing how little people from outside Moyross know about Moyross though (myself included), we need to break that stereotype.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I don't think positive discrimination in this instance is a bad thing, we need to to make sure people can get into university of they want to go (and have the ability to go), most people in Moyross could not afford to send kids to college, so the State is right to help them, same with the grants system for people who's parents earn below a certain threshold.

It's amazing how little people from outside Moyross know about Moyross though (myself included), we need to break that stereotype.

True I guess. My ex is a teacher and one of my Aunts is on the Board of Management of a school, both in official disadvantaged areas. They were happy when facilities and support were used correctly but majorly p*ssed off when they saw money being wasted on people that had no interest at all. But I guess if it works for some (like my GF) then it's worthwhile.

I've been in Limerick 9 years now since I started college, and the only things I know about Moyross comes from the media.

Amazotheamazing

Calvin Vast Scarf wrote: »

True I guess. My ex is a teacher and one of my Aunts is on the Board of Management of a school, both in official disadvantaged areas. They were happy when facilities and support were used correctly but majorly p*ssed off when they saw money being wasted on people that had no interest at all. But I guess if it works for some (like my GF) then it's worthwhile.

I've been in Limerick 9 years now since I started college, and the only things I know about Moyross comes from the media.

true, none of us here want anyone to the abuse the system, and we all get annoyed when we see it being abused, but that doesn't mean the system itself is wrong, it just means we need to find a way to stop the abuse while allowing people benefit who need to benefit from it.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

true, no of us here want anyone to the abuse the system, and we all get annoyed when we see it being abused, but that doesn't mean the system itself is wrong, it just means we need to find a way to stop the abuse while allowing people benefit who need to benefit from it.

Yeah I completely agree with you.

The thing that p*sses me off most from my 9 years in Limerick is meeting so many decent locals and knowing that them and the city's image as a whole is being dragged in the gutter by those involved in serious crime. People outside of Limerick have stereotypes in their minds about Limerick and Limerick people. And in Limerick, people have strong stereotypes in their mind about people from certain parts of the city (e.g. Moyross).

I can't see any of this changing unfortunately without continous hard crackdowns on criminal gangs. As an aside, my mother was in Limerick a few weeks ago and on the way back home from town I drove past a house belonging to an infamous family pointing out their vehicles. She couldn't believe they could be some blatant with the fancy wheels and still (according to the media) draw benefits. It must be hard for kids growing up near them, seeing all their trappings, and not decide to go into the drugs trade/crime and instead do the hard graft in school etc.

Amazotheamazing

Calvin Vast Scarf wrote: »

Yeah I completely agree with you.

The thing that p*sses me off most from my 9 years in Limerick is meeting so many decent locals and knowing that them and the city's image as a whole is being dragged in the gutter by those involved in serious crime. People outside of Limerick have stereotypes in their minds about Limerick and Limerick people. And in Limerick, people have strong stereotypes in their mind about people from certain parts of the city (e.g. Moyross).

I can't see any of this changing unfortunately without continous hard crackdowns on criminal gangs. As an aside, my mother was in Limerick a few weeks ago and on the way back home from town I drove past a house belonging to an infamous family pointing out their vehicles. She couldn't believe they could be some blatant with the fancy wheels and still (according to the media) draw benefits. It must be hard for kids growing up near them, seeing all their trappings, and not decide to go into the drugs trade/crime and instead do the hard graft in school etc.

What gangs are actually in Moyross? I was under the impression it had quietened down considerably since the kids were attacked?

I think the island field and Southill face far greater challenges whereas I'm reasonably positive the Kileely, Ballynanty and Moyross will slowly improve, that might be very wishful thinking on my part.

um7y1h83ge06nx

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

What gangs are actually in Moyross? I was under the impression it had quietened down considerably since the kids were attacked?

I think the island field and Southill face far greater challenges whereas I'm reasonably positive the Kileely, Ballynanty and Moyross will slowly improve, that might be very wishful thinking on my part.

I was tallking more about Limerick in general. The house in question in wasn't in Moyross but Hyde Road.

Hopefully things will improve, be good to see.

Amazotheamazing

Calvin Vast Scarf wrote: »

I was tallking more about Limerick in general. The house in question in wasn't in Moyross but Hyde Road.

Hopefully things will improve, be good to see.

I know where you meant (yes, I've been following you home...) but I think it's important to separate the areas.

The Island Field and Southill are ****ed, basically, imo. Moyross may not be.

bigpink

Calvin Vast Scarf wrote: »

In recent weeks I've been getting more and more knowledgable about Moyross as I've started seeing a girl from there.

Meeting her has really helped me realise that there are some fantastic people living there and that they don't all fit the stereotype that is burned into our minds. In fact my friends wouldn't believe she's from Moyross until she told them herself. They couldn't believe she could be from Moyross and doing a very difficult college course where you need a substantial amount of points in the LC to do.

However it does smack of positive discrimination somewhat to see all the facilities being provided to the youth of the area and some of them couldn't give a sh*t, which "ordinary" areas have so little. It good for the people that appreciate the facilities and try to help develop their communities, but a sickener to see some people just abusing and vandalising their facilities.

My GF has done well out of where she's living as she has gotten grants for Uni as it's a disadvantaged area. In all her CVs though she uses her grandfather's address so people don't just toss it in the bin when they see the address.

She had a story about a Garda that lives there and works up the country. He was coming back to Limerick one day and got stopped at a Garda checkpoint. He didn't identify himself as a Garda and was asked for his licence. As soon as they saw Moyross on the licence he was asked to get out of the car and they gave him the full works looking for anything out of place. It wasn't until the end he showed his Garda ID and they were gobsmacked!

I dont know Moyross well but ive worked with people and have known people from there and do you know what?noboby cared:)Well if your g/f has a solid C.V behind her she shouldnt be ashamed of an address.Its how people carry themselves,i bet you could spot good and bad in any place on the whole
Did she need the extra grants?

Its an awful thing to say but alot of people think theres double standard to certain areas in Limerick

You can see social problems starting to creep in Dooradoyle,Raheen,Corbally,Castletroy etc

um7y1h83ge06nx

bigpink wrote: »

I dont know Moyross well but ive worked with people and have known people from there and do you know what?noboby cared:)Well if your g/f has a solid C.V behind her she shouldnt be ashamed of an address.Its how people carry themselves,i bet you could spot good and bad in any place on the whole
Did she need the extra grants?

Its an awful thing to say but alot of people think theres double standard to certain areas in Limerick

You can see social problems starting to creep in Dooradoyle,Raheen,Corbally,Castletroy etc

I agree, I don't care where someone is from, if they're sound, they're sound, but not everyone sees things that way. I can understand people using different addresses on their CVs. If you're going for a job you really want you don't want you chances ruined by having someone in a HR department take a negative view of you due to your address.

Yeah she needed the grants, so it was good that they were available and that she has put the money to good use.

There are double standards everywhere. My Aunt lives just down the road from me here in Limerick. She gets funny reactions sometimes just because she's from Limerick and she shares her surname with a well known criminal family. Doesn't bother though, she just thinks it's funny.

As for social problems, you have that everywhere. I grew up in a real rural area but I have no shortage of crazy stories that would rival any Irish town or city, a Garda station set on fire, a Garda being beaten with the leg of a table, drug dealer kidnapped at an "unofficial" checkpoint and taken to a pre-dug grave in a forest and threatened with execution etc. etc.

zing zong

Just to put things into perspective

I was raised in moyross, in pineview, we were one of the 1st to move in, a lot of the houses were still being built when we got there

I went to Corpus Christi, which was a great school

the houses were great, the whole area was great and it was a great place to grow up.....

*AT THE TIME*

we moved out around '97, due in large part to the amount of A holes that were moving in, most of the "oldschool" community that could move out, did move


and heres where the problem lies, the A Holes that moved in already had a history of antisocial behaviour, and some had serious offences under their belts, even for the time, YET were afforded the ability to move in and wreck the community that existed there already

none were vetted, NO consideration was given to the fact that they may be bad for the area, so when the oldschool community left, the houses were quickly filled by scumbags (not all of them but most of them)

a lot of the good folks that couldnt leave had already bought their houses and so couldnt sell them due to fact that moyross had become a dirty word by then and couldnt sell

and this was WELL before any of the gang bullsh*t started.

so the place had been taken over by A holes, and therefore ignored by the council and govt and police, and the downward spiral began

now as I've said, I was raised in moyross, I have an honours degree in politics from UL, my brother owns his own thriving business (even during the recession) a lot of my oldschool friends (as i call them) from moyross went to college, or had great jobs (though some are now unemployed due to the recession)

the point is the council is to blame for putting ZERO THOUGHT in the allocation of houses, which leaves us in the situation we have now which is going to cost millions to rectify, and if/when the regeneration is complete, chances are they will let the same motherf*ckers back that wrecked it to begin with