Wiring a 3 phase motor for 240V

Carlow52

Following on from this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=67406117

It seems that most good quality 3 phase motors can be wired for either 240V or 415V, if the 6 wires are in the connector box.

Would be obliged for some pointers on:
1: how do you know it will take 240 or 415 by looking at the plate
2: how to establish the full load current
2: where to find the relevant wiring diagrams.

All the stuff on the web is dominated by the US market, with 120/208 voltage and the Wye and Star configurations
Thanks

Solair

Minor note :

It would be 230V or 400V in Ireland.
Or, even 220V and 380V.

240/415 is the old GB/Aus/NZ standard.

brightspark

Wye (Y) and Star are both the same.

The other connection is Delta (looks like a triangle)

Found this guide on line

http://www.drivesdirect.co.uk/Downloads/InvertertoMotorWiring.pdf

The Full Load Current is written on the plate (usually).



Just noticed that on the thread you refered to you linked to this a couple of days ago.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/bob.minchin/Induction%20motors%20-%20Issue2.pdf

It seems to have plenty of information. What exactly did you need to know?

2011

If you connect a 3 phase motor in star then you are applying the phase voltage across each winding (230 volts in ireland). If you connect the same motor in delta you then apply the line voltage across each winding (400 volts in Ireland).

Does that answer your question?

M cebee

the first 2 should be on the 'nameplate'

you can google the wiring diagrams

star/delta or soft start can be used -depending on the supply and starting torque needed

Hoagy

Carlow52 wrote: »

It seems that most good quality 3 phase motors can be wired for either 240V or 415V, if the 6 wires are in the connector box.

They're still three phase, though, no help if you're thinking about a single phase supply.
Dual voltage motors are connected to suit the local three phase voltage.

brightspark

Hoagy wrote: »

They're still three phase, though, no help if you're thinking about a single phase supply.
Dual voltage motors are connected to suit the local three phase voltage.

Unless you're using an inverter with 230V single phase input and 230V three phase output.

Hoagy

brightspark wrote: »

Unless you're using an inverter with 230V single phase input and 230V three phase output.

Yes, but following from the original thread you might suspect that the OP is maybe thinking that he might not need a converter if he got a dual voltage motor.

Carlow52

Thanks for all the replies, my post was not clear:(

it seems 2XX single to 2XX 3 phase inverters are more accessible, cheaper and more reliable than the few 2XX single to 4XX 3 phase inverters.

crowbar27

any one know where you get a drawing to make your own single phase to three phaze inverter ?

brightspark

crowbar27 wrote: »

any one know where you get a drawing to make your own single phase to three phaze inverter ?

Why would anyone want to?

I doubt if the components required could be sourced any cheaper than buying a complete unit (nevermind the time involved in assembly).

If anyone wanted to build it as a project, I would expect that they would already have such an understanding of electronics that they would be able to design the inverter themselves.

crowbar27

cheapest inverter you can get with a good amps rating is around 1100 euro . And it is a home project my dad and I want to do as we have must of the gear about yard. i know the basics for the building one with the ratios and the stepping up of the windings. any help would be great

Carlow52

crowbar27 wrote: »

cheapest inverter you can get with a good amps rating is around 1100 euro . And it is a home project my dad and I want to do as we have must of the gear about yard. i know the basics for the building one with the ratios and the stepping up of the windings. any help would be great

Depending on your needs 1100 will go a long way here
http://www.inverterdrive.com/default.aspx

Bruthal

brightspark wrote: »

Why would anyone want to?

I doubt if the components required could be sourced any cheaper than buying a complete unit (nevermind the time involved in assembly).

If anyone wanted to build it as a project, I would expect that they would already have such an understanding of electronics that they would be able to design the inverter themselves.

It can be done without electronics, a 3 phase motor is used with L & N to 2 of the phase connections on the motor and the 3rd phase is generated by the motor itself on the 3rd phase connection. A capacitor is needed to initially start it, and so there is 230v 3 phase produced between the L-N-3rd motor connection. I put one of them in a workshop before, and it also had a step up transformer from 230v to 400v. Different size capacitors were needed between the L and produced phase and also between the N and produced phase to balance the phase angle, this part was done by the commissioning fella who supplied the invertor.

To run a small 3 phase motor from single phase it can also be done by connecting L and N to 2 phases of the motor and the 3rd phase is produced for the motor operation by connecting the right size capacitors from the Live to the unconnected phase, and the Neutral to the unconnected phase. A 230v line voltage motor would be needed connected in delta for a 230v single phase supply.

Carlow52

robbie7730 wrote: »

It can be done without electronics, a 3 phase motor is used with L & N to 2 of the phase connections on the motor and the 3rd phase is generated by the motor itself on the 3rd phase connection. A capacitor is needed to initially start it, and so there is 230v 3 phase produced between the L-N-3rd motor connection. I put one of them in a workshop before, and it also had a step up transformer from 230v to 400v. Different size capacitors were needed between the L and produced phase and also between the N and produced phase to balance the phase angle, this part was done by the commissioning fella who supplied the invertor.

To run a small 3 phase motor from single phase it can also be done by connecting L and N to 2 phases of the motor and the 3rd phase is produced for the motor operation by connecting the right size capacitors from the Live to the unconnected phase, and the Neutral to the unconnected phase. A 230v line voltage motor would be needed connected in delta for a 230v single phase supply.

AFAIK, for what its worth, using a 3 phase motor in the rig as described above gives what is referred to in the trade as a converter and not an inverter.

The difference is explained in the links in post 3 above.

Bruthal

Carlow52 wrote: »

AFAIK, for what its worth, using a 3 phase motor in the rig as described above gives what is referred to in the trade as a converter and not an inverter.

The difference is explained in the links in post 3 above.

Well in invertor converts dc to ac, no big deal, but i did`t think it was all that important to make sure i said invertor instead of convertor, sorry for my horrendous mistype there:) Did you look at the links explaining the difference before this reply? It should be simple enough even for sparks that cant spell right like me.

crowbar27

thanks carlow52 it was a converter drawing not inverter i was looking for got mixed up between the two but found these to sites that should do it for me what do ye thing?

http://www.wnysupply.com/index.cfm/fa/categories.main/parentcat/25431

http://www.electro-tech-online.com/re-projects/100563-3-phase-converter-schematic-miller-system.html

Bruthal

crowbar27 wrote: »

thanks carlow52 it was a converter drawing not inverter i was looking for got mixed up between the two but found these to sites that should do it for me what do ye thing?

http://www.wnysupply.com/index.cfm/fa/categories.main/parentcat/25431

http://www.electro-tech-online.com/re-projects/100563-3-phase-converter-schematic-miller-system.html

It is a convertor your looking for alright, electronic ones that convert single phase ac to 3 phase ac incorporate an invertor in them along with a rectifier. The rectifier turns the single phase AC into DC, and the invertor converts this DC 3 phase AC.
The motor method i mentioned earlier does`t use the DC invertor or the AC rectifier, it just generates its own 3rd phase, so whether its an electronic invertor type or idler motor type, they are both convertors.