Drumb and Drumber

TelePaul

Howdy chaps. A few drum questions if I may.

Firstly, I know it's probably been asked before, but do you guys mix from the drummer's or the audience's perspective? Is there any consensus on this? Or have approaches evolved over time? For me, drummer perspective seems most natural.

Secondly, gating: what exactly do you guys gate? Toms, snare and kick? Or just toms? Or nothing? I'm kinda of the opinion that some gating is necessary but would like to get some other opinions.

Drum tracking - a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

MilanPan!c

TelePaul wrote: »

Howdy chaps. A few drum questions if I may.

Firstly, I know it's probably been asked before, but do you guys mix from the drummer's or the audience's perspective? Is there any consensus on this? Or have approaches evolved over time? For me, drummer perspective seems most natural.

Secondly, gating: what exactly do you guys gate? Toms, snare and kick? Or just toms? Or nothing? I'm kinda of the opinion that some gating is necessary but would like to get some other opinions.

Drum tracking - a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

Always from the Drummers perspective... it's, as you say, much more natural feeling... unless you're a left handed drummer I suppose

Gating... back when I used to track real drummers it would depend on the day, the mics the drummer and the songs...

Not sure, unless you're trying to create a signature drum sound, that there's much point it having a hard and fast rule for something like that....

i57dwun4yb1pt8

audience perspective as per the 60s and 70s ,

I want the tracks to sound and image like im in front of the stage , not behind it or on it

only gate reverbs sometimes , and toms if they are humming to much

ZV Yoda

For me, always from the drummer's perspective (but I'm a drummer). I see the logic of using the audience's perspective but I'm so used to drum/cymbal orientation from behind the kit that I’d confuse the hell out of myself if I had to mix the opposite way around.

Re gating, it’s really down to the sound you’re after, the room acoustics, drum head tuning, player style etc. I prefer to gate as little as possible (to keep a more natural drum sound) but really it depends on personal taste.

Do you have an example of a song/drummer who’s sound you like?

TelePaul

ZV Yoda wrote: »

Do you have an example of a song/drummer who’s sound you like?

ZV Yoda

Seriously though, not really...I hadn't thought about it that much but I probably wouldn't have Bonham or Neil Peart or Grohl on my list - they're great drummers but sonically, little of their work strikes a chord with me (no pun intended). Drummers who I admire for the tones they've put on tape are Mark Rzezicki, Rick Buckler, Phil Collins (yes, really) and Topper Headon. I guess these tones are representative of the whole production and mixing process...I'm really only asking because I've only recently acquired enough mics to close mic my toms and am trying to get a strong attack out of them.

ZV Yoda

TelePaul wrote: »

ZV Yoda

Seriously though, not really...I hadn't thought about it that much but I probably wouldn't have Bonham or Neil Peart or Grohl on my list - they're great drummers but sonically, little of their work strikes a chord with me (no pun intended). Drummers who I admire for the tones they've put on tape are Mark Rzezicki, Rick Buckler, Phil Collins (yes, really) and Topper Headon. I guess these tones are representative of the whole production and mixing process...I'm really only asking because I've only recently acquired enough mics to close mic my toms and am trying to get a strong attack out of them.

I wish! I’m the first to admit I’m not a good enough drummer / engineer to stand any chance of getting an acoustic kit to sound the way I want it to sound. The ZV Yoda sound (if there is such a thing!)… is all Superior Drummer played on vDrums. SD is such an amazing piece of software, it even makes me sound like I can play!

As DaDumTish mentioned on here before, when you're playing an acoustic kit, you need to use your arms/legs to control the sound and balance the kit as you play... hit the toms hardest, followed by kick, snare, cymbals then hi-hats.

I don't know the other 2 drummers, but Rzezicki & Collins are (were?) top class drummers - and both pretty heavy hitters. So their technique /ability is a big part of why they sound so good. Also, that trademark “80s tom sound” tends to have a lot of gated plate reverb on the tom closed mics, so that might help.

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

ZV Yoda

Drummers who I admire for the tones they've put on tape are Mark Rzezicki, Rick Buckler, Phil Collins (yes, really) and Topper Headon. I guess these tones are representative of the whole production and mixing process....

Mark Brzezicki ? Big Country ?

The Jam and Phil Collin's stuff was recorded in Townhouse Studio in London .... I think Big Country's 'The Crossing' was too. (Produced by Steve Lilywhite)

So that might explain a bit what you like !

TelePaul

ZV Yoda wrote: »

I wish! I’m the first to admit I’m not a good enough drummer / engineer to stand any chance of getting an acoustic kit to sound the way I want it to sound. The ZV Yoda sound (if there is such a thing!)… is all Superior Drummer played on vDrums. SD is such an amazing piece of software, it even makes me sound like I can play!

I have a Roland V Kit and SD2. Pretty indispensable but still using them largely for silent practice. When i can play in time, I'll use them to record.

ZV Yoda wrote: »

As DaDumTish mentioned on here before, when you're playing an acoustic kit, you need to use your arms/legs to control the sound and balance the kit as you play... hit the toms hardest, followed by kick, snare, cymbals then hi-hats.

Yep, I've heard this before. Really have to get my brain used to this though! I think it's because when we learn, we overlook the toms completely in favour of the kick-snare-hatt triangle.

ZV Yoda wrote: »

I don't know the other 2 drummers, but Rzezicki & Collins are (were?) top class drummers - and both pretty heavy hitters. So their technique /ability is a big part of why they sound so good. Also, that trademark “80s tom sound” tends to have a lot of gated plate reverb on the tom closed mics, so that might help.

Buckler was with the Jam - he and Bruce Foxton were responsible for a huge amount of The Jam sound. Listen to some of the tom fills on 'Going Underground', huge sounds. Topper Headon was with the Clash - need I say more? Their rhythms betrayed the ethos of punk. Spectacularly so.

TelePaul

PaulBrewer wrote: »

Mark Brzezicki ? Big Country ?

The Jam and Phil Collin's stuff was recorded in Townhouse Studio in London .... I think Big Country's 'The Crossing' was too. (Produced by Steve Lilywhite)

So that might explain a bit what you like !

Wow, that's crazy!!! Yup Mark Brzezicki but was thinking of his time with the Cult. Still though, that's a huge coincidence (if you could call it that at all!)

PaulBrewer

TelePaul wrote: »

Wow, that's crazy!!! Yup Mark Brzezicki but was thinking of his time with the Cult. Still though, that's a huge coincidence (if you could call it that at all!)

You'll probably like XTC's and Siouxsie and the Banshee's drum sound too so ...

I do think that late 70's very early 80s was a golden period for recording in general .....