Limerick Pogroms

panda100

I've heared that there is a plaque somewhere in Limerick that marks the spot where a young Jew was attacked during the Limerick pogroms in 1904.

I can't seem to locate it anywhere, does anyone know where it is?

Thanks, panda

Limerick_Lass

Did you try around the Wolfe Tone St area Panda? As far as I know that was where the jewish community settled in Limerick.

There was a plaque erected by the civic trust but that was out in the jewish cemetry in Castletroy.

panda100

Limerick_Lass wrote: »

Did you try around the Wolfe Tone St area Panda? As far as I know that was where the jewish community settled in Limerick.

There was a plaque erected by the civic trust but that was out in the jewish cemetry in Castletroy.

Yes maybe thats the one Im looking for. I didn't know there was a Jewish cemetry out there, Il go take a peep so.

Thanks Limerick lass

dave 27

first thing that came into my head was this, im sure this is what your looking for?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castletroy

panda100

dave 27 wrote: »

first thing that came into my head was this, im sure this is what your looking for?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castletroy

Yes,thats it.
Sorry to be really annoying with questions but where exactly is the Jewish graveyard located?
This is an intresting part of Limerick history that I only recently discovered!

Limerick_Lass

Its straight across from the Hurlers pub, in behind the AIB. Think you can go in through the housing estate across from the shopping centre.

phog

panda100 wrote: »

Yes,thats it.
Sorry to be really annoying with questions but where exactly is the Jewish graveyard located?
This is an intresting part of Limerick history that I only recently discovered!

Across the road from the Hurlers, there's a laneway on your right, head in the lanway and the graveyard is in at the end of it, no more than 100 meters, there's an eircom building in ther too and a shortcut to some of the houses behind the graveyard.

topper75

I'm told the number of jews in the city actually increased in the time after that incident in 1904. I wonder how many remain now.

I don't think we ever had a synagogue in the town, did we?

Amazotheamazing

topper75 wrote: »

I'm told the number of jews in the city actually increased in the time after that incident in 1904. I wonder how many remain now.

I don't think we ever had a synagogue in the town, did we?

There's an article in one of the Old Limerick Journals about it, you're correct, the census after the incident shows an increase in Limerick's Jewish population, must go down in history as one of the least successful pogroms.

OwenM

topper75 wrote: »

I'm told the number of jews in the city actually increased in the time after that incident in 1904. I wonder how many remain now.

I don't think we ever had a synagogue in the town, did we?

I thought the red brick building on the corner of henry and mallow street was a Jewish synagogue? (Near riverpoint)

topper75

OwenM wrote: »

I thought the red brick building on the corner of henry and mallow street was a Jewish synagogue? (Near riverpoint)

No, that is the Presbyterian church you are thinking of:

http://www.buildingsofireland.ie/niah/search.jsp?type=record&county=LI&regno=21517020

lockman

topper75 wrote: »

I'm told the number of jews in the city actually increased in the time after that incident in 1904. I wonder how many remain now.

I don't think we ever had a synagogue in the town, did we?

Yes, indeed there was..

The first Limerick synagogue was located on Wolfe Tone Street. It is now a residential home - there isnt a plaque or anything like that to commemorate it.

topper75

lockman wrote: »

Yes, indeed there was..

The first Limerick synagogue was located on Wolfe Tone Street. It is now a residential home - there isnt a plaque or anything like that to commemorate it.

Thanks lockman Sir. Any link (or paper source of info) to further details on this?

Edit: - sorry lockman - I got to answer my own question with a simple Google -

http://www.jewishgen.org/jcr-uk/Ireland/limerick/index.htm

thefishone

Is there a small Jewish graveyard up near Punches cross?

Vanolder

thefishone wrote: »

Is there a small Jewish graveyard up near Punches cross?

Think thats a Quaker graveyard...

SarahBeep!

It looks really really nice in there though. I remember before all around punches and the old petrol atation was boarded up and my Dad showed me a few years back. Far nicer than any of the main graveyards in Limerick.

panda100

RC grave yards can be fairly tacky. The one in Rathkeale is like a mini las vegas with all the flashy headstones.

Amazotheamazing

From the Leader, as has been pointed out, the numbers of Jewish people in Limerick increased after the so-called pogrom, good to see the Israeli ambassador setting the record straight, of course, the boycott was a shameful episode.


Jewish envoy says Limerick pogrom is 'over-portrayed'

Published Date: 06 November 2010
By Donal O'Regan
THE Limerick pogrom is seen as a dark chapter in Limerick's history, but the new Israeli ambassador to Ireland says it has been over-portrayed.
In 1904, a young Redemptorist priest, Fr John Creagh, delivered a fiery sermon castigating Jews for their rejection of Christ, taking over the local economy and selling shoddy goods at inflated prices to be paid for in instalments.

He urged Catholics not to deal with Jews and it has been reported that 80 Jews were driven from their homes.

The new Israeli ambassador, Boaz Modai, speaking at the Jewish cemetery in Castletroy said: "I think it is a bit over-portrayed, meaning that, usually if you look up the word pogrom it is used in relation to slaughter and being killed.

"This is what happened in many other places in Europe, but this is not what happened here. There was a kind of a boycott against Jewish merchandise for a while, but that's not a pogrom. That's something that is, unfortunately, a bad mark for the history of this city, but I don't think it is something anyone should pay more attention to than it deserves."

Mr Modai took up his position six weeks ago and said he wanted his first visit outside of Dublin to be Limerick.

"I did this deliberately. I read and heard about Limerick. It has to do with the Chamber of Commerce and University of Limerick – one of the professors is going on a delegation to Israel. I had this interest, so that's why I started with Limerick," said Mr Modai.

The Jewish cemetery, which was restored and is maintained by Limerick Civic Trust, was another reason for his trip.

Around this time last year, Mr Modai's predecessor, Zion Evrony, visited the cemetery and told his predecessor that he couldn't omit it from his visit.

The keen historian complimented Limerick Civic Trust on the upkeep of the cemetery and said it was a great experience to see it.

Mr Modai said trade links between Ireland and Israel were worth almost €400m, with 80 per cent of that being exports from Ireland.

Mr Evrony had said in Limerick that his goal was "to bridge the gap between Israel's image and its reality, as well as to promote tourism and trade between our two countries".

Mr Modai said he couldn't have summed it up better. "There is a lot in common between our two peoples and out two societies. I think we can contribute one to another much more than it seems at first, and I'll do my best to help with that."

Jewish man Stuart Clein, who has lived in Limerick for 54 years, told the ambassador that the term "Limerick pogrom" was completely inaccurate.

"If you look up pogrom up in the Oxford Dictionary it says massacres and killings. I spent months researching it and there was not an injury other than a young lad threw a stone at a rabbi. That was it. There was nobody hurt."

donutheadhomer

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

From the Leader, as has been pointed out, the numbers of Jewish people in Limerick increased after the so-called pogrom, good to see the Israeli ambassador setting the record straight, of course, the boycott was a shameful episode.


Jewish envoy says Limerick pogrom is 'over-portrayed'

Published Date: 06 November 2010
By Donal O'Regan
THE Limerick pogrom is seen as a dark chapter in Limerick's history, but the new Israeli ambassador to Ireland says it has been over-portrayed.
In 1904, a young Redemptorist priest, Fr John Creagh, delivered a fiery sermon castigating Jews for their rejection of Christ, taking over the local economy and selling shoddy goods at inflated prices to be paid for in instalments.

He urged Catholics not to deal with Jews and it has been reported that 80 Jews were driven from their homes.

The new Israeli ambassador, Boaz Modai, speaking at the Jewish cemetery in Castletroy said: "I think it is a bit over-portrayed, meaning that, usually if you look up the word pogrom it is used in relation to slaughter and being killed.

"This is what happened in many other places in Europe, but this is not what happened here. There was a kind of a boycott against Jewish merchandise for a while, but that's not a pogrom. That's something that is, unfortunately, a bad mark for the history of this city, but I don't think it is something anyone should pay more attention to than it deserves."

Mr Modai took up his position six weeks ago and said he wanted his first visit outside of Dublin to be Limerick.

"I did this deliberately. I read and heard about Limerick. It has to do with the Chamber of Commerce and University of Limerick – one of the professors is going on a delegation to Israel. I had this interest, so that's why I started with Limerick," said Mr Modai.

The Jewish cemetery, which was restored and is maintained by Limerick Civic Trust, was another reason for his trip.

Around this time last year, Mr Modai's predecessor, Zion Evrony, visited the cemetery and told his predecessor that he couldn't omit it from his visit.

The keen historian complimented Limerick Civic Trust on the upkeep of the cemetery and said it was a great experience to see it.

Mr Modai said trade links between Ireland and Israel were worth almost €400m, with 80 per cent of that being exports from Ireland.

Mr Evrony had said in Limerick that his goal was "to bridge the gap between Israel's image and its reality, as well as to promote tourism and trade between our two countries".

Mr Modai said he couldn't have summed it up better. "There is a lot in common between our two peoples and out two societies. I think we can contribute one to another much more than it seems at first, and I'll do my best to help with that."

Jewish man Stuart Clein, who has lived in Limerick for 54 years, told the ambassador that the term "Limerick pogrom" was completely inaccurate.

"If you look up pogrom up in the Oxford Dictionary it says massacres and killings. I spent months researching it and there was not an injury other than a young lad threw a stone at a rabbi. That was it. There was nobody hurt."

My grandad told me that young guy went to jail and when he came back he was carried around the town by hundreds on a throne from the railway station.

Karmafaerie

I've always been interested in the "Pogrom".
Ever since a Jewish minister used it as an excuse when the Isreali army killed Irish peacekeepers in the Lebanon.
I think the basic jist was "look at what they did to us in Limerick" rather than sorry for killing your citizens.

When I actually looked into it, and discovered what it entailed I was shocked at how badly it was misrepresented.

In fairness there was little difference between what happened in Limerick and what happened in Cork when they sent the Dutch jews to Limerick in the first place.

It's amazing how things can be warped till it gets out of control.

Raiser

There you go - The Pogrom was grand really, I suppose having People turn on you and your Family in a small-minded, bitter, begrudging, xenophobic campaign of hatred is relatively mild in comparison to what has happen the Jewish People elsewhere.

- I suppose on the wider scale of things there does remain in place countless other reasons to despise the Redemptorists and everything they stand for......

Karmafaerie

Raiser wrote: »

There you go - The Pogrom was grand really, I suppose having People turn on you and your Family in a small-minded, bitter, begrudging, xenophobic campaign of hatred is relatively mild in comparison to what has happen the Jewish People elsewhere.

- I suppose on the wider scale of things there does remain in place countless other reasons to despise the Redemptorists and everything they stand for......

Who's saying it's fine?!

It's a terrible part of our history, but just because of that, doesn't give others the excuse to make it out as being more than it actually is.

If the Irish army killed some British peace keeping toops, do you think it'd be okay for our government to refuse to appologise citing the many atrocities that England inflicted on the Irish hundreds of years ago?
And lets call a spade a spade here, the "pogrom", while reprehensible, was nowhere near as serious as that.

A lot of Limerick people need to be educated on how bad it was.
But a hell of a lot more people need to be educated on how bad it wasn't.

Raiser

Karmafaerie wrote: »

A lot of Limerick people need to be educated on how bad it was.
But a hell of a lot more people need to be educated on how bad it wasn't.

Would you stop!!!

- How am I supposed to know which group I am currently in?

Amazotheamazing

Karmafaerie wrote: »

A lot of Limerick people need to be educated on how bad it was.
But a hell of a lot more people need to be educated on how bad it wasn't.

You could easily change was/wasn't for is/isn't, imo.

The boycott, such that it was, was certainly a shameful moment in Limerick's history but as the census shows, the Jewish community continued to prosper in Limerick afterwards and as such it should be relegated to it's proper place in Limerick's history, more of a footnote than a focal point.

History, of course, is malleable, most Irish people don't realise Sarsfield was a staunch royalist who had little interest in an independent Ireland for example.

Raiser

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

the Jewish community continued to prosper in Limerick afterwards and as such it should be relegated to it's proper place in Limerick's history, more of a footnote than a focal point.

Is that not flawed logic though?

- For sake of example, if Kess73 picked a particular minority within our Society and chose to systematically plague, pester, beat and firebomb them but yet through no other factor other than that groups own resilience, determination, and work ethic they survived and managed to prosper despite the evil Kess's malevolent intent and actions - how should that change the way history records the event or even subsequently serve to determine its 'place' in history?

I think it should be recorded as something like the below.

The People of Limerick were petty, smalltime, religious Cnuts who were so begrudging and envious of Others it took a Man in a Dress 15 seconds to convince them to kick off a Pogrom.

- But it turned out they were shít at Pogroms.

The End.

Amazotheamazing

Raiser wrote: »

Is that not flawed logic though?

- For sake of example, if Kess73 picked a particular minority within our Society and chose to systematically plague, pester, beat and firebomb them but yet through no other factor other than that groups own resilience, determination, and work ethic they survived and managed to prosper despite the evil Kess's malevolent intent and actions - how should that change the way history records the event or even subsequently serve to determine its 'place' in history?

I think it should be recorded as something like the below.

The People of Limerick were petty, smalltime, religious Cnuts who were so begrudging and envious of Others it took a Man in a Dress 15 seconds for them to kick off a Pogrom.

- But it turned out they were shít at Pogroms.

The End.

No it shouldn't, it's not like in Germany where everyone (nearly) helped the Nazi's kill the Jews, in Limerick it was clearly a minority of people and it was denounced by the higher ups in the Church.

Do you have an evidence it was any more than a minority?

We may not like it (in this instance) but people are free to boycott any business they choose to, doesn't make it a pogrom.

You do understand the difference between a boycott and a pogrom, right?

Raiser

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

No it shouldn't, it's not like in Germany where everyone (nearly) helped the Nazi's kill the Jews

Like I said, we tried, but we were really shít at Pogroms

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Do you have an evidence it was any more than a minority?

I'm sure we tried to get People organised but we lacked aptitude and the Pogrom ethic.

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

We may not like it (in this instance) but people are free to boycott any business they choose to, doesn't make it a pogrom.

How many other specifics would you like to remove? - If you take out enough negatives you'll just be left with Cake, Balloons and Party games.....

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

You do understand the difference between a boycott and a pogrom, right?

I don't know now - Which one didn't happen in Limerick again?

Amazotheamazing

Raiser wrote: »

Like I said, we tried, but we were really shít at Pogroms




I'm sure we tried to get People organised but we lacked aptitude and the Pogrom ethic.



How many other specifics would you like to remove? - If you take out enough negatives you'll just be left with Cake, Balloons and Party games.....



I don't know now - Which one didn't happen in Limerick again?

So, in short, you don't know the difference.

Here's a link to dictionary.com, the whole world of education awaits you...
http://dictionary.reference.com/

Raiser

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

So, in short, you don't know the difference.

Here's a link to dictionary.com, the whole world of education awaits you...
http://dictionary.reference.com/

Weaker than I expected from you.

- You must have realised that at the time?

Here, a World of cop on awaits you http://www.HowNotToBeAnOnlineKnob.com

Amazotheamazing

Raiser wrote: »

Weaker than I expected from you.

- You must have realised that at the time?

Here, a World of cop on awaits you http://www.HowNotToBeAnOnlineKnob.com

If that site couldn't help you I won't even bother checking it, thanks though.

Anyhow, now you're completely off topic, any chance you'll leave this thread to the adults who actually want to discuss Limerick's history? The Pogrom has been repeatedly discounted and should be put in it's proper context.