Simple question regarding the end of Terminator 2 *Spoilers*

MrStuffins

Ok, the Terminator movies are full of "Chicken and Egg" moments. John Connor sent his own father back through time.....

The technology Skynet was built on came from their own technology in the future.......

But here is my question!

John Conner is only concieved because Kyle Reese was sent through time to protect his mother.
At the end of T2, the technology leading to the war was destroyed, meaning that war was averted.
So, if there was no war............ how does John Conner still exist at the end of the movie?

is it simply because he will be the last John Conner because all other timelines have now been changed?

There is probably a simple answer but this question has always baffled me!

PirateShampoo

Not adverted, delayed.

MrStuffins

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Not adverted, delayed.

Wait....... forgetting the liberties that were taken with the franchise in T3 and TS, as far as T2 was concerned the war was averted, no?

PirateShampoo

Well as fas as John Conner was concerned it was, but like you said for it to adverted then he wouldn't exists.

MrStuffins

PirateShampoo wrote: »

Well as fas as John Conner was concerned it was, but like you said for it to adverted then he wouldn't exists.

Exactly.... this is what always bugged me.

If the war was averted, as we were led to believe, how is John Conner still alive?

Hmmmm..........

PirateShampoo

This is why i hate time travel stories, they have massive plot holes.

MrStuffins

PirateShampoo wrote: »

This is why i hate time travel stories, they have massive plot holes.

haha.

I'm sure there's something very simple i'm missing, i just don't know what it is!

Gulliver

Maybe the timelines split when the all the tech was destroyed and John Connor can now exist in the "averted war" future.

MrStuffins

Gulliver wrote: »

Maybe the timelines split when the all the tech was destroyed and John Connor can now exist in the "averted war" future.

maybe this is it. maybe the "current" timeline is uneffected and this will just be the last incarnation of John Connor?

Duggy747

Terminator 3's only saving grace was the ending where the T-800 wasn't trying to stop the war starting but to keep John safe when it did start,

According to James Cameron, the Terminator story ended in T2 with the war having been prevented. In T3 it showed us that the war was only delayed.

MrStuffins

Duggy747 wrote: »

Terminator 3's only saving grace was the ending where the T-800 wasn't trying to stop the war starting but to keep John safe when it did start,

According to James Cameron, the Terminator story ended in T2 with the war having been prevented. In T3 it showed us that the war was only delayed.

Yup, so T2 never had T3 in mind.

Duggy747

MrStuffins wrote: »

Yup, so T2 never had T3 in mind.

Technically, it did.

Cameron shot this ending but Fox wanted a more ambiguous ending for possible sequels, which is the one we got:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=780llTKt3uM

Anakin.S

I liked the idea that by forcing Kyle Reese to go back in time to protect Sarah Connor Skynet were the instrumenting the source of their own destruction by facilitating the creation of John Connor.

Sad Professor

The time travel is very inconsistent in the films, even in Cameron's two entries, so it's best not to think about it too much.

The first Terminator film is built on the idea of a causal loop, which bascially means there is only one timeline - which can't be changed - and cause and effect are in a loop. So there is no "original" timeline in which the T-800 wasn't sent back through time. It always went back, as did Kyle Reese. To borrow a phrase from Lost, "whatever happened, happened".

I don't think it was fully preserved in the final cut, but in the script for the first Terminator the ending was meant to be a twist revealing that the events of the film were the cause of the future, meaning that time can't be changed. A lot of people have trouble understanding this though (ditto 12 Monkeys) and I've read some ridiculous attempts by people to explain it using multiple timelines.

In the second film, however, Cameron kinda threw this out the window. In T2's script it is possible to change the past which totally contradicts the first film. But as said, in post-production he cut the final scene in favour of something more ambiguous. Maybe this was done at the behest of the studio, but I was always under the impression that Cameron just didn't like the scene - and the old age makeup was crap.

The subsequent films are garbage and not worthy of much thought imo.

jaykhunter

i think that was a major point/discrepancy between T2 and T3; T2 is all about making your own fate, the future is unwritten, while T3 is based on pre-determinism (Judgment Day will happen eventually)

MrStuffins you're definitely right about there not being an "initial timeline" that forced Reese to go back into the past; it's a big time paradox deeley.

There's a bit in the Sarah Connor Chronicles i'd like to mention;

at the end of S2, John and Cameron go into the future, bump into the human resistance, he explains that he's John Connor, and they reply 'Who?'? :eek::eek::eek::pac::pac: AMAZING

Gulliver wrote: »

Maybe the timelines split when the all the tech was destroyed and John Connor can now exist in the "averted war" future.

Brilliant. I love it. Makes great sense.

Something that also is worth pointing out is that with that piece of the original terminator, Dyson said it gave him ideas (which lead to the creation of Skynet) that he/they never would've thought of; so when they destroyed all the info, they never would've gotten Skynet up......

......that said, they didn't kill his colleagues, who i'd imagine might continue said research and be able to come to the same conclusions Dyson did (and create Skynet), it'd just take them much longer (and in the case of T3, about 3 years longer).

Also, (I'm sure it doesn't need pointing out but...) at the end of T2, arnie's arm was left in the factory, which could lead another scientist down the road that Dyson went down (and create Skynet)

Roar

jaykhunter wrote: »

ast; it's a big time paradox deeley.

There's a bit in the Sarah Connor Chronicles i'd like to mention;

at the end of S2, John and Cameron go into the future, bump into the human resistance, he explains that he's John Connor, and they reply 'Who?'? :eek::eek::eek::pac::pac: AMAZING

that was a fantastic moment. Great series too, I really enjoyed it.