Bathroom tiling project

kkelly77

I made the unfortunate move of stripping the lining paper that the previous owners of my house out up in the bathroom. I was planning to paint the walls however, after removing the paper the walls are in a bad way for painting. I'm now thinking of biting the bullet the tiling the whole bathroom.

Couple of questions though:
1) When tiling/sealing around the bath should I fill the bath with water prior to compensate for movement in the bath when someone is using it?
2)I will probably tile the floor too which is going to mean the bottom of the door will need to be trimmed to allow for the extra height of the tile. Do I need to lay MDF on the floor before tiling?

Thanks for you help and any other advice you think I might need, please feel free to pass your wisdom on

K

AckwelFoley

kkelly77 wrote: »

Couple of questions though:
1) When tiling/sealing around the bath should I fill the bath with water prior to compensate for movement in the bath when someone is using it?


K

Smart thinking, but no, theres no need -use a good "tile over"
bath trim and seal in with a sanitary grade silicone sealant

kkelly77 wrote: »

2)I will probably rile the floor too which is going to mean the bottom of the door will need to be trimmed to allow for the extra height of the tile. Do I need to lay MDF on the floor before tiling?

K

That depends, what is on the floor at the moment? Is it OSB board? Or floor boards? Dont use MDF either way, you need to use WBP plywood, min 12mm, you will hear people with differing opinions on the thickness required, but in my opinion - and ive been around the block a while - 12mm is fine. Lighter will do if the boards underneath are in good condition and are level

kkelly77

snyper wrote: »

That depends, what is on the floor at the moment? Is it OSB board? Or floor boards? Dont use MDF either way, you need to use WBP plywood, min 12mm, you will hear people with differing opinions on the thickness required, but in my opinion - and ive been around the block a while - 12mm is fine. Lighter will do if the boards underneath are in good condition and are level

There's currently floorboards under the flooring. With 12mm plywood and the thickness of the tile, the door would definitely need to be cut for enough clearance. Also, cutting around the toilet and sink pedestal will be tricky.

Joey the lips

Couple of questions though:
1) When tiling/sealing around the bath should I fill the bath with water prior to compensate for movement in the bath when someone is using it?

This is an old trick tilers use however if the bath is framed in correctly it will not be necessary. The problem is i doubt the correct frame is used. It will all depend on the finish you want. Most people like the finish where the tile meets the bath without the seal. For this to happen you need to frame the bath. Dont worry yo wont need to take the bath out. Just get as much of a frame as possible on the back wall under both ends of the bath. frame the sides and frame the front..

If this seems like hard work then just use the bathseal....Always check your seals regular to make sure there is no leaks. Especially if your using a shower.

2)I will probably rile the floor too which is going to mean the bottom of the door will need to be trimmed to allow for the extra height of the tile. Do I need to lay MDF on the floor before tiling?

Its not actually mdf you lay its marine ply. 2 reasons. The surface is waterproof and its easier to prime. You also screw the ply down every 2-3" which is a lot of screws but worth it. What you also need to determine is the length of screws....Sounds mad... well if your current floor is 10mm think and you use 12mm marine ply you cannot screw down with anything more than 20mm brass screws... why because you risk hitting pipes.

even though its marine ply it will still have to be primed.

Make sure you use a flex adhesive. white is dearer than grey but its a safer bet.

Thanks for you help and any other advice you think I might need, please feel free to pass your wisdom on

K[/QUOTE]

AckwelFoley

kkelly77 wrote: »

Also, cutting around the toilet and sink pedestal will be tricky.

Simple solution to that one is to take out the sink ped and the toilet bowl. I always do, its much neater and quicker in my opinion in the lonh run.

kkelly77

snyper wrote: »

Simple solution to that one is to take out the sink ped and the toilet bowl. I always do, its much neater and quicker in my opinion in the lonh run.

That'll mean having to move the toilet bowl and cistern? As well as the hand basin?

All of a sudden what I thought would be a small easy paint job has quickly snowballed into something a lot bigger :eek:

Joey the lips

kkelly77 wrote: »

That'll mean having to move the toilet bowl and cistern? As well as the hand basin?

All of a sudden what I thought would be a small easy paint job has quickly snowballed into something a lot bigger :eek:

If it were an easy job there would be no plumbers or tilers..:)

kkelly77

Thanks to all for their advice so far. I will be going tile shopping tomorrow. However, I have some questions about the project you might be able to help me with and I've included some photos that might help.

1) There are as few black spots on the wall (photo 1). Should I treat these with fungicide first and can you recommend a particular brand?
2) I have to treat the walls/floor with PVA. Again looking for a brand recommendation and how is PVA applied? Brushed on?
3) I am not 100% sure if I am going to tile the floor as it will require the door to be trimmed to allow for the 12mm marine ply and height of the new tile. Also, if you see photo 2 you will see there is no saddle board and the height of the new tiled floor might be too high and act as a trip hazard. Options?
4) In photo 3 you can see there is an outlet pipe of where I assume the hand basin was originally located. Should I just tile up this as the outlet pipe is flush with the wall?
5) Where the wall/floor tiles meet or where tiles meet at an internal corner, should you tile right up to one another and silicon seal or leave a gap to grout in between?
6) Can you recommend a decent bath seal? I was advised something like Teleseal.
7) Obviously I need to remove the electric shower. I assume this is handy enough after isolating the water/power? And what is the process when tiling this area? Remove old tiles and shower, tile with new tiles and grout, then when adhesive and grout are set refit shower?

Sorry for how long winded this is. I don't like leaving anything to chance. Thanks.

K.

ctrl-alt-delete

1.
As regards point one i would remove the black mold first with any disinfectant cleaning solution. The spores are supposed to give out toxins which over a sustained period can lead to ill health (respiratory system, colds and the likes). It live on the wall because it is a porous building material which is a food source for it. The main cause of this problem is condensation, which in a bathroom is easy to understand. Maybe you can consider installing a vent to the outside if there is not one in the bathroom already, or simply leave the bathroom window open more often. It should not re-appear on the tiles but can do on the grout. Some manufacturers produce anti-fungal grout - but i have never used, so i can't really advise on that.

2.

For me PVA is PVA, i don't really look for a brand, maybe someone else might recommend one. It can be expensive enough, but either ways it will advise you on the tub of how much water to add to it for what you intend to use it for.

3.

If it was me i would tile the floor, but it is up to yourself. I agree that from the picture the floors look nearly flush and so it could cause a problem. You could install a saddle yourself, but this would involve trimming the door and the carpet on the landing area. Other than that there are metal trims available from going from carpet to tile, and for floors that have a height difference. I'm not sure what the maximum difference in floor height is for them to be honest, when looking for tiles enquire about this, or someone else on here might be able to advise you.

4.

As regards the outlet pipe i would investigate it's possible removal. If you cannot remove it i would just ensure it is watertight, the last thing you want is it leaking when you have it tiled away.

Just while i am in that area, as it is close to the floor and you are suggesting tiling it in I'm assuming you are not skirting that wall. If you have not already decided to, i would remove all the skirting in the room. In my opinion a bathroom looks better with a bit of the floor tile returned up the wall to look like skirting. If you are not tiling the floor I'm not so sure it would look as good - it is up to yourself anyways.

5.

As regards point 5, i always leave a gap, the same width of whatever spacer i am using. Then when this is filled with grout it is waterproof. It looks better than silicon and is easier in my opinion.

6.

I have never seen Teleseal so i cannot comment on how good it is. From looking at the website it looks decent to me, but if the bath is well propped on all edges i think a standard bath seal will do fine. Just make sure to use plenty of silicon when installing it for piece of mind.


7.

If you feel you are competent with electrics and there is a way to isolate the feed to the shower then this is handy enough. I would knock the power completely - obviously in daylight . Remove the front face of the shower where you will then be able to disconnect the wiring. Once you have then removed whatever plumbing fitting is connected to the shower you can then close the shower back up and store it safely. It might be an idea to take some pictures when you have removed the front face of the shower for reference when you go to re-install it, especially if you haven't done it before. Ensure that you cover the water pipe to stop any dirt getting into it, both on the shower and in the wall. Also ensure you insulate the visible wires with insulating tape wrapping it around the live neutral and earth separately.

Joey the lips

1) There are as few black spots on the wall (photo 1). Should I treat these with fungicide first and can you recommend a particular brand?

You wont need to treat it if the plaster board is sound it will accept the tile. Tap on it if it feels weaker than the rest replace it..


2) I have to treat the walls/floor with PVA. Again looking for a brand recommendation and how is PVA applied? Brushed on?

You dont treat the floor generally with PVA as it gets very sticky... Best to use tile primer on the whole lot. Its cheap as welll. Brush or rollar on.


3) I am not 100% sure if I am going to tile the floor as it will require the door to be trimmed to allow for the 12mm marine ply and height of the new tile. Also, if you see photo 2 you will see there is no saddle board and the height of the new tiled floor might be too high and act as a trip hazard. Options?

It wont act as a trip. You can buya bar that acts like a ramp for all intensive purposes. Trim the door if necessary. Guarantee if you dont do it now you will regret it.

4) In photo 3 you can see there is an outlet pipe of where I assume the hand basin was originally located. Should I just tile up this as the outlet pipe is flush with the wall?

If the pipe is not being used...Tile over it...

5) Where the wall/floor tiles meet or where tiles meet at an internal corner, should you tile right up to one another and silicon seal or leave a gap to grout in between?

Tile right up and leave a tin line to be filled with silicone. Grout will never hold no matter how flexi it is. Check the line regularly to make sure the seal is holding.

6) Can you recommend a decent bath seal? I was advised something like Teleseal.

Try not use one. Tile down to the bath and seal around it. This is only possible if the bath was fitted correctly. Do not take your starting point off the bath incase it was installed incorrectly. If your insistant in using a bath seal... Mehh any one in my opinion.

7) Obviously I need to remove the electric shower. I assume this is handy enough after isolating the water/power? And what is the process when tiling this area? Remove old tiles and shower, tile with new tiles and grout, then when adhesive and grout are set refit shower?

Yip if you are confident all is fine..

kkelly77

Thanks CtrilAltDel and JTL for your advice. A few differing opinions though on need for PVA and technique for tiling into corners. I assume both work equally as well? Should I go for the tile primer instead?

Looks like we're going to tile the floor anyway so this will require putting down marine ply, trimming the door and moving both toilet and hand basin higher. Would I need a plumber to move the toilet and basin as surely adjustment to the pipework would be necessary? I would also like to get those flexi hoses for the taps installed for ease of shutting off the water if needs be.

We were considering tiling the sections where the waste water pipe has been boxed in. Does this need to be boxed in again using marine ply to tile over it?

Thanks again lads for the help. Much appreciated.

K.
Piss Poor Planning Prevents Proper Performance

ctrl-alt-delete

kkelly77 wrote: »

Thanks CtrilAltDel and JTL for your advice. A few differing opinions though on need for PVA and technique for tiling into corners. I assume both work equally as well? Should I go for the tile primer instead?

Looks like we're going to tile the floor anyway so this will require putting down marine ply, trimming the door and moving both toilet and hand basin higher. Would I need a plumber to move the toilet and basin as surely adjustment to the pipework would be necessary? I would also like to get those flexi hoses for the taps installed for ease of shutting off the water if needs be.

We were considering tiling the sections where the waste water pipe has been boxed in. Does this need to be boxed in again using marine ply to tile over it?

Thanks again lads for the help. Much appreciated.

K.
Piss Poor Planning Prevents Proper Performance

Both work equally as well if you ask me, i've never had problems with grout giving way, and sure if it does you can resort to the silicon method JTL suggested.

I'd suggest having a go at the plumbing yourself. You'd be lucky to get the exisiting piping to raise up, but sometimes it does give a bit. I'd cut a few inches from the bottom and re-plumb yourself using qualpex type fittings and the ones you suggest for the taps. This way you can add an isolator to the hot and cold and the toilet feed for ease of use in the future and while doing the job.

As for the PVA, use whatever you want they will do the job.

As for the box section, if it is thin enough then it would be no harm adding on another layer over what is there. Especially if you have some left over from the floor. If you need some more i wouldn't fork out on marine ply for it as that is very expensive, just go for run of the mill stuff.

Enjoy doing it.

kkelly77

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

I'd suggest having a go at the plumbing yourself. You'd be lucky to get the exisiting piping to raise up, but sometimes it does give a bit. I'd cut a few inches from the bottom and re-plumb yourself using qualpex type fittings and the ones you suggest for the taps. This way you can add an isolator to the hot and cold and the toilet feed for ease of use in the future and while doing the job.

The basin and bath have copper pipes. If I cut these back what qualpex fittings are suitable to connect copper pipes to qualpex hoses? Isn't there a flexible hose on the waste stack for the toilet? This should mean I only need to adjust the water infeed to the cistern?

ctrl-alt-delete

kkelly77 wrote: »

The basin and bath have copper pipes. If I cut these back what qualpex fittings are suitable to connect copper pipes to qualpex hoses? Isn't there a flexible hose on the waste stack for the toilet? This should mean I only need to adjust the water infeed to the cistern?

Yeah you should be ok with the waste on the toilet. There are push on fittings for the copper, or if you don't trust them there are copper fittings to plastic,

like this one

They will have what you need in any good plumbing shop, or b&q like the link above. I think there are slight differences in Irish and English sizes so just bear that in mind.

kkelly77

Unfortunately had to buy 2 sheets of WBP plywood as 1 sheet would leave me the tiniest bit short :rolleyes: Could have used that extra cash for a new rad.

Starting project this Friday with a bit of luck.

CJhaughey

kkelly77 wrote: »

Starting project this Friday with a bit of luck.

Good luck with it, I have done the same in my upstairs B/room. Took me about 6 mths to get to the position I am in now.
Between tanking,tiling,plumbing.....
Here is a tip, buy a good countersinking bit, and pilot drill and countersink all the holes for the stainless screws. If you don't the heads come off when the screw tightens down.

kkelly77

CJhaughey wrote: »

Good luck with it, I have done the same in my upstairs B/room. Took me about 6 mths to get to the position I am in now.
Between tanking,tiling,plumbing.....
Here is a tip, buy a good countersinking bit, and pilot drill and countersink all the holes for the stainless screws. If you don't the heads come off when the screw tightens down.

Thanks CJ. Which screws are you referring to though?

I don't have a free standing shower, just the bath and electric shower. Is tanking recommended for that area or will the tile primer, tiling and bath seal be enough?

I've attached a photo of a few tiles I removed above and hand basin. I found the top paper layer of the plasterboard came off too in some places? Is this OK with regards to tiling that area again?

K.

CJhaughey

I was talking about the screws for the WBP ply on the floor. You don't have to countersink them but it makes applying the tile adhesive easier.
I would think about getting some sealant for the slab after it dries out a bit. Also Classiseal is good stuff around a bath.
Personally I would get some tanking either paint on, or a membrane like Kerdi, or both.
Especially if the walls aren't green slab.
It's a peace of mind issue.
It is a pain in the ass doing all the different layers but its peace of mind.

gsxr1

I would go with Joey the lips on everything. He knows his stuff.;)

Except he forgot to mention ye might need a chippy as well as a plumber and a tiller :pac::pac::pac::)

Joey the lips

gsxr1 wrote: »

I would go with Joey the lips on everything. He knows his stuff.;)

Except he forgot to mention ye might need a chippy as well as a plumber and a tiller :pac::pac::pac::)

Thank you for the compliment. but now i gracious enough to except I only nearly know everything.

However...every year the information is slowly fogging up like the windows of a car.