The Psychological Aspect of 'Band Member Wanted' Adverts

Waking-Dreams

[Mods, feel free to merge this into the "find yourself a bandmate thread" if you wish]


[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Seems like the right place for this kind of discussion, and something that is long overdue.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Essentially, it's all a bit like responding to a personal ad, and hooking up for a blind date/job interview later, no?[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]But how do you find the right people to be in a band with? Are 'band member wanted' ads as reliable as we think they are?

Before I continue, I want to point out that, to me at least, there is a small difference in recruiting band members for a cover band as opposed to members for an originals band, where songwriting development and long-term goals are probably more likely in the case of the later.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]No doubt people have good and bad stories from their experiences of trying out potential members and auditioning themselves for other bands, so feel free to share and whatever you've learned. Could be a lot of fun.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I have my own tales, but I heard of one funny story, where a metal band had put the word out for a singer and some crack addict calling himself 'ION' who carved shapes into his chest with a knife turned up for the audition; he headbutted the microphone for the most part throughout the ordeal.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I'll start off by saying that the composition of many band member wanted ads is not very helpful. Many of them sound a tad boring (maybe generic is the right word here), or are veiled in deliberate vagueness and even some half-truths (“label/management/publisher interest, gigs waiting...”). Some particular ads are almost written in their own unique language, peppered with exclamation marks and pushy rhetoric such as, “must be committed! must have ambition! no time-wasters!”[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]But do these slogans actually do anything? For instance, would a time-waster really look at such an ad and say, “Oh well, they say they're not looking for time-wasters, guess that rules me out”? Seriously? What do you really gain by saying “no time-wasters!” anyway? Do time-wasters actually admit they waste other people's time?

I know why people put these kind of phrases in their ads; 1) because lots of other people do it, so it's social proof and 2) in the hope that it will cut down on the number of nuisance replies they get, but I would love to see some hard evidence which supports such a notion. Think of employers who state, “must be a team player, must have drive and ambition, serious replies only” in their ads. Yet, most of us know from experience in the workforce that these are vacuous statements intended to give off a professional stance (and the job itself usually isn't as prestigious as the HR dept. makes it out to be), while all kinds of unqualified people still apply regardless. In their minds, they have all of the above. However, when specifics are listed, for example, “must have a 3rd level degree”, it can cut through the clutter much better.

Thinking about job interviews for a moment, which are still seen as the best method of assessing a potential employee's ability, they are not as accurate as people think. Most people think that they are pretty good judges of one's ability, motivation, interpersonal skills and overall potential. However, research has shown that unstructured job interviews have a validity of roughly 20%, meaning that flipping a coin would actually be more likely to predict who will succeed in the workplace. Asking questions and getting prepackaged answers in return is all too common, and tells you nothing about what someone will actually be like on the job, only that they can sell themselves very well and can give well-rehearsed and perfected answers.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]But back to band member wanted ads.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]The list of musical influences is often put in there, sometimes with or without any original music. It's a very useful addition but is often sabotaged by listing too many artists that almost everybody likes or can relate to in an effort to grab as much interest as possible. What happens is that instead of listing a few bands that resemble the music, the advert author puts in bands they would like to sound like or think they sound like in the hope of garnering interest and credibility. Believe me, I've seen bands put influences up on their web pages that sounded very far removed from what the band actually sounded like; completely removed. Like saying, The Prodigy are a big influence when the music sounds more like Keane. You get my point.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]So when bands do this, isn't this really saying, “please like me because I like these bands too” or “look at how diverse my taste is, I'm really worth getting to know”? I suppose this is to be expected, because bands will try and sell themselves too and need common ground/the sharing of some favourite artists and genres to establish a musical relationship upon which to work from. But why not just say, “our favourite bands are...” and then list what bands really influence the sound of the music. Maybe this is just nit-picking.[/FONT]
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The only reliable thing you can realistically ever hope to find from a band member ad, is the person who actually plays the instrument you are looking for (how well they play it is another matter). After that, all bets are off and it will take getting to know them over a period of time to gauge their level of dedication, personality and whatnot. No surprise there.
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[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]However, like with personal ads, everyone carefully chooses what information to use in representing themselves and so band member wanted ads will always be subject to various kinds of unhelpful or incomplete data and info; missing info that could be very useful and would save both parties time and energy if they had it beforehand.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Of course, what can often happen is that in light of such incomplete data, people seeking band members will still try and make a judgement based on what info they do have. And depending on how desperate they are for members, might even overlook certain bad qualities because they have no other options.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Discuss and add your own theories.[/FONT]

Rigsby

Firstly, I'd say that few here on boards would consider "bands wanted" adverts as reliable. How do you find the right people ? By trial and error. In a lot of cases, the "trial" can last a long time, often ending in failure.

While it is important to give as much accurate information as possible, in the end it all boils down to whether the person replying is really interested or not. If the latter is the case, then it does not matter a jot, how an advert is worded. Even if an advert is a bit vague, but seems interesting, someone who is genuinely interested, will either seek more information or go along for an audition to see what happens.

IMO, it is not a case of the psychological aspect of the adverts that is the problem, but the psychology of the person(s) replying.

Time wasters are just that, regardless of how much effort is put into making an advert attractive.

Vomit

I've responded to all sorts of ads over the years. Some well-written, some not. I really find that there's no way to tell what you're going into until you actually meet the people who posted the ad.

Sometimes, you'll be put off slightly by ads like, "need gitarist 4 band.... influences metallica megadeth etc..", and naturally be a bit skeptical.. only then to actually meet up and find that they are pretty good!

On the other side, you might find extremely well-worded ads, which reads like something posted by a professional act, only to discover they can't play worth a ****.

It's a lottery. As for 'no timewasters' - this has value, I think. I does force to reader to give a second thought to whether or not they actually want to be a part of it. However, I find many people who post ads are timewasters themselves.

Another frustrating thing is when you see an ad along the lines of, "Drummer available. Years of experience, looking for funk band..own transport... itching to go!", and then you contact them with what seems like the perfect offer, and they vanish into the ether from which they came.

The whole process can be frustrating, and as has been said, they only way forward is to keep going, keep looking and don't give up.

Waking-Dreams

Rigsby wrote: »

IMO, it is not a case of the psychological aspect of the adverts that is the problem, but the psychology of the person(s) replying.

Totally agree. I suppose what I mean is, the the whole process of using said ads, the expectations people hold and how they gauge who is worth finding out more info about, etc.

Rigsby

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

Totally agree. I suppose what I mean is, the the whole process of using said ads, the expectations people hold and how they gauge who is worth finding out more info about, etc.

As Vomit says, it's a lottery. People have to be optimistic or they'll just become frustrated. Even if you are only mildly interested in an ad, there is nothing to be lost by seeking more information. In the end though, the only way to gauge whether an advert is worthwhile or not, as Vomit also says, is to go along and meet the poster. No amount of psychological analysis of an advert can beat this.

Sandvich

What do you do if you can't even find anyone interested to begin with? That seems to be the bigger issue these days. I try to be relatively specific with my interests and as a result have been trying to get people for about a year now with no success.

Waking-Dreams

Well naturally, nothing ever beats an in-person meeting, but you don't often meet every single person who posts an ad either, just like an employer may not interview every single candidate. That would involve a lot of time, effort and transport. So effectively, people 'screen' applicants, sometimes they get it right, the person they thought would be a time burglar was actually brilliant or the reverse is true. Of course, it will be a lottery of sorts.

But with YouTube and the like, I'd of thought it's much easier now for musicians to present themselves more accurately, and hence, cut down on wasting their time and vice versa.

Look at how dating sites work. From what I understand, people put up their best photo, spend an eternity thinking about what to include in their little blurb, and mention what they're looking for in other people. All well and good. But I'll hazard a guess and say many of these ads are probably way too vague. “Hobbies: I like going out; I like to have fun”. Who the hell doesn't like having fun? These things don't help much; they're something any human being can obviosuly relate to whereas saying, “I enjoy extreme sports, surfing, and I'm looking for like-minded people who also enjoy such” would be more helpful.

I believe that many musician wanted ads suffer from the same kind of dynamic. People are looking for others with similar interests but they're not being as up-front or detail specific as possible, out of fear of scaring away potential candidates. It's a scarcity mentality.

So the ads that are just not very specific because the authors are afraid of disqualifying people but then, by not doing that they're basically saying, “We'll take just about anyone”, which we all know isn't true.

As mentioned, sometimes the main reason people won't respond to an ad is because they just aren't interested at that moment in time, they have something else in the pipeline or other projects taking up their time. So it wouldn't have made a real difference in that case.

But when the ideal person you're looking for just happens to be looking wouldn't you want to provide the most accurate info? Else, they might make an initial impression from the ad, turn up for an audition, ask a few more questions and then figure it's not what the ad made it out to be.

Just a thought.

Rigsby

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

Well naturally, nothing ever beats an in-person meeting, but you don't often meet every single person who posts an ad either, just like an employer may not interview every single candidate. That would involve a lot of time, effort and transport. So effectively, people 'screen' applicants, sometimes they get it right, the person they thought would be a time burglar was actually brilliant or the reverse is true. Of course, it will be a lottery of sorts.

But with YouTube and the like, I'd of thought it's much easier now for musicians to present themselves more accurately, and hence, cut down on wasting their time and vice versa.

Look at how dating sites work. From what I understand, people put up their best photo, spend an eternity thinking about what to include in their little blurb, and mention what they're looking for in other people. All well and good. But I'll hazard a guess and say many of these ads are probably way too vague. “Hobbies: I like going out; I like to have fun”. Who the hell doesn't like having fun? These things don't help much; they're something any human being can obviosuly relate to whereas saying, “I enjoy extreme sports, surfing, and I'm looking for like-minded people who also enjoy such” would be more helpful.

I believe that many musician wanted ads suffer from the same kind of dynamic. People are looking for others with similar interests but they're not being as up-front or detail specific as possible, out of fear of scaring away potential candidates. It's a scarcity mentality.

So the ads that are just not very specific because the authors are afraid of disqualifying people but then, by not doing that they're basically saying, “We'll take just about anyone”, which we all know isn't true.

As mentioned, sometimes the main reason people won't respond to an ad is because they just aren't interested at that moment in time, they have something else in the pipeline or other projects taking up their time. So it wouldn't have made a real difference in that case.

But when the ideal person you're looking for just happens to be looking wouldn't you want to provide the most accurate info? Else, they might make an initial impression from the ad, turn up for an audition, ask a few more questions and then figure it's not what the ad made it out to be.

Just a thought.

What you say is basically true in an ideal world. However, human nature being what it is...


IMO, a lot of time and effort is saved by a face to face meeting. Most times a person will respond to a poster who is based reasonably close to him. More can be learned in a fifteen minute face to face meeting than in two weeks of correspondence by PM or email. Also, if they don't show up, then you know instantly that they were a time waster, instead of finding out after maybe a week of correspondence.

Even if someone does use You Tube, there is no guarantee they are going to show up and waste your time anyway.


As I said earlier, no amount of on line "screening" can make up for actually meeting in person. It will have to be done sooner or later anyway, if it's to be a success, so why not the former ?

Waking-Dreams

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]I think everyone reading agrees that an interview/in-person meeting is always where it should be leading to as quick as possible. That wasn't being disputed, but given that many people inevitably have to use these adverts in order to attract attention and set-up such meetings, disclosing as much detail as possible would probably be more beneficial in the long run and using whatever tools necessary (for instance, demonstrating one's playing ability with a video would be more accurate than some text that says “I'm a pretty good musician”).[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]Of course, things can always go sour down the line, that's all part of getting to know someone on a personal level but that's not the issue here. It's about people's approach to using the ads and how they represent themselves/read other people's ads and make choices.
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[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]To take an older example:[/FONT]

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Instruments Played: I play both bass and guitar. I play six string bass and seven string guitar as I'm a big fan of having an extended range of notes available.
Desired Genre(s): On the guitar I generally play metal. I'm more open-minded on the bass
Location: I'm based in Tralee about 5 minutes drive from the centre of the town.
Age: I'm 30.
Influences: On the guitar it's probably James Hetfield and Dino Cazares. On the bass I'm a big fan of Cliff Burton and John Myung.
Available Sound Samples: I don't have much stuff available online to listen to. I do a lot of writing with Guitar Pro so I can e-mail some MP3 renderings from that. Here are some YouTube video links to a gig my current band played back in March in Galway. I'm the guitar player on the left.
Additional Info: I have recently moved to Tralee from Galway so I don't have any amps with me so anyone that wants to meet up will have to wait until I can get them down to Tralee or if they happen to have a spare all the better! The Galway-based band that I'm in has taken a bit of a break so I am keen to get jamming again as soon as possible.

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[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]This kind of detail is very useful, yet, there seems to be a lack of such depth in a good number of the ads posted here. Is it any wonder then why some people get frustrated?[/FONT]

raindog.promo

Waking-Dreams wrote: »

[FONT=Verdana, sans-serif]This kind of detail is very useful, yet, there seems to be a lack of such depth in a good number of the ads posted here. Is it any wonder then why some people get frustrated?[/FONT]

That post above is using a template one of the mods posted up in a sticky.
Some people use it and some can't be arsed.

The mod also posts a link to the sticky in the vague wanted ads (that I've seen) so fair play to him, but more often than not, it's ignored (in ads where the mod has posted the link).

Sandvich

I don't know how to post a looking for a band thread anymore to be honest. Some of my threads have been ROFL xD so randum and others have been too dressed up in a suit for what I want to do.

I don't think it necessarily matters if someone is really interested, but it can be easy to put people off with remarks like "No timewasters" etc.

I don't think that these threads should follow a template unless you're really unsure.

Sergio

Ive spent the last nearly 2 yrs looking to set up a good coverband in cork almost had one together about a month ago until band members decided to drop out.......bloody disaster if im being honest.
I met alot of different musicians while advertising here and peoples attitudes and personalities within the band is more important than how good they are at their instruments IMO.
Everyone has to be singing off the same hymn sheet or else the cracks will start to appear straight away!

Rigsby

IMO, a big problem here on boards is people having no confidence in themselves or their playing. They may not intend to waste people's time, but end up doing so because of this. It's ok playing away to your heart's content in the safety of your bedroom, but coming out and playing with others....:eek:

Usually people say they are very interested ( and maybe they are ) right up until the "ok, we meet and jam tomorrow" stage. Then the excuses come flooding in. That's if you are lucky enough to even get any correspondence.

Personally, I don't see the advantage in too much window dressing in adverts. I think it is merely a matter of giving as much accurate information as possible, and hoping for the best.

After all, as we all agree, it's a lottery in the end.

the_syco

Rigsby wrote: »

Usually people say they are very interested ( and maybe they are ) right up until the "ok, we meet and jam tomorrow" stage. Then the excuses come flooding in. That's if you are lucky enough to even get any correspondence.

This is why you must jam with them. That, and if they can't get to you to jam with you, how will they ever rehearse with you?

Have seen the quality of some people applying for bands. Some give bands that they listen to, but they may not play any of their stuff. When listing off bands, they should list of stuff they play, as opposed t stuff that they listen to: better chance of finding a proper musician then.

setanta74

I'm in a band that originated from boards a year ago. 4 guys who didnt know each other and now 12 months later and 20plus gigs under our belts we are all really good mates and ticking away blissfully.

I did endure a few months of torture before that ( failed meetups, broken promises, lies, disappearances, bedroom heros, world dominators etc) - one guy even had an ad with the line "gigs in place for next 3 months" and then proceeded to look for a bass player, lead guitar , drummer and keyboards!!!!

I suppose it was just luck and patience that eventually paid off.

Ours was just a simple ad with 3 lines looking for laid back guys to jam with and ultimately get gigging. No pressure.

Rigsby

setanta74 wrote: »

I'm in a band that originated from boards a year ago. 4 guys who didnt know each other and now 12 months later and 20plus gigs under our belts we are all really good mates and ticking away blissfully.

A band originating on boards, successful, and still together after a year :eek:

That is a rarity indeed.


Best of luck with it.

drumdrum

Well, I think the whole advert thing is like anything in life. If it looks more professional and attractive, it will attract the most interest. An advert with more relevant information, worded correctly and grammatically correct is more appealing than the "Im in a band, need a guitarist....play stuff like Muse....any takers?"

Look at ANY advert out there for any product. Its usually flashy, eye-catching and in some form or other it gets the product across, usually via a visual stimulus.

As musicians, obviously its the demos that we have that give us the proper idea of a persons sound.

Ive answered ads on here before that looked great only to find that the band were crap and/or lazy.

Personally, Ive learned from my mistakes in the past and I never agree to meet up for a jam now without hearing a sample. Thats not to say I dont answer ads that dont volunteer this info....I usually ask for it in the PM I send to them. By hearing them its the only way to be sure of what you are getting into musically as its the music you play that ties the members together and you all need to want to do what you do.

That said, getting a demo together these days can be tough especially for younger bands who dont have funds. Obviously, no one is going to hire out a studio with the premise to getting a demo to get other musicians, but getting a semi-decent quality recording of yourself (usually a home recording) can be done for little money.

And to be honest, the bands that do have these demos, for me, are instantly more appealing not just because I can hear what Im getting into, but also because that by them having gone to the effort to record the demo, I know that more than likely the band is serious about what they do and that they are not wasters. The last thing you potentially want is to be in the band 2/3 years later without a release to your name, having played only a handful of gigs and wondering why you're not "signed" yet!

My €0.02......

Sandvich

Rigsby wrote: »

IMO, a big problem here on boards is people having no confidence in themselves or their playing. They may not intend to waste people's time, but end up doing so because of this. It's ok playing away to your heart's content in the safety of your bedroom, but coming out and playing with others....:eek:

Usually people say they are very interested ( and maybe they are ) right up until the "ok, we meet and jam tomorrow" stage. Then the excuses come flooding in. That's if you are lucky enough to even get any correspondence.

Personally, I don't see the advantage in too much window dressing in adverts. I think it is merely a matter of giving as much accurate information as possible, and hoping for the best.

After all, as we all agree, it's a lottery in the end.

Well, that's a big part of it. I don't really learn songs on my own, I don't have the attention span, my music theory isn't great. I mostly just jam along to myself but don't really do much of note. It's mostly the tracks I make that I show off, which don't as of yet involve guitar as recording a decent sound is a nightmare. I got an amp modeler for that and frustratingly it has hiss everywhere.

I still think ideally I could work in a band situation but it needs to be one where you don't feel like you're tightrope walking because even if I manage to grind my skills for an audition I'll likely just get too stressed out.

What I need is a more casual situation where skill doesn't necessarily matter all that much, as we're all learning together, etc., as long as people have a decent basic level of skill, timing, know a few chords/scales then I think you can make music.

I think an awful lot of people have said it, but I'll say it again that skill is not the important thing and you can find that easily enough. It's more creativity and dedication; those are things which are harder to develop.

However, none of this changes the fact that I still want to have a level of technical proficiency to do the kind of music I want to make... which is a skill I feel I'll only develop in a band(free style jamming can make you get good, fast, trial by fire, I even ended up recording a half decent keyboard track idea or two this way even though I've no ****ing clue how to play keys).

So I'm kind of stuck at the moment. I don't feel I'm quite good enough to develop my music on my own, but aside from the fact that it's impossible to find anyone who wants to do the same thing I do, I feel a bit shy about entering a band situation too.

Rigsby

Sandvich wrote: »

Well, that's a big part of it. I don't really learn songs on my own, I don't have the attention span, my music theory isn't great. I mostly just jam along to myself but don't really do much of note. It's mostly the tracks I make that I show off, which don't as of yet involve guitar as recording a decent sound is a nightmare. I got an amp modeler for that and frustratingly it has hiss everywhere.

I still think ideally I could work in a band situation but it needs to be one where you don't feel like you're tightrope walking because even if I manage to grind my skills for an audition I'll likely just get too stressed out.

What I need is a more casual situation where skill doesn't necessarily matter all that much, as we're all learning together, etc., as long as people have a decent basic level of skill, timing, know a few chords/scales then I think you can make music.

I think an awful lot of people have said it, but I'll say it again that skill is not the important thing and you can find that easily enough. It's more creativity and dedication; those are things which are harder to develop.

However, none of this changes the fact that I still want to have a level of technical proficiency to do the kind of music I want to make... which is a skill I feel I'll only develop in a band(free style jamming can make you get good, fast, trial by fire, I even ended up recording a half decent keyboard track idea or two this way even though I've no ****ing clue how to play keys).

So I'm kind of stuck at the moment. I don't feel I'm quite good enough to develop my music on my own, but aside from the fact that it's impossible to find anyone who wants to do the same thing I do, I feel a bit shy about entering a band situation too.

I can see what you mean, and it's all true. It seems to be a vicious circle. People dont think they are good enough to be in a band, yet playing with others, preferably people a little better than you, can make you progress faster.

It's almost impossible to find people who want to do the exact same thing (thank goodness ). A compromise is the answer. This trait is a big asset in a band.

I dont have a problem with people not being confident, but they should wait until it builds, before considering answering an advert. This is how time wasters come about. They reply very confidently to an advert, then fold instantly when it comes to the crunch.

Sandvich

The problem is I can't find anyone wanting to do something even in the spirit of what I want to do.

I think the nature of adverts almost rules out a more casual relationship unfortunately. I used to hate the idea when I was younger, it seemed too professional. Then I "grew up" a bit unfortunately and it didn't help one bit.

I think two people with very different musical focus can potentially make very interesting music if they have some degree of common ground. But being in a band needs to be a bit deeper.

Zombienosh

its all luck i think... im always putting up ads, trying to do something a little different. no interest in it.

Malice

Wow, lots to respond to on this thread, hopefully I get through it all .

raindog.promo wrote:

That post above is using a template one of the mods posted up in a sticky.
Some people use it and some can't be arsed.

The mod also posts a link to the sticky in the vague wanted ads (that I've seen) so fair play to him, but more often than not, it's ignored (in ads where the mod has posted the link).

That mod being me . Lack of details was one of the things that used to bug me when I came across this forum first. I think overall the quality of ads has improved since I started focusing on that aspect.

As for some people using the template, more like most people don't use it . I think it's a shame as it forces people to have a think about what they are looking for and provides plenty of information for readers to digest. It is heartening to see people put together well-written and informative posts but we have no way of knowing whether those kinds of posts get better results as posters rarely come back to update a thread saying that they have found their drummer or whatever.

Sandvich wrote:

I don't think that these threads should follow a template unless you're really unsure.

Why not? The template I put together isn't exactly difficult to fill out. There are 8 points, 5 of which are optional meaning that all you really need to fill out is genre, location and positions available/wanted. If you can't do that much then you probably should think a bit more about what you're trying to do.

Colinboy wrote:

peoples attitudes and personalities within the band is more important than how good they are at their instruments IMO.

Absolutely! I'm pretty sure the majority of people who post on here are more than capable of playing their instrument of choice so the hard part is being able to find or create a band playing a style of music all members enjoy and being able to spend hours jamming together without having personality clashes.

Sandvich

Why not? The template I put together isn't exactly difficult to fill out. There are 8 points, 5 of which are optional meaning that all you really need to fill out is genre, location and positions available/wanted. If you can't do that much then you probably should think a bit more about what you're trying to do.

What I'm talking about is following them structurally as some people do. There's nothing more annoying than when someone won't even say where they're based. If anything it should be in the thread title very time.

drumdrum

I also think that (maybe its an Irish thing...) that people are often a lot more insecure in themselves than they think.

So one second they are like "Ohh...wouldnt it be fun to be in a band? I think I will put up an ad!" and they do so from the safety of their computer screen.

But when the time comes to meet up, the insecurities emerge and the excuses flow. I find that the more experienced musicians tend to know their limitations and therefore are more comfortable in themselves as a musician.

Up until recently I was singing in a band I met via boards and although it didnt work out (was told that the band was going instrumental...make of that what you will!) I learned a lot about what I can and cannot do as a singer. Seeing as this is a 2nd instrument of mine, I feel better in my abilities overall (Im no Myles Kennedy though....as much as I may wish! ) and Im much more likely now to reply to ads that I like the look of.

Basically, my advice to any first timers out there is....as Nike say (said?)...
just do it! Even if you suck, what you could learn about yourself if too valuable to pass up!

raindog.promo

If yiz are secure in your playing and whatnot, join the happy gang!

Know your Musos!

*That's not a challenge or anything, just a friendly suggestion. Plus I'm a nosey fecker.

Malice

raindog.promo wrote: »

If yiz are secure in your playing and whatnot, join the happy gang!

Know your Musos!

*That's not a challenge or anything, just a friendly suggestion. Plus I'm a nosey fecker.

And of course it's good to put faces to names so that if we ever get a Bands & Musicians Beers organised, we'll stand some chance of recognising each other .