Don Fink vs Joe Friel

shotgunmcos

Ok who would win in a celebrity IM death match..?!

Seriously though, It seems these two pave the way for the self coached triathlete/ironman. I have the JF bible for the last year but haven't read it thouroughly or used it much. Mainly because I felt I needed a decent year of learning from my mistakes as a rookie before I applied the science to the training. I have noticed a few of the logs, Metal Dog, Izoard, Griffin100 et al using DF's Iron Fit programmes. And I know some others are using JF's bible.

Would ye mind casting your thoughts on what you have used?
How do the approaches of JF and DF differ?
How would you rate their generic plans?
What have you learned from using either plan?

Much appreciated

Izoard

Well, I like Fink as he starts from the position that you are trying to fit training around the rest of your life, rather than the other way around.

Also, the whole science part of training is a turn off for me, so Fink is nice and simple to follow.

However, taking the view that formula is always better then feel, I'm guessing Friel gives you more bang-for-your-buck.

tunney

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Ok who would win in a celebrity IM death match..?!

Seriously though, It seems these two pave the way for the self coached triathlete/ironman. I have the JF bible for the last year but haven't read it thouroughly or used it much. Mainly because I felt I needed a decent year of learning from my mistakes as a rookie before I applied the science to the training. I have noticed a few of the logs, Metal Dog, Izoard, Griffin100 et al using DF's Iron Fit programmes. And I know some others are using JF's bible.

Would ye mind casting your thoughts on what you have used?
How do the approaches of JF and DF differ?
How would you rate their generic plans?
What have you learned from using either plan?

Much appreciated

Hate to do this to ya MCOS - but DF and JF are only going to work to a point. I think you've passed that.

I find myself reading everything and anything related to LD stuff and taking what I think fits into my bigger picture. Sometimes this means redefining the bigger picture.

shotgunmcos

tunney wrote: »

Hate to do this to ya MCOS - but DF and JF are only going to work to a point. I think you've passed that.

I find myself reading everything and anything related to LD stuff and taking what I think fits into my bigger picture. Sometimes this means redefining the bigger picture.

Aye I too like to read everything and anything. What are your own thoughts on the 2? I doubt any of our boards guys followed the generic plans to the letter but I noted that DF and JF were consistant reference points and also note over on other uk and us forums they are highly rated.

El Director

As you know shotgun I'm not that experienced myself but I'll give you my 2c anyway.

I bought JF's book last year upon the advice of boardies here. I too felt the same as you re waiting until I made my own mistakes but decided to read through it all the same to see if I could take anything from it. I planned to read through it again this autumn, this time I will have a much better understanding of it.

JF makes it plainly obvious that a generic plan is not the ideal. He does take into account that not everybody will have the same time to train so when you start to make your own personal plan that is where he starts. How many hours per week can you but aside for training. What I liked about his method is that he basically gives you guidelines to create your own plan. It helped me create this years plan, the overall plan, monthly plan, weekly and race week plans. I referred to it quite a bit throughout this season. As you know I have suffered injury and illness this year and this is also covered.

I like to read as much as I can also but I must say I am really looking forward to returning to reading this book this autumn. I don't have the Fink book. I take it you, like me, are already planning for next year. Hope this helps.

tunney

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Aye I too like to read everything and anything. What are your own thoughts on the 2? I doubt any of our boards guys followed the generic plans to the letter but I noted that DF and JF were consistant reference points and also note over on other uk and us forums they are highly rated.

Maybe you should get a coach. Oh no wait.................

pgibbo

Haven't read anything from Fink but I have browsed the Bible and "Going Long". I'm still undecided to be honest on the approaches. I think there may be better ways to get bang for your buck.

Any thoughts on Matt Fitzgerald? I'm enjoying Brain Training for Runners. I see has a couple of Triathlon Books too.

tunney

pgibbo wrote: »

Haven't read anything from Fink but I have browsed the Bible and "Going Long". I'm still undecided to be honest on the approaches. I think there may be better ways to get bang for your buck.

Any thoughts on Matt Fitzgerald? I'm enjoying Brain Training for Runners. I see has a couple of Triathlon Books too.

Read alot of his articles and some of his books. Reading Racing Weight at the moment.

Some interesting thoughts, more specific to running though. Interesting his comments on Pose, Chi etc etc.

shotgunmcos

pgibbo wrote: »

Haven't read anything from Fink but I have browsed the Bible and "Going Long". I'm still undecided to be honest on the approaches. I think there may be better ways to get bang for your buck.

Any thoughts on Matt Fitzgerald? I'm enjoying Brain Training for Runners. I see has a couple of Triathlon Books too.

What didn't you like about Friel's literature?

tunney wrote: »

Maybe you should get a coach. Oh no wait.................

What, one with a TI cert and a smile.. cool where can I get me one of those!

shotgunmcos

tunney wrote: »

Hate to do this to ya MCOS - but DF and JF are only going to work to a point.

I find myself reading everything and anything related to LD stuff .

What point do those get you to? What have you read lately that you'd recommend?

pgibbo

I wouldn't say that I disliked it MCOS. Was in a hurry earlier when I replied. I didn't mean for it to come across that way. I have based all my plans and training loosely off Friel to date.

I find myself changing that a bit now and using run sessions from FIRST & Fitzgerald. I've adopted some of the Chris Carmichael stuff for my cycling. I'm also using swim sessions that a friend recommended. I found that there wasn't enough detail behind the purpose of each session in the Friel book. I found his sections on training cycles, methodologies, etc very good but I think some of the sessions in the plans were lacking detail and maybe substance at times also. I also found the HR stuff very good in the Bible. Maybe I need to just invest more time and read more of the book rather than making generalisations. I think it's a good place to start though.

I would love to see a recommended reading list from tunney and a few others on here.

shotgunmcos

pgibbo wrote: »

I would love to see a recommended reading list from tunney and a few others on here.

+1 me too. Logged onto Amazon the other night and want to order a few books to get the free delivery so may as well order some good ones. Any good recommendations from our lurking IM ers and or lurking coaches would be good

tunney

Books I've read recently or am presently reading:

• Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald
• Training and Racing with a Power Meter 2nd edition (and 1st edition, second edition is updated and contains more information and updated)
• Daniels' Running Formula: Proven programs: 800 m to the marathon
• Advanced Marathoning
• Brain Training for Runners
• Noakes Lore of Running (something you always read, again and again)
• The Paleo Diet for Athletes
• Championship Swimming

Not 100% sure on Daniels and Advanced marathoning and the Brain Training book is really just an extension of the Central Govenor theory proposed by Noakes in "Lore of Running".
Championship swimming is interesting but not worth it.

An absence of swimming books (can't really learn from a book).
Also of cycling books - Training and Racing covers all that really.
Also of triathlon books - would love for there to be a good one

I've read papers and studies on nutrition as well and its things like this that give the most bang per buck.

hunnymonster

Tunney, how would you rate Championship swimming? I'm looking for a swimming book but all I come across are biop's or teach-yourself books. I'm looking something to help me with planning balanced sessions.

tunney

hunnymonster wrote: »

Tunney, how would you rate Championship swimming? I'm looking for a swimming book but all I come across are biop's or teach-yourself books. I'm looking something to help me with planning balanced sessions.

I'd offer to post it to you for a lend but it weighs 3kg.

Okay, very technical. Trying to learn fly out of it

MrCreosote

tunney wrote: »

Trying to learn fly out of it

For triathlon? Or purely for intimidation purposes at the pool?!

tunney

MrCreosote wrote: »

For triathlon? Or purely for intimidation purposes at the pool?!

Cause I can't do it.

mloc123

tunney wrote: »

[*]The Paleo Diet for Athletes

Is this worth getting? I am going to have to change things around come September I think to drop this final stone... good read to get started?

tunney

mloc123 wrote: »

Is this worth getting? I am going to have to change things around come September I think to drop this final stone... good read to get started?

First few chapters are great then it really goes downhill. Better off just borrowing mine.

mloc123

tunney wrote: »

First few chapters are great then it really goes downhill. Better off just borrowing mine.

If thats an offer I'll take you up on it

tunney

mloc123 wrote: »

If thats an offer I'll take you up on it

Yip. Sure is.

El Director

Training and Racing with a Power Meter

Tunney I am hoping to do all my turbo training this winter based on power and was thinking of getting this book. My turbo does measure power (Tacx Flow Ergotrainer T1680 - not sure how accurate) Do you need to have a power tap/power meter on your bike for the book to make sense (they are quite expensive as you know). Are there power training sessions outlined in the book?

Cheers.

tunney

El Director wrote: »

Training and Racing with a Power Meter

Tunney I am hoping to do all my turbo training this winter based on power and was thinking of getting this book. My turbo does measure power (Tacx Flow Ergotrainer T1680 - not sure how accurate) Do you need to have a power tap/power meter on your bike for the book to make sense (they are quite expensive as you know). Are there power training sessions outlined in the book?

Cheers.

Depends on how comfortable you are on the turbo.

It gives lots of sessions and season planning work. Alot of it more for cyclists than triathletes, but this has improved in the second edition.

You could adapt the programmes for HRM use on the road but it wouldn't be quite as good as using a PM. That being said I know lads who have PMs and refuse to use them on the road

If you are interested in the first edition second hand to get a taster for what its like and then decide I've one going cheap.

El Director

I actually love turbo work! One of my fav sessions.

Re the book - ya that sounds good, pm me the details and I'll have a read through it. Cheers.