Sort of a safety question

k99_64

Ive now been playing airsoft for a while, and wondering if someone could answer this question.

How powerful does a aeg have to be for a bb to break the skin?

Im asking cause ive been hit with tm shotguns at point blank with little more than a red mark, and KA aegs have made me bleed at range.

Its just something that i wanted to find out.

Silent Death

Depends, i have got blood out of one joule AEG's. Its down to angle and placement, face seems to get cut more often as it is uncovered.

Also if its glancing or a direct hit has a lot to do with it, tight skin is more likely to split, more so if it is close to the bone like the face where the impact cant be absorb as easily ( similar to bullet puncturing a solid object and not the thin Kevlar which flexes with the hit )

Hope it helps.

swiftblade

Depends on the person too. Im pretty skinny so I notice hits more often. The hands always draws blood when im hit.

Gatling

OP are you asking what fps to break the skin ie, a welt and (possible) small amount of blood

or actual penetration of the skin by a bb



(TM shottys and aegs mostly fire at 270-280fps )

(Aegs other than TM shoot around 300+fps )

Scody94

i once caught a bb on my finger nail cracked the nail down the middle and the nail cut in to the skin... but any gun that hits me i always come out in red bumbs

munster_mafia

Read a report, probably on here from british government, from what i remember it need to be 1.3J to consistantly break skin, but from what distance i dont know, id assume point blank.

fayer

2 reports on the subject both from the uk government, opinion ranges from 1.3 ( eye) to 2.3 joule. Info is on the IAA site.

McGilla

As said above, it depends completely on each shot!
- Range
- Wind
- If target is moving away from shooter or towards
- Where the BB strikes
- Angle of strike

I was skirmishing yesterday, and I drew blood on a guy who charged a house I was defending, i hit him on the fore arm from about 5-7 meters away with a pistol that is firing well below 1 Joule!

I apologized when he showed me, but he wasn't actually complaining - just chatting!

I think it happened as the skin was bare, the skin there is quite tight, he was running directly at me, which increase impact force too!

Spetzcong

Also depends on the person, some people have thicker/stronger skin than others. I've been standing beside someone when both of us got hosed by the same player. I had nothing but a few welts, he had a couple of bleeders.

The reports that were done by the british government will most likely have taken the lowest possible level of power that could potentially cause a penetrating wound to a normal healthy person, that's not to say that there aren't people out there who's skin is tough enough to withstand higher power bb hits.

In terms of the OPs question though, are you refering to bleeders, i.e. slightly broken skin or an actual penetrating wound? I would imagine that a penetrating wound involves not only the skin being broken, but the bb actually penetrating the flesh. If that is the case then the level of power required to cause broken skin is likely to be much lower than the 1.3 J figure that the Brits came up with.

k99_64

Well i have had welts and some bruising but then sometimes the skin has broken and blood flowed, just wondering on power levels for each.

TheDoc

Its all a bit random I'd say.

Had broken skin plenty of times in games with sub 1 joule guns and seen it on other folks too.

OzCam

Most of the bruising and occasional skin tears we get are caused by the backspin on the BB. The 3-4J figure from the NI Forensic Service refers to a simple penetration wound, and I guess you'd have to read the complete report to get their methodology and the detailed results.

Bear in mind that the skin on certain areas of the body (e.g. the neck) is much thinner and softer than on others. Also some people just bruise more easily. So there are really too many factors involved to give a definitive answer.

The good news is that at the 1J level, there's no risk of a significant injury. That's the main reason it was chosen, and not a higher limit.

MRTULES

total noob and have never played but i read that the reason for the 1J limt here was to do with a court case in the UK where it was decided that 1J was the amount of force needed to penetrate the eyeball which was deemed to be a "serious injury".

OzCam

Please check your facts before posting. 1.35J is the energy required to cause serious injury to the eye. That information is in hundreds of places on this board and elsewhere.

Since the OP's question has been answered in detail, I don't see this thread going anywhere except off the rails.

McGilla

OzCam wrote: »

Please check your facts before posting. 1.35J is the energy required to cause serious injury to the eye. That information is in hundreds of places on this board and elsewhere.

Since the OP's question has been answered in detail, I don't see this thread going anywhere except off the rails.

It's not necessary to make such condescending remarks!
(The guy even said I'm a noob!)

Maybe someone's information isn't as accurate as it could be, - but there is nothing sadder than a grown man, trying to give someone an online beat down, because they know more about a very irrelevant subject.

Your tone is a perfect example as to why people stay clear of the airsoft section of boards!

OzCam

McGilla wrote: »

Maybe someone's information isn't as accurate as it could be, - but there is nothing sadder than a grown man, trying to give someone an online beat down, because they know more about a very irrelevant subject.

I'm sorry, but sometimes it is necessary to correct wrong information. If I'm beating down anything it's the behaviour, not the poster. Posting incorrect figures as facts leads to that wrong information being requoted ad infinitum. It's a drawback of the internet, but we don't have to just lie back and do nothing about it.

The 1.35J figure is widely known, and has been on boards for years. Posting something that's wrong, and so easily checkable, just causes fear and confusion. And in this case, it's my job.

Beez

OzCam wrote: »

I'm sorry, but sometimes it is necessary to correct wrong information. If I'm beating down anything it's the behaviour, not the poster. Posting incorrect figures as facts leads to that wrong information being requoted ad infinitum. It's a drawback of the internet, but we don't have to just lie back and do nothing about it.

The 1.35J figure is widely known, and has been on boards for years. Posting something that's wrong, and so easily checkable, just causes fear and confusion. And in this case, it's my job.

I know wikipedia is not too be taken as gospel but

The one-joule limit most likely arose from UK case law where it was found that energies in excess of one joule were required to penetrate an eyeball (thus causing serious injury)

From reading this previously i thought that over 1 joule was the power to penetrate the eye. You need to chill out tbh.

OzCam

There are plenty of authoratative, well-researched, reviewed and citation-supported articles on wikipedia. The one on Laser Safety is a good example. I suggest that quoting the original Forensic Service figures is a bit more reliable than a "most likely" though.

Beez

He said he has not played before and is a noob, why jump down his throat. Not everyone is as obsessed with airsoft as some of us (including me) and go looking up info. You could of easily just corrected him in a polite manner.

fayer

OzCam is perfectly correct, people post stupid questions here over and over again without taking the time to do even the most basic of research or even a Google search.

McGilla

fayer wrote: »

OzCam is perfectly correct

Ooooooh - Why dont you marry him!:P
(sorry i couldn't resist)
I do agree with Oz's point, but not the way the point was made!

McGilla

fayer wrote: »

people post stupid questions here over and over again without taking the time to do even the most basic of research or even a Google search.

I’m pretty sure it’s not the same people asking the same questions!

If new people ask questions that have already been answered, that you deem stupid, let them!

I’m sick of this tribal geek attitude on boards, "this our forum - prove yourself in the art of geeky know it all online discussion" it’s actually pathetic!

There are allot of sound, genuinely intelligent posters here, but they are over shadowed by these turbo geek, keyboard warriors, who long for a women’s touch, but wouldn't know what to do if they found it!

Now for the impending "locked"

Witcher

McGilla wrote: »

I’m pretty sure it’s not the same people asking the same questions!

If new people ask questions that have already been answered, that you deem stupid, let them!

I’m sick of this tribal geek attitude on boards, "this our forum - prove yourself in the art of geeky know it all online discussion" it’s actually pathetic!

There are allot of sound, genuinely intelligent posters here, but they are over shadowed by these turbo geek, keyboard warriors, who long for a women’s touch, but wouldn't know what to do if they found it!

Now for the impending "locked"

Ozcam corrected false information in a post, stop blowing it out of proportion and acting like a child, who cares how he said it? He got the point across.

McGilla

Blay wrote: »

Ozcam corrected false information in a post, stop blowing it out of proportion and acting like a child, who cares how he said it? He got the point across.

...and you must be the mistress!!! - ouch

Witcher

McGilla wrote: »

...and you must be the mistress!!! - ouch

Yes, how mature:rolleyes:

McGilla

Thanks buddy!

k99_64

fayer wrote: »

2 reports on the subject both from the uk government, opinion ranges from 1.3 ( eye) to 2.3 joule. Info is on the IAA site.

Thanks for answering the question way back there, I now have a answer and would like a mod to close this as this thread has now gotten silly.

andy_g

Locked at op's request and ban/s to follow. Mcgilla banned for childish behaviour and breach of the piece.