motorhome owners critisised by Caravan Park Owners.

dungarvanlass

I recently saw an article in the Irish Examiner, where motorhome owners were critisised by Caravan Park Owners. Perhaps Caravan Park Owners have a right to critisise. Recently at Paudie O Shea's pub in Ventry there were a gathering of motorhomes from the Phoenix Club. Has Mr. Paudie O Shea planning permission for motorhomes to overnight in his field. In the nearby town of Dingle theCaravan Park had plenty of spaces.Parks rely on motorhome owners to visit. They have to pay local councils rates on their propertys. The spokesman Mr Kieran O'Donovan stated that site owners were charging too much for what they had to offer. I would like to ask what security the Phoenix had for that weekend. Had they Insurance to cover the members of this club and had they member to member cover. I have seen many a thread on Kilmore Quay where campers had windows broken, or were awoken during the night by revellers.
Surely a motorhome with a value of 30,00 to 80,000 euro would be more interested in the safety of their occupants than the few euro they would have to pay for a Safe Night.
Are these Safe Nights Ireland secure at night. Have 24 hour security like a Caravan Park. Perhaps the Phoenix Club, from the article in the Irish Examiner,do not support Caravan Park Owners, who rely on us Motorhome Owners to keep their Caravan Parks open. Yet they say that they distribute Caravan & Camping Site Guides to their members. But on the next paragraph they are giving out about the cost of staying a night on a site. There are many sites in Ireland who stay open the whole year, and should a club wish visit a site during the winter months, most site owners are willing to accommodate them. It would appear that Mr O Donovan
is relatively new to motorcaravanning and wishes to be part of a group who would like to stay on the side of the road. There is an Aires de Service at Askeaton in County Limerick and is normally invaded by the travelling community. Aires in Ireland would end up as Halting Sites. Do we as owners of motorhomes want this?
Your comments would be welcome.

stapeler

I stay and return to Caravan parks that provide a good service and good facilities at a reasonable price, where the owners have an interest in what they are doing and not trying to rip people off.
Unfortunately, many sites in this country do not offer good facilities or value for money.
Last weekend I paid €30 per night in the south of the country for a site that had little to offer. It was a small site with toilets, showers at €2 and an outside sink with cold water only.
I think I'd prefer to give Paudie the €30, have a good night out and take my chances on security.

loobylou

I'm not altogether sure what the OP is complaining about.
In what way did the motorhomers behave badly? Is it solely because they did not stay in a campsite? Has the OP a gripe with Safe Nights Ireland whom he references and as far as I'm aware, Paudie O Sheas pub is a member of?
I suspect that perhaps she is a campsite owner. I rarely use campsites at home in Ireland anymore. They simply charge too much for too little. I will book into one approx every three days to recharge batteries and dump waste but thats all.
Compared to the continent they offer very little. I won't name the establishment but only last week I overnighted in one in Galway that had a dead rat at the entrance to the toilet block. For this I had to pay €22 plus extra for a shower.

peasant

dungarvanlass wrote: »

Do we as owners of motorhomes want this?

Who is this "we"?

By my reckoning you're an owner of a caravan park

Ohh ..and I've changed your thread title as it had nothing to do with your post

and another note with my moderator hat on ...generally speaking, a rant as a first post isn't regarded as a good introduction to a forum

allthatGlitters

I too rarely stay in Irish campsites. They charge too much for too little. Most of our trips in Ireland are only for 2 or 3 nights so we don't have much need to visit them.
However, there are one of two within 2 hours of my home that we return to time and time again, because they are good (ish) value and are striving to improve all the time. These campsites I will support.

650Ginge

Yes I would say that the OP has some connection with caravan parks. I agree with most of the views expressed here that camping sites in Ireland are in the main pretty poor. I have camped, tent and now a camper for 20 years, I have come across a few good ones but by and large I feel hard done by handing over any money at all for them.

€30 seems to be the going rate for parking on a site, I can't get my head around that, I bring the bed, I wash the bed after me, I shower in the van, and if I do hook up it is hardly drawing any electric as I leave the tv, toaster and microwave at home where they belong. Tollymore in NI charges £12 a night, you are right on the doorstep of some fantastic scenery, and a parkland that cost £4 to get into anyway, it is always busy even at christmas. Castlewellan nearby same thing. But I can't think of a single place I would go back to here in the south, not at €30 plus showers a night, it is just silly.

Look at the set up on the continent, yes the aires are great if you have a camper but the campsites just do so much more, some campsite owners here are even too lazy to cut the grass and nevermind lifting the cutting after they let it get a foot tall then hacked it to bits, no unless I get a recommendation for a campsite and they are looking for no more than €20 I would rather stay away.

Oh dear sorry that was a rant in the end!:(

shagman

Yes we are terrible people for not giving you our money.To me one of the main points of buying a motorhome is that you're NOT restricted to staying in campsites.

Saruman

I am just back from my first weekend away in my camper. Friday I parked on the side of the road in Salthill. No issues, though I did have a warning notice on my wiper that the road I was on was not to be used by motorhomes, as did the approx 10 or so others along the promenade. It was grand though as it had a map and had the streets where I can't park marked in red meaning as far as Galway council are concerned, anywhere else is fair game

The next day we drove to Clifden and this time stayed at a campsite to avail of electricity, showers etc. It was a nice campsite with good facilities and I paid €25.

Next weekend I am going to Dungarvan (might see you down there dungarvanlass ). I plan on staying 2 nights at Caseys. There will be other campers using tents so that is why I am staying on the campsite both nights.

norma.h

Hi there,
Am new here and just wanted to say we've just had 7 great weeks in Cork, Kerry and Clare mostly wildcamping and loved every minute. If we didn't wildcamp we wouldn't be able to come, so campsites would not profit from us anyway. I agree that most don't offer value for money and standards vary hugely.
I am very puzzled by Dungarvanlass' mention of a caravan park at Dingle. We've camped in that area for several years and the only campsite (apart from the tiny Rainbow Hostel) was at Ballintaggart just out of town which closed at least 2 years ago. Could anyone tell me where it is?

Saruman

I just did a google and came across two articles that the OP may be referring to.

I agree something should be done about dumping waste. I imagine this a very small minority of people though.

Same here but I find it shocking that Elaine Sexton of Sextons’ Caravan and Camping says that she is denying access to people she suspects are wild campers? She is turning away paying customers who want to use her facilities as they are intended just because they choose not to use other camping facilities every night? Madness....

I was wild camping in Salthill and spend a load of money in Salthill on drinks, lunch and stocking up with beer etc.

Likewise I stayed at a campsite in Clifden as I mentioned earlier and again I spent money on dinner and drinks at a bar and restaurant and also supplies at the local supervalu.

No matter if I wild camp or camp at a campsite I bring the same level of income to the community.

When I eventually start cooking in the camper I will still be buying supplies locally and spending money at certain tourist sites.

I think councils should allow spaces for campers and not discourage it because we do bring money to the local economy.
Camper unfriendly towns will see me bypass said town and move on to somewhere more suited.

stapeler

Saruman wrote: »

I just did a google and came across two articles that the OP may be referring to.

I agree something should be done about dumping waste. I imagine this a very small minority of people though.

Same here but I find it shocking that Elaine Sexton of Sextons’ Caravan and Camping says that she is denying access to people she suspects are wild campers? She is turning away paying customers who want to use her facilities as they are intended just because they choose not to use other camping facilities every night? Madness....

I was wild camping in Salthill and spend a load of money in Salthill on drinks, lunch and stocking up with beer etc.

Likewise I stayed at a campsite in Clifden as I mentioned earlier and again I spent money on dinner and drinks at a bar and restaurant and also supplies at the local supervalu.

No matter if I wild camp or camp at a campsite I bring the same level of income to the community.

When I eventually start cooking in the camper I will still be buying supplies locally and spending money at certain tourist sites.

I think councils should allow spaces for campers and not discourage it because we do bring money to the local economy.
Camper unfriendly towns will see me bypass said town and move on to somewhere more suited.

We actually stayed in Sexton for a night last week. Nice site, friendly with all the basics. I didn't empty my waste water there but did avail of their free showers. My only gripe is it's 4-5Km distance from the pub to sample the night life.
We had hoped to stay in Courtmacsherry but the abundant No Camping or Overnight parking signs left us no choice.
While in Courtmacsherry we had dinner costing €80 in The Lifeboat Bar, My wife spent €30 on gifts in the craft shop there(Golden Pheasant), we had a coffee outside Rita's? grocery shop where we also purchased all our lunch making goods totalling €20. A fill of diesel in Bandon also for €70.

Without rambling on too much.
While in the Lifeboat bar there was a newspaper article pinned to the door, it was about a beached whale in the area last year. The article went on to say, "The Kilbrittain contention is that Courtmacsherry already has enough attractions and, in these recessionary time, their poor village needs to attract all the tourism it can"

Read more: http://www.examiner.ie/story/ireland/idcwcwgbkf/rss2/#ixzz0whG1yqS3

I wish these councils would wake up and realize that if they provide a nice place to stop for the night it might be enough to get some visitors spending in the locality.

Rant over...

SARZY

In this country, it seems there are certain businesses who dont realise we are in the middle of a meltdown financially.

Typical of this head in the sand attitude are publicans, medical profession, legal profession, prob hairdressers and others but Definitely Campsite owners are in there.

Now those people can complain bitterly about how bad things are, and wild camping being a disgrace etc, but Campsite owners should get a grip and realise they are in a business and need to Attract people to their facility and believe me Price is a large part of it.

So instead of having a go at your customers and potential customers come on to the boards and tell us about your new reduced prices.

peasant

Saruman wrote: »

I find it shocking that Elaine Sexton of Sextons’ Caravan and Camping says that she is denying access to people she suspects are wild campers? She is turning away paying customers who want to use her facilities as they are intended just because they choose not to use other camping facilities every night? Madness....

Indeed ...campsite owners could open an extra line of revenue if they allowed motorhomes in for a simple dump and refill.

I'd certainly pay a tenner for emptying my grey and black waste water tanks, putting the rubbish in the bin and fill up with fresh water ...and then drive on to spend the night where nobody bothers me and nobody can take offence with our three barking dogs either

The fact that you pretty much have to pay (and stay) for a full night if all you really want is to empty your waste is what might turn a few people (pigs that they are!) towards leaving rubbish and sewage in the countryside

garminguy

having just returned from a campervan holiday all over different parts of france, i can honestly say that the value for money is over there.average price of campsites was 25 euro and every site had a swimming pool, laundry and kitchens, most had restaurant/cafe or bar and all had regularily cleaned showers and toilets.

its just the usual rip off in ireland from my experience.

joed571

I stayed at Paudie O Sheas last night after spending the day in dingle, had a nice meal and a few beers, very nice safe place. Stayed in a killarney campsite the night befofe at a cost of 37 euro which i thought very expensive. In a far nicer campsite in tralee now for only 30 euro. Will be wild camping in salthill tomorrow always spend money in every town i stay... Totally agree that campsites ask too much for what they offer.

650Ginge

joed571 wrote: »

I stayed at Paudie O Sheas last night after spending the day in dingle, had a nice meal and a few beers, very nice safe place. Stayed in a killarney campsite the night befofe at a cost of 37 euro which i thought very expensive. In a far nicer campsite in tralee now for only 30 euro. Will be wild camping in salthill tomorrow always spend money in every town i stay... Totally agree that campsites ask too much for what they offer.

€37 good lord I can't see were there is any value in that. I just refuse to pay that.

sunchaser

joed571 wrote: »

I stayed at Paudie O Sheas last night after spending the day in dingle, had a nice meal and a few beers, very nice safe place. Stayed in a killarney campsite the night befofe at a cost of 37 euro which i thought very expensive. In a far nicer campsite in tralee now for only 30 euro. Will be wild camping in salthill tomorrow always spend money in every town i stay... Totally agree that campsites ask too much for what they offer.

Joed,
perhaps you could let us know how many people were in your camper the night you stayed in Killarney.

joed571

sunchaser wrote: »

Joed,
perhaps you could let us know how many people were in your camper the night you stayed in Killarney.

we stayed there on friday night, 2 adults 2 children

munsterabu

Agree with a lot of what's being said , the extra cash that was in our pockets a few years ago is now a lot less . was shocked that site owners did,nt decrease their prices and some actually increased theirs.
we now travel north and north west not only for value in camp sites but also food and drink at reasonable prices and a lot less congested at beauty spots and not as much traffic on the roads. stayed in a site near Dungarvan 2 years ago kids wanted to spend some time on the adjacent beach before we left, so we parked in the car park after leaving the camp site which cost us 42 euro in total after using facilities etc. for 2 adults 1 3yr old and 1 16 month old !! after 1.5 hours we were told that we cannot park here ? eventhough the motorhome was conciously and perfectly parked in 1 parking spot! it was a hotel car park that was 1/3 full same crowd owns the camp site!! we have not returned for another stay and no plans to do it in the future.. I hope the Author of this thread finally gets a piece of my mind...

Saruman

I just noticed from the OP something that struck me as odd....

Have 24 hour security like a Caravan Park

What campsite in this country has any actual security let alone 24 hour? By security does she mean the person who mans the check in desk?

The site in Question Páudi Ó Sé's is a member of Safe Nights Ireland. A stipulation for being a member is that the site has insurance and 24 hour security as listed on their site.

I would happily pay €10 to stay there, in fact I probably will. I had not heard of that site before so thanks OP for letting me know

spaceHopper

If campsite owners did some work, kept their showers and toilets clean.

Cut their prices to no more than 10 for a car/tent to 15 for car + tent + extrea people.
To 15 for a camper to maybe 20 for a larger motor home. Offered drive in rubish and water dump / refill for a fiver. Then you'd see more european motor homes coming here. We'd all take advantage fo the water dump and stay over more. They could literally tripple the number of people using them by taking a little less of them. If you half your price but tripple your customers you end up with 50% more trun over

So what if they free camp for a few nights then come in to charge and clean up if I'm not littering then it's none of thier buisness - their buisness is attracting me to say with them not pissing me off.

If you're a strugling camp site owner then approch a few campers free caming and ask them nicely what it would take to get them to come in and say with them - then do it and see what happens.

By the time somebody rents a camper, buys their food, eats out every second night and pays for a campsite they'd have flown to the south of france, rented a car and an apartment in Anaglet. Eat in or out for less and eat better. And the sun would be shining all of the time. Camp sites have a boom on their door step but are pricing them selves out of buisness

as for the OP

It would appear that Mr ....... is relatively new to motorcaravanning and wishes to be part of a group who would like to stay on the side of the road.

Cop the phuck on

joed571

I am not sure Páudi Ó Sé is with safe nights anymore as one of the staff told us so and Páudi himself told us we could stay in the field and did not charge us anything.

Saruman

Ah, He is still listed.

Well free camping is even better. I can free camp there and spend money in his pub.
Makes sound business sense to be honest.

SARZY

Campsites all over Europe take part at 11, 13, and 15 euro a night out of peak holiday season.
The campsite owners who take part in this all over Europe can see the financial sense of having a price to ATTRACT customers to their site when its not that busy. Thats not rocket science. But it is business.
Are campsites in Ireland in business or what are they in.

irishllanaber

This should be the message to all campsite owners. Stop ignoring the "ELEPHANT'S IN THE ROOM".Its Cost and its Quality... Stop trying to see how little you can give us for our euro and start trying to see how much you can give us for our euro... And when you achieve that you will have us exactly where you want us... On Your Campsites

Bessa

There is a huge opportunity in this country either for the local councils, or Failte ireland to set up Aires here like they have in France. Emptying , water waste, and fresh water can be provided by using a token. Your overnight pay and display ticket can also be dispensed by a machine. We have direct Ferries to and from France, and we should have far more Motorhomes visiting this country as a result. But alas we have not got the facilities for this. Pity as the whole country would benefit from all the extra tourists we could have.

T650

Have just returned, together with wife and two children, from three weeks in Germany and France in our motorhome. A stand out example of a small town making money from passing tent, caravan, and camper users was the small town of St Pourcain sur Sioule. We needed a stop somewhere midway between Freiburg in Germany and Bordeaux in France. Found the town's municipal campsite on the web. Rang and reserved ( not easily done with sites here in ireland ). Arrived at the site to find that the local town council had given over two thirds of their town park to a campsite that is very near the river itself and is owned and maintained by the council. The site has 58 assorted pitches and 1 sanitary block which was adequate and spotlessly clean. It is immaculately kept and when we stayed it was all but full, with a number of us being passing traffic. The town has one butcher, baker, etc etc. The cost for a safe, secure site, with camper and two adults/2children ?? Including electric hook up and free hot water for washing up and showers ? Ah go on - guess ? The princely sum of €11.80. That is how this little town attracts passing traffic.

Old Timer

I refer to the article in the Irish Examiner. I would like to know if the spokesperson for the club is looking for "Aires de Service" like on the Continent for camper owners across Ireland.
http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/motorhome-owners-defend-against-littering-accusations-127697.html#ixzz0wrNBFLdW

*Kol*

Old Timer wrote: »

I refer to the article in the Irish Examiner. I would like to know if the spokesperson for the club is looking for "Aires de Service" like on the Continent for camper owners across Ireland.
http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/motorhome-owners-defend-against-littering-accusations-127697.html#ixzz0wrNBFLdW

From the article it would appear he is.

"Motorhome stopovers exist across Europe as a way of attracting tourism to places and I feel this is to be encouraged."

The club has written to all the town councils in the country looking for dedicated campervan overnight parking spaces due to sharp increases in "height barriers" across the countryside.

spaceHopper

Funny how the person who posted this has only ever been active once and has never loged in to check responses to their post

Betsy Og

lest we be accused of ignoring the other elephant in the room - how do you stop amenities being taken over as long term camps by travellers?

We must have the most closely guarded roadsides (boulders) and carparks (height restrictions) in the world. & unfortunately its not without good reason. Now ideally everyone would respect everyone elses property, but meanwhile back in the real world I think a system needs to be worked out to allow access only to "genuine" users.

In the UK they seem to have a special key system for disabled toilets nationwide, where you sign up to the scheme. Could you do the same for roadside stops? A version of SNI if you will. Would you get intimidation from people outside the barrier wanting to get inside the barrier?? Could you have a swipe card system with €500 deposit on it that gets cleared out if you leave a mess after you?

All tough questions, maybe no easy answers, but before we blame councils for their lack of focus on this issue I think we need to be realistic too and see the challenges they face.

spaceHopper

Betsy Og wrote: »

lest we be accused of ignoring the other elephant in the room - how do you stop amenities being taken over as long term camps by travellers?

The simple answer is you probably can't as there is no will to enforce the law at the moment.

But if campsite owners offered a simular servies to aris where we could empty tanks / toilets and fill up with fresh water for a small fee it would be a big help. If they also lowered thier prices and actually offered a good service, while we all continure to trun a blind eye to free camping between staying onver on a camp site then they would do a lot of buisness. More tourists would come to visit Ireland....

T650

spaceHopper wrote: »

The simple answer is you probably can't as there is no will to enforce the law at the moment.

But if campsite owners offered a simular servies to aris where we could empty tanks / toilets and fill up with fresh water for a small fee it would be a big help. If they also lowered thier prices and actually offered a good service, while we all continure to trun a blind eye to free camping between staying onver on a camp site then they would do a lot of buisness. More tourists would come to visit Ireland....

Put the Aire next door to the local Garda Barracks ? Or as near as possible ?

Crackerjack23

I don't have a campervan but just to say, we tented in a lovely campsite called the Apple Farm just outside cahir. It is very clean/reasonalbly priced at €6.50/person regardless of whether you have a tent or campervan. €4.50/child. Free extremely hot showers all day long.

esb hook up is only €2. You can buy fresh fruit and juices in their own shop and you can bring in your cooking facilities to their large barn to cook and there is a huge area to wash up etc, tables to sit and eat. They have also a good recycling system. plus a kids play ground. I have nothing to do with this campsite but believe credit should be given where due.

Old Timer

Much has been said on this thread, users have made many suggestions. I would like to add mine:-

In France there are in most small towns a Municipal Site with charges generally in the 10 euro price range, depending on the time of season. Why not get our County Councils to set up at least two Municipal Sites in each county. Not only would it solve our problem, but would create much needed employment and should be self financing if we all use these facilities. Now that testing is to be implemented for campers. (Perhaps those of you who are about to tax your camper have been advised by your local council that you need your DOE.) Perhaps some of the revenue generated by the councils can be given back to us as a municipal site.

Saruman

There is the waterways smart card.... you can use their toilet and shower facilities so it is something at least.

Tabnabs

Saruman wrote: »

There is the waterways smart card.... you can use their toilet and shower facilities so it is something at least.

It's a great example in theory and also a good example of why public bodies shouldn't be allowed to run remote facilities. More often than not the toilets are closed due to technical problems or vandalism. Their pump out facilities for waste tanks are either non existent or again, out of commission. Waterways Ireland are not a shining example in practice. Public run tourist facilities are not well run in Ireland IMHO. Either PPP or private enterprise where there is an incentive to succeed.

And to echo another poster. We just stayed at The Apple Farm in Tipp and had a lovely time. Laid back atmosphere, wonderful walking through the orchards in the sunshine and although basic, the facilities were not lacking.

*Kol*

spaceHopper wrote: »

But if campsite owners offered a simular servies to aris where we could empty tanks / toilets and fill up with fresh water for a small fee it would be a big help. If they also lowered thier prices and actually offered a good service, while we all continure to trun a blind eye to free camping between staying onver on a camp site then they would do a lot of buisness. More tourists would come to visit Ireland....

I have seen a lot of these water filling/emptying points in France at petrol stations. You need a token to fill water but generally you can empty your toilet cassette for free. It could work for campsites and petrol stations here?

Saruman

The Apple Farm sounds great. Going to give that a go some weekend.

Tabnabs

Saruman wrote: »

The Apple Farm sounds great. Going to give that a go some weekend.

Will post some photos when I find the camera cable

Bessa

Kol a lot of the rest areas on the toll roads in France also have Motorhome facilities for emptying etc. I wonder would they provide them here on our toll roads as a lot of the service areas are being built now.

650Ginge

Saruman wrote: »

The Apple Farm sounds great. Going to give that a go some weekend.

Disappointing that they dont allow dogs.

Bessa

The Mcc in Northern Ireland have an Aires open in the village of Broughshane in Antrim, and they bought the Sanistation in France and had it operational in a few hours. How about the clubs getting together here for a similar venture.

Saruman

650Ginge wrote: »

Disappointing that they dont allow dogs.

Only if you have a dog

650Ginge

Bessa wrote: »

The Mcc in Northern Ireland have an Aires open in the village of Broughshane in Antrim, and they bought the Sanistation in France and had it operational in a few hours. How about the clubs getting together here for a similar venture.

Used this one a couple of times. Really good facility and a nice pub called the Thatch in the village, nice stop if heading up south to the Antrim Coast.

650Ginge

Saruman wrote: »

Only if you have a dog

Oh very good :-)

allthatGlitters

Saruman wrote: »

Only if you have a dog

We were allowed to stay here with our dog. We just arrived on spec and person on reception just told us to be respectful with regard to dog, and there would be no problem.

I loved the campsite. I loved their ethos. The showers were old fashioned, but spotless, like going to stay in your aunties house. Recycling was very prominent with the usual bins for bottles cans etc but then also there was a magazine and book recycling shelf. Leave in your "read" magazine and take another.

We had a great walk through the orchards, spotted loads of rabbits, (ate a few berries - opps) and generally had a lovely experience.

*Kol*

Bessa wrote: »

Kol a lot of the rest areas on the toll roads in France also have Motorhome facilities for emptying etc. I wonder would they provide them here on our toll roads as a lot of the service areas are being built now.

It should be no problem to have them at rest areas if there are water/toilet facilities provided too. It would be very handy.

Donnchadh1

Old Timer wrote: »

In France there are in most small towns a Municipal Site with charges generally in the 10 euro price range, depending on the time of season. Why not get our County Councils to set up at least two Municipal Sites in each county. Not only would it solve our problem, but would create much needed employment and should be self financing if we all use these facilities.

Wexford town council have a site just across the bridge...far from the €10 price range but clean, secure, central and not bad value for this country.
http://www.camping-ireland.ie/caravan-parks/camping.php?id=129

Reading this its sounds like there the only way to get change is to be proactive is to a) petition the councils to create camper friendly bays and b) make our own camper friendly/value guide to campsites in ireland.....a bit of name and shame....maybe then you'll see value for money.....

Regards,

Donnchadh

dowtchaboy

Dyflin wrote: »

Will post some photos when I find the camera cable

Stayed overnight in an orchard in Somerset a few years back - signposted off the motorway - something ridiculous like £3 if no electricity needed. Showers were 50p I think but washing, water and unloading loo was free. Was a working farm so there was no reception or grocery store or anything (was close enough to a village anyway). Loaded up with fresh eggs, apples and cider before I left so she made another tenner or so from me - perfect!