Debating WWE as pro-wrestling (an opinion)

Mono-Stereo

From reading this forum and other forums I'm surprised that so many people still debate over WWE when it is after all a glorified kids TV show today!! There's much better wrestling out there to satisfy you besides WWE. I know WWE gets most of the attention because it is the biggest mainstream wrestling promotion in the world. I grew up watching WWF. It was the first promotion I was exposed to on TV. I've been a wrestling fan for about 22 years and have followed countless promotions from all over the world. It amazes me that in 2010 people still debate over WWE when the simple fact is that WWE is not aimed at pro-wrestling fans anymore. WWE is a multi-billion dollar company and has far outgrown its need to cater exclusively to pro-wrestling fans only. The WWE is today much more interested in catching the attention of the casual fan who doesn't tune in every week but will tune in for some hot angle just like people tune back into shows like Eastenders etc for a short while when they hear about a hot storyline reaching its peak. The type of fan WWE caters to today is someone who surfs the TV channels and stops for a few minutes if they see something good on a random channel and then continue surfing channels after they lose interest.

The days of WWE being aimed exclusively at pro-wrestling fans is long gone. The last time WWE needed to cater to pro-wrestling fans exclusively and even listen a little to the opinions of pro-wrestling fans was back at the height of "The Monday Night Wars" when WWE had no choice but to give pro-wrestling fans what they wanted in order for the company to survive. With "The Monday Night Wars" won and no real competition on the same level as WWE in the pro-wrestling industry today, the WWE has changed its outlook and broadened its scope to other areas of the media. The core target audience for WWE today is the casual fan who likes sports and action movies and young kids (and their parents wallets). The pro-wrestling fan is nowadays left out in the cold when it comes to WWE.

The way people continue to debate WWE in terms of pro-wrestling today really surprises me. Pro-wrestling is not the primary emphasis of WWE today. Pro-wrestling has become just one small part of the many parts the make up an "entertainment" show. The fact that people debate over how for example John Cena continually wins match after match is irrelevant. He is the Hulk Hogan of today. What do both of these characters have in common? Well, they are both super pushed as huge babyface super hero characters and they make a ton of money through merchandising for the company because of this. The only difference between the two is how big a part pro-wrestling plays in each of their roles. Back in the 1980's during Hogans time pro-wrestling was the focal point of WWE. That was what WWE, the company, was known for exclusively. That was their main selling point. Now in the 21st Century that has all changed. WWE no longer has pro-wrestling exclusively as its focal point. The mass media and entertainment world is now the focal point of WWE with pro-wrestling taking a back seat role. John Cena is the main strategy WWE has in their media/entertainment business model of today.

The WWE of today is not the WWF/WWE that alot of us here grew up with and loved. Times have changed. Society has changed. World culture has changed. Peoples attitudes have changed. Big business has moved in. The corporate culture has, just like in many other facets of life, become the dominant force in the WWE today. WWE is now a stock market company and with that comes responsibility to shareholders and boards of management etc. To these people the bottom line is profit. So, today WWE views its wrestlers in terms of marketability and merchandising to the general public - a much larger audience and a much larger source of potential revenue than the smaller audience of purely pro-wrestling fans.

In the mainstream pro-wrestling industry today, pro-wrestling is not pro-wrestling anymore. Pro-wrestling is big business with a huge corporate model behind it. To view WWE in terms of pro-wrestling alone is not possible anymore. There are many more factors involved in decision making and storyline/angle booking than just merely pro-wrestling anymore. To think of WWE as a pro-wrestling company anymore and to debate it in terms of pro-wrestling alone is redundant. There is a much bigger picture involved.

What are peoples views here on the WWE as a pro-wrestling company today? Do you maybe feel left out a little as a pro-wrestling fan by the WWE? Do you consider it more of an entertainment company today aimed at the general public who are not full time pro-wrestling fans or do you still feel that the WWE has something to offer traditional pro-wrestling fans today?

DM_7

I'm not sure what discussion topic your putting forward.

Are you saying WWE is not Just Pro Wrestling? Of course its not, thats why they added the E!

If you just wanted to express an opinion without any discussion to come from it maybe you could of started a blog or something.

Some clarification would be welcome!

Mr.Nice Guy

I agree with some of your points but I think you're mistaken when you talk about the 80s:

Back in the 1980's during Hogans time pro-wrestling was the focal point of WWE. That was what WWE, the company, was known for exclusively. That was their main selling point. Now in the 21st Century that has all changed. WWE no longer has pro-wrestling exclusively as its focal point. The mass media and entertainment world is now the focal point of WWE with pro-wrestling taking a back seat role. John Cena is the main strategy WWE has in their media/entertainment business model of today.

Surely it was during Hogan's time when this mindset first started? The film and TV roles for Hogan, appearances on talk shows, the branching out into the music industry. This is surely when the mass media and entertainment world joined forces with the wrestling industry so I don't accept your assessment that things nowadays are different to that era.

I would say the two biggest angles of 2010 in WWE were the Michaels/Taker main event at Wrestlemania and the Nexus angle and both were very much pro wrestling angles. I wouldn't say either angles were angles for kids but old school wrestling fans. That's why they worked.

flahavaj

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I agree with some of your points but I think you're mistaken when you talk about the 80s:



Surely it was during Hogan's time when this mindset first started? The film and TV roles for Hogan, appearances on talk shows, the branching out into the music industry. This is surely when the mass media and entertainment world joined forces with the wrestling industry so I don't accept your assessment that things nowadays are different to that era.

I would say the two biggest angles of 2010 in WWE were the Michaels/Taker main event at Wrestlemania and the Nexus angle and both were very much pro wrestling angles. I wouldn't say either angles were angles for kids but old school wrestling fans. That's why they worked.

Agreed - WWF was never more cartoonish and child-oriented than it was in the 80's -which directly contradicts the OP on this point.

A good read OP, but what exactly are you trying to say?

CMpunked

I agree with the majority of your post but have to disagree with one bit.

The last time wwe pushed for the attention of pro wrestling fans wasn't as far back as your saying.

Some of the best wrestling was when wwe had Angle, Benoit, Eddie, to name a few.
Smackdown was red hot wrestling wise when these 3(and others) were the faces of the brand.

Mono-Stereo

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I agree with some of your points but I think you're mistaken when you talk about the 80s:



Surely it was during Hogan's time when this mindset first started? The film and TV roles for Hogan, appearances on talk shows, the branching out into the music industry. This is surely when the mass media and entertainment world joined forces with the wrestling industry so I don't accept your assessment that things nowadays are different to that era.

I would say the two biggest angles of 2010 in WWE were the Michaels/Taker main event at Wrestlemania and the Nexus angle and both were very much pro wrestling angles. I wouldn't say either angles were angles for kids but old school wrestling fans. That's why they worked.

I agree with you that it was in the 80's when the "entertainment factor" joined forces with wrestling. My point is that since the 80's the "entertainment factor" has grown and grown more to the point that now in the 21st Century it is the dominant focal point in WWE. The two have swapped places. Pro-wrestling was once the main focus with "entertainment" second but slowly the pro-wrestling aspect over the years has been overtaken by more of an emphasis on mainstream entertainment. The pro-wrestling purely for pro-wrestling fans of old has given way to a much more accessible product aimed at the general public and not exclusively at pro-wrestling fans. The WWE itself is now part of a much larger media/entertainment company portfolio than it was back in the 1980's when pro-wrestling still was the dominant product of the companies portfolio.

The HBK/Taker angle at WM 25 was an old school wrestling angle for sure. There had to be a nod to the companies past at the 25th anniversary. It made perfect business sense. Many people who might not have watched wrestling in years would have been interested in such a milestone as Wrestlemania's 25th anniversary. I'm not saying all old school pro-wrestling angles in WWE are dead and gone. The two examples you gave above are proof. My point is that those old school angles are very few and far between today. They still happen just not as often as they used to.

Machismo Fan

But WWE have repeatedly failed to succeed outside of wrestling whether it be films, American Football or Bodybuilding, at the end of the day as much as they can try to hide it Pro Wrestling is their bread and butter. WWE is still a wrestling company, putting on wrestling shows, building up wrestling characters towards wrestling matches. They may try to deviate from that at times but they always have to come back to it.

Mono-Stereo

CMpunked wrote: »

I agree with the majority of your post but have to disagree with one bit.

The last time wwe pushed for the attention of pro wrestling fans wasn't as far back as your saying.

Some of the best wrestling was when wwe had Angle, Benoit, Eddie, to name a few.
Smackdown was red hot wrestling wise when these 3(and others) were the faces of the brand.

I get your point but I don't think WWE was pushing to get pro-wrestling fans attention back then. At that time they were the only game in town with WCW on it's last legs and finally going out of business. WWE had a roster of talent back then that naturally drew pro-wrestling fans to the WWE without much effort or push needed.

DM_7

flahavaj wrote: »

Agreed - WWF was never more cartoonish and child-oriented than it was in the 80's -which directly contradicts the OP on this point.

A good read OP, but what exactly are you trying to say?

Thats I what I was wondering!

Mono-Stereo

My point was:

Do you still think it's viable to debate and discuss WWE in terms of pro-wrestling anymore?

In my view I think not. To me as a pro-wrestling fan of 22 or so years I don't look at WWE as a pro-wrestling company anymore. I view them as an "entertainment" company that have wrestling elements attached. I know that sounds weird since there is wrestling on every show and PPV. I see them more now as a company driven by profit and stock markets. They value a fans wallet more than a fans opinion. As the profits have risen over the years the value and quality of wrestling has declined. With WWE venturing more aggressively today into other avenues of the media I feel that they use the wrestling aspect of the company as a springboard into other media - music, film etc.

The old-school ethos of pro-wrestling has been replaced by a more media savvy mindset that is more accessible to other forms of media - the two can crossover much more easily than the past.

That's a good thing for the company but for long time pro-wrestling fans I feel that it might alienate them somewhat. The pro-wrestling aspect has been sanitized and dumbed down for general mass public consumption which has led to forgettable matches and generic characters.

Machismo Fan

For me while the presentation of Wrestling has changed (and will always constantly change) it's nonetheless still Wrestling.

flahavaj

Do you mean match quality - because match quality in WWE of 2010 is far far better than it was in the 80's or 90's when you look at PPv cards as a whole.

Old school angles have been replaced by modern, more entertainment centric storylines, but you have to move with the times. The 80's had simplistic face - heel divides with cartoonish characters, the 90's had the in your fae attitude era ad now we have PG centric storylines. Time goes on, wrestling,like music, fashion and film goes through cycles. But at the end of the day its still pro wrestling, you stiull have TV being built toartds PPv cards where feuds are resolved amd Wrestlemania once a year as the World Series of the bueiness.

Certainly theres no shortage of actual wrestling in the modern product - theres more than enough in the 7+ hours of TV they put out every week. I think you have a rose tinted view of the past as well - was it really better in the 80's when you had mainly squash matches on TV and an undercard generally filled with throwaway rubbish? WWE never produced a decent top-to-bottom Wrestlemania card with great wrestling until well the 2000's. The early Wrestlemanias were dogsh*t inters of actial wrestling, (save for the odd gem like Steamboat/Savage)and you can count on one hand the amount of good actual wrestling matches that were staged at Manias up until Mania 8.

Mono-Stereo

Honestly I think I've just grown out of WWE. I'm not a kid so therefore today's product that WWE offers really has no interest to me. I still love pro-wrestling as much as I did as a kid but I think my tastes have changed. I have no problem with people liking the WWE product today but there's nothing in it for me anymore -nothing grabs my attention or makes me sit on the edge of my seat. I still watch pro-wrestling from all over the world but the WWE has over the past 3 or 4 years not been the pro-wrestling I've been looking for.

We each have different tastes and tastes can change over time.

Charisteas

Mono-Stereo wrote: »

It amazes me that in 2010 people still debate over WWE when the simple fact is that WWE is not aimed at pro-wrestling fans anymore. WWE is a multi-billion dollar company and has far outgrown its need to cater exclusively to pro-wrestling fans only. The WWE is today much more interested in catching the attention of the casual fan who doesn't tune in every week but will tune in for some hot angle just like people tune back into shows like Eastenders etc for a short while when they hear about a hot storyline reaching its peak. The type of fan WWE caters to today is someone who surfs the TV channels and stops for a few minutes if they see something good on a random channel and then continue surfing channels after they lose interest.

The days of WWE being aimed exclusively at pro-wrestling fans is long gone. The last time WWE needed to cater to pro-wrestling fans exclusively and even listen a little to the opinions of pro-wrestling fans was back at the height of "The Monday Night Wars" when WWE had no choice but to give pro-wrestling fans what they wanted in order for the company to survive. With "The Monday Night Wars" won and no real competition on the same level as WWE in the pro-wrestling industry today, the WWE has changed its outlook and broadened its scope to other areas of the media. The core target audience for WWE today is the casual fan who likes sports and action movies and young kids (and their parents wallets). The pro-wrestling fan is nowadays left out in the cold when it comes to WWE.

The WWE is always interested in attracting casual fans and converting them into full-time fans, but casual fans don't buy PPV's, DVD's or merchandise, so I believe that their existing fanbase is always more important. They are going in a new direction these last few years, a lot of this PG swerve is all about sponsorship, and they are also trying to go more mainstream in the media such as pushing their facebook, twitter, and movies, but it doesn't mean that they are saying goodbye to the existing pro-wrestling fans, they are saying something more like come along for the ride, (even if a lot of us sometimes don't enjoy the journey!)

Vince135792003

Mono-Stereo wrote: »

My point was:

Do you still think it's viable to debate and discuss WWE in terms of pro-wrestling anymore?

Was it viable 60 years ago when Gorgeous George was a big draw in pro-wrestling?

Or in World Class Championship Wrestling in Texas 30 years ago when Sunshine had to wash Kevin Von Erichs dog after beating Gorgeous Jimmy Garvin.

Or in Memphis 30 years ago when Andy Kaufmann was wrestling woman and shooting angles on the David Letterman show.

Entertainment has always been in wrestling in varying degrees throughout it's history.

Have some of the traditional foundations of wrestling being lost (like the value of title belts)? I would say yes but at the same time each month WWE are selling the outcome of feuds for 50 dollars in a pro-wrestling ring on ppv.