Could I change my alarm setup?

bazwaldo

My alarm is 11 years old, is hard-wired and has monitoring using the telephone landline. I get a call when alarm goes off from the monitoring company and if we are out, I get them to ring our neighbour to check it out for us. Its around €200 per year for the monitoring. Its not a verified system so we may get cut off from Garda call outs one of these days due to false alarm.

As far as I know the GSM type text messaging thing was not too common back then and since I've always wished our alarm used this rather than having to fork out each year compared to using a sim card or texting over the phone line. Also I could get rid of the phone line too.

I enquired with our alarm installer and it was €600 I think around 2 years ago if I wanted to upgrade our system to using the GSM texting method.

Looking here I see that GSM isn't as secure as it used to be with the use of jammers. But if I wanted to use the landline to text instead, do I have any options?

Would I need a completely new system (all seems wireless these days), or could the current wiring be used?

Its an Aritech alarm afaik. I'm handy enough with DIY so wouldn't be afraid to do something myself but I have no experience with alarms and have never seen a manual to our unit.

KoolKid

You could get a text dialler via you land line if your provider is Eircom or Vodafone. Although I hear texting via landline is on way out . Your better option would be to use a voice dialler. This can make a voice call via any provider & play a prerecorded message. What make is your alarm? You may need engineer access to programme outputs.

bazwaldo

The key panel says Aritech. I guess its the main board with all the cabling that specifies the actual model number. I could open it up this evening to see if any info is in it.

The crowd who installed it has the number. Surely they would give me the engineer access number if I asked as it is my alarm. I'd need to get an instruction manual too somewhere.

KoolKid

More than likely a CS350. User manuals are here
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055973617
If you want an engineer manual you can request it in that thread.
Don't expect the installation company to give out thier engineer code, most won't.
If you are using a standalone digi you could probably use the outputs as they are . If you could post what digi the panel is using it would help. If its a TD8812 you can add a voice module onto that digi. You would also need engineer code for the digi. (Default is 7812)

bazwaldo

Loads of user manuals about but found the CS350 installation instructions ,<snip>

Hopefully thats the one I have.

KoolKid

Please do not link to installation manuals,
See this post
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055973617

bazwaldo

koolkid wrote: »

Please do not link to installation manuals,
See this post
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055973617

Sorry about that. I missed the line about the service manuals when I read first time round.

You were right about it being a CS350. I'll see if I can make sense of the service manual and take it from there. If its easy to explain, how do I know what "digi" is being used now?

KoolKid

The digi will be a seperate board to the main panel. It will have cables wired from terminals 8 9 10 11 (some or all)
If you describe that or post a picture I can tell you more.

bazwaldo

koolkid wrote: »

The digi will be a seperate board to the main panel. It will have cables wired from terminals 8 9 10 11 (some or all)
If you describe that or post a picture I can tell you more.

Excuse the quality, I took these with my phone. I will take better ones if required.

[EDIT] Removing showing images as they are too big and too poor of quality [/EDIT]

bazwaldo

I looked again just there and followed wires from 8-11 (yellow and blue) and it led to under the mainboard. Under there was 2 blocks. One with a inputs A-D & 1-8 and another block marked TD8412.

bazwaldo

I tried the default codes 1278 and 7812 and the usual 1111, 2222, etc and 1234 and none work. So I will have to call the crowd who installed it. Are they not obliged to give over the code?

Before I go ringing for the code, whats involved in changing my setup to using voice dialler? Is it a case of adding a module, connecting up the right pins and programming the dialler? Or can the TD8412 be used for this purpose?

Next, what should these parts cost for whatever I need?

And lastly, how much should an alarm company be charging for them to do it?

P.S Out of curiousity, do alarm companies get a cut for linking diallers to monitoring companies, either once off or per yearly subscription?

KoolKid

bazwaldo wrote: »

I looked again just there and followed wires from 8-11 (yellow and blue) and it led to under the mainboard. Under there was 2 blocks. One with a inputs A-D & 1-8 and another block marked TD8412.

On terminals ABCD is there 4 cores going to 12-15 on the main board and then another cable wired into 4 terminals plugged onto .?

bazwaldo

koolkid wrote: »

On terminals ABCD is there 4 cores going to 12-15 on the main board and then another cable wired into 4 terminals plugged onto .?

Nope, only power into A and B. And the blue and yellow from the mainboard are going into 1 and 3.

Going by the manual the cables to the right on the big block are the phoneline in and out.

KoolKid

You would need to reconfigure the keypad wiring to access the digi menu.
You need to disconnect 12-15 from the panel and wire into ABCD on the plug on terminals. Then wire the main ABCD into 12-15 on the panel.
12 A
13 B
14 C
15 D

07812 should then get you into the digital menu.

bazwaldo

koolkid wrote: »

You would need to reconfigure the keypad wiring to access the digi menu.
You need to disconnect 12-15 from the panel and wire into ABCD on the plug on terminals. Then wire the main ABCD into 12-15 on the panel.
12 A
13 B
14 C
15 D

07812 should then get you into the digital menu.

Is panel and main the same thing? Is plug on terminals the block behind the mainboard?

Would I need the service code to attempt the above? Will this give me the extra menu without losing anything else?

KoolKid

Panel and main the same thing.
Plug on terminal is the one on top of ABCD on the digi.
07812 will access the digi menu only. It will not give you access to alarm engineer menu.

Jnealon

It's hard to tell from the picture but it looks like your battery is starting to bulge.
Chances are it will leak soon so you should replace it

bazwaldo

Jnealon wrote: »

It's hard to tell from the picture but it looks like your battery is starting to bulge.
Chances are it will leak soon so you should replace it

I'll take a closer look when at home. Thanks for the tip.

bazwaldo

On a slightly seperate note, with the current setup the phone line needs to be analogue meaning I always needed to keep my eircom line rather than switch to UPC or Blueface or whatever.

With a voice dialer, would it work if I switched away from analogue eircom?

KoolKid

Voice dialler will make a call from any line where you can connect a normal home phone and make a voice call. UPC works fine with voice diallers.

bazwaldo

The more I read and think about it, the more unsure I am on what I should do.

As far as I know, my alarm met the standards when installed in 1999. The latest EN 50131 it does not as the alarm is not serviced yearly and is not a verified system. I got a letter a couple of years ago saying that I could have one garda callout and after that I would be cutoff, unless my alarm became verified. And looking at other threads I see that a yearly maintenance is required too.

I do believe I get some Home insurance discount for having my monitored alarm conforming to BS something or other and the alarm does meet that standard as far as I know. If I remove the company monitoring I save ~200 a year and maybe more if I get rid of my eircom line. But I lose out on my home insurance discount and possibly that extra peace of mind than the guards could be called out if required. Maybe I should verify my arrangement with my monitoring company about the verified alarm thing and Garda callout limits.

And the alarm is 11 years old. Is modifying it really the best option or upgrading it completely better?

Options
1) Change to voice dialer and remove monitoring costs
2) Get alarm upgraded to be verified and keep monitoring and have it maintained yearly. No idea on price of this. Currently 6 zones (front door, back door, downstairs windows, upstairs windows, PIR, panic button). Thats 8 windows and 2 velux's.
3) Price monitoring companys to find a cheaper one which sounds like I would need the alarm co to change numbers unless I get the code from them.

Any thoughts appreciated.

KoolKid

bazwaldo wrote: »

As far as I know, my alarm met the standards when installed in 1999. The latest EN 50131 it does not as the alarm is not serviced yearly and is not a verified system.

Alarm verification monitoring is not a requirement of EN50131.

bazwaldo wrote: »

I do believe I get some Home insurance discount for having my monitored alarm conforming to BS something or other and the alarm does meet that standard as far as I know. If I remove the company monitoring I save ~200 a year and maybe more if I get rid of my eircom line. But I lose out on my home insurance discount and possibly that extra peace of mind than the guards could be called out if required. Maybe I should verify my arrangement with my monitoring company about the verified alarm thing and Garda callout limits.

What you need to do is weigh up what your saving against what you are losing.
How much will your insurance increase if you change your policy to an unmonitored alarm which is not upto EN50131?
Take that away from the ammount you are saving every year?
Now what ever the balance is is it worth the peace of mind for having Garda response etc. ?
My personal opinion on monitoring with Garda response is this.
If you pay €200-€300 for this for the next 10 years & you never need the Guards, is this money wasted?
What if in year 11 you pay a further €300 & one panic alarm event saves you, your family & your home ? Has the €3300 been money well spent?

PS Shop around you will get a good deal on Service maintenance & monitoring packages.
A word of warning always look into what a service contract entails.
Some companys will try restrict you to 2 calls. I have even seen company's trying to say you are only entitled to your annual service & you must pay for all other calls.
A good service maintenance & monitoring contract should cover all routine call outs & labour.

bazwaldo wrote: »

And the alarm is 11 years old. Is modifying it really the best option or upgrading it completely better?

Again if shopping around look at upgrading prices as well. Company's will be happy to return some of this cost with some free monitoring.

altor

bazwaldo wrote: »

The more I read and think about it, the more unsure I am on what I should do.

As far as I know, my alarm met the standards when installed in 1999. The latest EN 50131 it does not as the alarm is not serviced yearly and is not a verified system. I got a letter a couple of years ago saying that I could have one garda callout and after that I would be cutoff, unless my alarm became verified. And looking at other threads I see that a yearly maintenance is required too.

Your alarm does not give a verified signal to the monitoring station but you will only loose your monitoring if the alarm is giving off false alarms. You will then be told to upgrade the system to reinstate your monitoring.

bazwaldo wrote: »

I do believe I get some Home insurance discount for having my monitored alarm conforming to BS something or other and the alarm does meet that standard as far as I know. If I remove the company monitoring I save ~200 a year and maybe more if I get rid of my eircom line. But I lose out on my home insurance discount and possibly that extra peace of mind than the guards could be called out if required. Maybe I should verify my arrangement with my monitoring company about the verified alarm thing and Garda callout limits.

And the alarm is 11 years old. Is modifying it really the best option or upgrading it completely better?



Options
1) Change to voice dialer and remove monitoring costs
2) Get alarm upgraded to be verified and keep monitoring and have it maintained yearly. No idea on price of this. Currently 6 zones (front door, back door, downstairs windows, upstairs windows, PIR, panic button). Thats 8 windows and 2 velux's.
3) Price monitoring companys to find a cheaper one which sounds like I would need the alarm co to change numbers unless I get the code from them.

Any thoughts appreciated.

It is really up to you to make those decisions. If you shop around you will get a general idea of prices of cheaper monitoring plus if you need an upgrade you will also get general prices for this. Most alarm systems installed 11 years ago can be brought up to todays standards with just a panel change. Getting the alarm monitored is good if you need the services it provides and so is self monitoring if you dont want the added expense.

Jnealon

300 per year is at the top end of the scale. For this I would expect a fully comp contract for this ie parts and labour.
If your alarm needs more than one or two calls per year then something is not right and I would be asking the alarm company some serious questions.

Anyway shop around as there are some very good deale to be had

KoolKid

You are not that familiar with the market if you are saying €300 is at the top end. I have come across customers paying some Central Stations upto €400 just for domestic monitoring and a further €200 for service and maintenance. Eircom and some others would not be far behind. They would also limit the number of calls. A service contract should cover you for the year not just a single call. Regardless of how you look at it. It is not fair to charge the customer an annual fee and then say if you have another fault you must pay. To suggest more than 2 calls and you should question the company is a bit unfair also. There are many reasons why a device could develop a fault within a few months of a service. This is not the customers fault. Why should they be penalized?
It would not be the companies fault either. The fairest option here is to cover all call outs. If the customer is at fault ie. Someone hit a keypad with a hammer or door sensor got broken moving some furniture, then charge the customer. If the company is at fault ie. They didn't repair the fault last time they they lose out because they have to cover the call out.

bazwaldo

It seems I'm being ripped off! My years monitoring with Bell cost €243. And thats just monitoring with no maintanance or free callouts. I think the year is up in a few months so I have till then to either switch to a different monitoring company or get a voice dialler installed. I always shop around for best prices but for some reason this has slipped through the net for years. No more!

KoolKid

That's Bell all over. Way too dear dear for just monitoring.
Like I said shop around and insist on an all in package covering all calls.
If you
need any help with it give us a shout.

Jnealon

Insist on whats best for you and not what sombody else thinks is best for you.
If you need any help give us a shout

KoolKid

Shopping around is generally the way for any customer to find whats best for them. The point I am trying to make here is not to be conned into paying extra charges.
Eircom is the classic example . Pay for an annual service contract & then they figure out a way to make you pay for callouts as well.

Generally get the best price with the best service & make sure you get in writing exactly whats covered.

Like I said in an earlier post if you are paying for an annual contract you should never have to pay for a call out unless the the call is of your own making. (ie you broke something or you require something moved due to renovations etc.) Routine maintenance & fault finding callout & labour should be covered otherwise.
Ofcourse if the customer feels that a maintenance contact that does not cover that is better for them then thats thier choice. What I am emphasising is to know what you are getting & there are no suprises down the line. On older systems in particular you are more likely to require additional calls in a year. No matter how good a service is done things go wrong from time to time.

altor

bazwaldo wrote: »

It seems I'm being ripped off! My years monitoring with Bell cost €243. And thats just monitoring with no maintanance or free callouts. I think the year is up in a few months so I have till then to either switch to a different monitoring company or get a voice dialler installed. I always shop around for best prices but for some reason this has slipped through the net for years. No more!

Wow, that is some price just for the monitoring. As the lads have said shopping around is the only option here. You will get yourself alot better deals covering both the monitoring plus maintenance of your alarm.

bazwaldo

Bell came down to €180 which I went for after discussing with the other half. They've been reliable so can't complain about there service. Fair enough cheaper monitoring seems to be on offer elsewhere but for the sake of a few quid, we decided sticking with them for another year will suffice. We'll look at the options again next year.

To get the voice dialer would have cost around €75 + installation according to the guy who installed my alarm. Defo an option for the future.

He did say though that it would not work with a UPC phone line. Is he right in this? I asked on this thread earlier and the response was that it would work. Is anyone sure either way? I think that would be the deciding factor nearly as if I got rid of my landline and moved to UPC the saving with that and then including the monitoring saving would be a decent enough. ~€350 a year.

One last thing, JNealon was spot on. My alarm battery went "low" a few days ago. He noticed from the picture it was "bulging". I never got a around to checking but the light is on the key panel and warning message displayed. I'll install that myself as it should be handy.

altor

It is always good to be able to get cheaper prices like you did. Big change from €243. UPC have told me connecting the alarm to the unit would work but not reliably. I would also say that installing a power supply back up on the modem is a must as no electricity means no monitoring.

bazwaldo

altor wrote: »

I would also say that installing a power supply back up on the modem is a must as no electricity means no monitoring.

Also an issue if my UPC connection goes down or is "snipped". Its not often but one time it went for 3 days. Not good as monitoring (albeit self monitoring) wouldn't work then.

Unlike my landline is under ground so can't be tampered with and is not reliant on my house power supply.

altor

Your not the only one who has issues with UPC. They told me that them selfs when I rang to ask about alarm monitoring over UPC. At lease technical support where honest enough to tell me of the downside to it.

The phone line is your safest option if it is under ground.

KoolKid

bazwaldo wrote: »

Unlike my landline is under ground so can't be tampered with and is not reliant on my house power supply.

While a landline is safer its not entirly underground.
There is,more than likely, a service point (jubction box )outside.
If so , its best to secure this in some way.

bazwaldo

Definitely not on the outside of the house. Maybe up a telegraph pole? As far as I know the hub for the set of houses on my road is in someones back garden. Guessing a bit on exact etup though.

KoolKid

If its on a telegraph pole it not underground then?
Is this a new build (15yrs or less?)
Any site I was ever on all services came to a point outside first.
Have you a services box for Electric & cable?

bazwaldo

House is 40 years old. Theres an ESB meter box inside the house and I don't recall seeing anything other than that in it. Theres defo no phone junction boxes outside. I was just guessing about the telegraph pole.