The state of Glenmalure

westtip

I was in Glenmalure today with my two boys aged 5 and 7 and 87 year old mother what the bloody hell is going on in this most lovely part of the county about 300 yards befor the An Oige Hostel, at what used to be lovely picnic spots we are now faced with broken bottles, litter endles remnants of camp fires, defactation and toilet usage all over the place what the hell is happening.

I used to go to this lovely glen years ago - it is being destroyed by litter carnage and pure filth of human debris.

What kind of society are we living in.

If I had had a foreign national tourist with me I would have been embarrassed.

My mother aged 87 could not beleive what she saw. The place is being destroyed. Wicklow CC need to grasp the nettle on this one.

Alun

It's been like that for a while, getting steadily worse each year though with all the "camping" that goes on along there. I agree though, it's a complete mess, but I'm pretty sure that part is outside of the National Park so I'm unsure what could be done about it unless the landowner (whoever that is, maybe Coillte?) do anything.

Judgement Day

Does it ever end - it's like trying to bail out a rowing boat in a storm! Wicklow County Council have to be the first port of call westtip - crack open another ginger beer (we are not in C+T here so it's allowed) and email this useless ****er: minister@environ.ie

and then these Wicklow TDs:

Dick Roche FF dick.roche@taoiseach.gov.ie

Liz McManus Labour liz.mcmanus@oireachtas.ie

Billy Timmins FG Timmins@finegael.ie

Andrew Doyle FG andrew.doyle@oireachtas.ie

Joe Behan (formerly of FF now Ind.) joe.behan@oireachtas.ie

You might like to let them now that you have put a post on Boards and will be contacting the local papers, Failte Ireland etc. I find this sort of 'spamming' works wonders and is therapeutic if nothing else.



Belvoir organic ginger beer is what I'm on tonight - great afterburn!

Cookie_Monster

I opened this thinking it was going to be about the mass deforestation tree management that has gone on there which is nothing short of sickening. I emailed Coillte many years ago and got a reply basically saying it was policy to remove every conifer from the area and "convert" it to deciduous. To this day there has been little or nothing done to promote that, infact the conifers are growing back naturally :rolleyes:

The whole place has gone to **** though, and breakins of cars parked at the ford car park are on the increase too seemingly, from reports in Outdoo Pursuits a while back.

hmmm

In fairness to the guards I regularly see them driving down there. But, what can they do, it's not illegal to camp there (?) ? It's trying to catch people leaving the place in a mess that is the problem.

I see families with kids in nice cars camping there, and when I pass later they have left the place in tatters. What sort of feckless mind does it take to do that?

WestWicklow1

I arrived with a group (NOT walkers) to stay in the Glenmalure Lodge very recently at approx 6:00pm. On arriving in the car park I noticed four cars with doors and boots open, approx 10 to 15 people (male & female and obviously NOT walkers) donning their backpacks full of beer and heading into the hills!!! No tents, some seeping bags and some toilet rolls.

They arrived back at the carpark at about 08:00am looking tired, hung over and I noticed that their backpacks were empty. They were people in their late twenties to mid thirties who simply arrived and walked into the hills for a night of drinking. They were well bahaved, ready for a bit of craic and I'm sure they had it but where were all the empty cans and the toilet rolls!!!

Judgement Day

Taking this slightly off topic but I listened in horror, but not surprise, to a recent RTE report about problems encountered by pilgrims and mountain rescue personnel on Croagh Patrick due to the state of the pathway near the summit. I think the figure of 100,000+ people climbing the mountain every year was mentioned but the point about the damage this must be causing to the mountain was not picked up on. If people wish to risk their safety that is their own business (and the mountain rescue people!) but should some regard for the location itself not feature in planning for the future? In the UK some places now have had to restrict visitor numbers to help reduce their impact on sensitive sites. Incidentally, not being of a religious bent I have never felt the inclination to climb Croagh Patrick and I wonder if the pilgrims clean up after themselves?

westtip

Judgement Day wrote: »

Does it ever end - it's like trying to bail out a rowing boat in a storm! Wicklow County Council have to be the first port of call westtip - crack open another ginger beer (we are not in C+T here so it's allowed) and email this useless ****er: minister@environ.ie

and then these Wicklow TDs:

Dick Roche FF dick.roche@taoiseach.gov.ie

Liz McManus Labour liz.mcmanus@oireachtas.ie

Billy Timmins FG Timmins@finegael.ie

Andrew Doyle FG andrew.doyle@oireachtas.ie

Joe Behan (formerly of FF now Ind.) joe.behan@oireachtas.ie

You might like to let them now that you have put a post on Boards and will be contacting the local papers, Failte Ireland etc. I find this sort of 'spamming' works wonders and is therapeutic if nothing else.



Belvoir organic ginger beer is what I'm on tonight - great afterburn!

JD aha you have tracked me down to Wicklow on the my travels- believe me my pen is working overtime. It was heartily sickening though. I was there last year with the boys and it seems to have got worst, this year one bunch of campers had actualy erected a temporary latrine out of hardboard, with its very own DIY loo inside the cubicle and left behind a 12 litre paint pot full of S H one T. Just outside the latrine was a hole about 3 foot deep again full of the same stuff and used papers blowing around - I am sorry to paint this torrid picture - I do hope someone from Wickow CC is reading this - The garden of Ireland being well and truly fertilised. I had to stop th kids playing in the river, building dams etc as the evidence of human defacation on the river bank was endless.

I went into the Glendalough An Oige Hostel to check it out for a potental use with my lads - and got into a conversation with the warden. he was telling me how the old hostel in Glenmalure now has a "prison fence" around it to protect it. I ask you WTF has happened to this country.

He was telling me they just come in on Friday/Saturday night, party all night get up on Sunday hammered get the car and go home. This kind of scumbag behaviour has to be stopped.....

Police the place till they get out. Brikng back the stocks send in the hosepipes and water canon them out of the place.....Zero tolerance Singapore style would make this a better country to live in.

If any potential tourists are reading this - go to Scotland for your wallking holiday - you won't have to put up with this kind of anti-social behavour they value the country there and look after their beauty spots.

westtip

For anyone intested on this one I fired off the following last week (as yet no responses). but will keep this thread posted.

I am sending this as an Open email to the following:

Minister of State for the Environment, All Wicklow county TDs
An Garda Siochana Wicklow Divisional Officer: Chief Superintendent Thos. Conway (no email address available sent as hard copy)

Wicklow County Manager – and members of Wicklow CC.

Failte Ireland. Coillte.

Some of you may have read the letter published in the Irish Times regarding the state of Glenmalure yesterday – here is a link to that letter:

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/letters/2010/0817/1224276972370.html

In addition to this letter the matter is being discussed on the internet forum Boards.ie at the following link.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055998215

I am asking that you please do not bother to write to me with an acknowledgement of this email. If you plan to do something about this situation then do let me know, If you plan to do nothing stay silent, don’t waste any paper on letting me know you are doing nothing. By the way passing a motion at a council meeting in my mind is doing nothing.

I was in Glenmalure on Thursday 12th August with my two boys aged 5 and 7 and 87 year old mother. What the hell is going on in this most lovely part of the county about 300 yards before the An Oige Hostel, at what used to be lovely natural picnic spots by the river we are now faced with broken bottles, litter endles remnants of camp fires, and evidence of human toilet usage all over the place what the hell is happening.

It was heartily sickening to see the state of the glen. I was there last year with the boys and it seems to have got worst, this year one bunch of campers had actually erected a temporary latrine out of hardboard in the area I mentioned above with its very own DIY toilet inside the cubicle and left behind a 12 litre paint pot full of **** (sorry to use that word but sometimes you have to say it as it is). Just outside the makeshift DIY latrine was a hole about 3 foot deep again full of the same stuff and used papers blowing around - I had to stop the boys playing in the river, building dams etc as the evidence of human defecation on the river bank was endless.

As you approach the an oige hostel after crossing the ford on the left hand side is an old mansion house, set back from the road, it’s the ruins of I think an 17th or 18th century built house and is quite an impressive ruin. My boys were eager to go explore it. Its full of defecation beer cans, broken bottles. They are old enough to realise this is evidence of anti-social behaviour of decrepit minds.

I used to go to this lovely glen years ago - it is being destroyed by litter carnage and pure filth of human debris. If I had had a foreign national tourist with me I would have been embarrassed.

Myself and my boys collected a large bin bag of rubbish in a five minute clear up of the small area where we had our picnic. The boys had to keep their shoes on to prevent getting cut feet.

My mother aged 87 could not believe what she saw. The department of the Environment, Wicklow CC, Coilte, An Garda Siochana – in fact all public bodies that may have some input on this matter need to get their heads together and examine what is happening and do something about it. Please don’t write to me saying we are really sorry about what you saw etc, just get the place cleaned up and enforce a zero tolerance policy.

I went into the Glendalough An Oige Hostel to check it out for a potental use with my lads - and got into a conversation with the warden. he was telling me how the old hostel in Glenmalure now has a "prison fence" around it to protect it. I ask you what the hell has happened to this country.

He was telling me they (party fly campers) just go into Glenmalure on Friday/Saturday night, party all night get up on Sunday hammered get in the car and go home, leaving all behind them, including sometimes their tents.

Zero tolerance is the only option. Do what you will but for goodness sake, but do something.

Try this:

The side of the road approaching the youth hostel should be fenced off with a gate entry which is closed at 7.00 pm, we still want to encourage people to visit the glen and picnic but overnight camping in the glen by the river needs to be controlled or stopped. Fencing in keeping with the style of the area would be appropriate.

Some wooden picnic tables and perhaps a bbq area should be put in at points along the glen.

Clear signage about no overnight camping permitted in the area needs to go up. Clear signage asking people to take their rubbish home with them.

On Friday and Saturday evening An Garda Siochanna should let their presence be known in the Glen, perhaps with a road block and advising potential camping litter louts that camping is not permitted in the glen and littering will not be tolerated.

On Sunday morning, An Garda Siochanna should set up a road block on the glen and breathalyse all drivers coming out of the party tents from the Glen. A few prosecutions for DD checking of tax insurance and NCT certificate testing should put the kybosh on a few weekends.

If camping is going to continue in the glen, A simple toilet block needs to be provided for in the Glen. Nothing fancy but using the water from the stream and having a suitable percolation waste control this should be feasible. Rubbish bins (I Suggest lidded commercial bins that do get emptied), need to be put in place because these kind of people will not take their rubbish home with them.

Anyway – my guess is the issue will be discussed by various parties and nothing will happen. I can’t do anything about it I live in county Sligo – but my god if this is what we want our tourists to see heaven help the tourist industry. I know if I was a hill walking tourist I would be heading for Scotland.


Yours etc.

Judgement Day

fakeaccent wrote: »

Try ringing the Pure Project to report litter blackspots...

http://www.wicklowuplands.ie/projects/pp.php

Shouldn't think that there is any point in contacting them - have you looked at their website? Last newsletter Summer 2008!!! and the last Board minutes Feb.2009 at which point they seem to be running into a financial quagmire! Is this another ex.Parrot?

As a postscript - the phone (0404 - 43958) is not answered either!

Judgement Day

fakeaccent wrote: »

I'm pretty sure they're still active, you need to ring lo-call number: 1850 365 121

Well I have other fish to fry but anyway I wouldn't be impressed by any concern that lets its phone go unanswered and can't even manage to run a website. Over to you westtip!

recedite

westtip wrote: »

they (party fly campers) just go into Glenmalure on Friday/Saturday night, party all night get up on Sunday hammered get in the car and go home, leaving all behind them, including sometimes their tents.


............I can’t do anything about it I live in county Sligo – but my god if this is what we want our tourists to see heaven help the tourist industry. I know if I was a hill walking tourist I would be heading for Scotland.

I camped at Strandhill in Sligo the last 2 years and the same problem there with rowdy nocturnal overnighters in the dunes, between the official campsite and the beach. It's actually worse because they are underage drinkers, and can get the bus out from Sligo.

I don't think testing for NCT is relevant here, or breathalysing. And drinking outdoors is not illegal for people in their 20's and 30's.
Likewise camping in itself is not the problem. People have been wilderness camping for years. Bury your manure and take home the rubbish. Leave no trace. The problem is the attitude of people who are there for a nights carousing, and have no interest in seeing the area during daylight.

I suggest a policy of;
No Open Campfires (small stoves that don't leave a burnt patch OK)
No Litter
Leave No Trace

This can be policed with strategically positioned cameras to record and identify offenders.
Once a good template for managing these spots is developed, there are lots of other places it could be reproduced. The river below Knockree hostel springs to mind.

byrnef

Just back from a trip to Glenmalure with my wife and two young children. The lack of trees were the biggest problem - Coillte have made a mess of it by taking away most of the trees and not even leaving any at the roadside. Like most people, we took our own rubbish away with us, and even took a couple of bags of other people's rubbish (cans, beer bottles, etc which we saw). Such a pity to see how the place is being spoiled by both "litterbugs" and Coillte's trees policy.

Donny5

byrnef wrote: »

Such a pity to see how the place is being spoiled by both "litterbugs" and Coillte's trees policy.

Well, Coillte is a business that I think works pretty well to accomodate recreational forest users, but when it's felling time, you just have to accept that. The forests are there to be cut down. That's their raison d'être and that's what allows us to have so many freely available public forests.

As for litter, it's a cultural problem not at all specific to the forests and mountain. People litter everywhere, chuck stuff out car windows, throw butts on the ground. Lots of people leave their crap in the forests after camping and even more people just fly tip their household rubbish into ditches and over banks. It's a real shame.

Cookie_Monster

Donny5 wrote: »

Well, Coillte is a business that I think works pretty well to accomodate recreational forest users, but when it's felling time, you just have to accept that. The forests are there to be cut down. That's their raison d'être and that's what allows us to have so many freely available public forests.
.

Forests are not and should not be there solely to chop down. They are there for the well being of the environment and biodiversity, enjoyment of the population and O2 production and at only 7% of the country we have far far to little to be treating as a commercial product.

I have no issue with correctly managed forestry operations but Coillte could certainly take a leaf out of Sweden's book on how to manage the place.

The way they deforest enormous section of mountainside is totally inappropriate, causes large scale erosion and I have yet to see any great plans or evidence to re plant many of the areas the have cleared in recent years. Glenmalure was lovely 12 years ago, 10 years ago it was gutted and it still looks gutted, no effort what-so-ever has been made by Coillte to address the issue IMO.

Kat1170

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Forests are not and should not be there solely to chop down. They are there for the well being of the environment and biodiversity.

Don't think you will see much biodiversity in a one tree type forest.

Macy0161

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Forests are not and should not be there solely to chop down. They are there for the well being of the environment and biodiversity, enjoyment of the population and O2 production and at only 7% of the country we have far far to little to be treating as a commercial product.

I have no issue with correctly managed forestry operations but Coillte could certainly take a leaf out of Sweden's book on how to manage the place.

I really don't know enough about forest management to comment too much on whether they are doing it right. However leaving that aside, it appears to me it's another one of those things that we need to decide whether Coillte is a commercial company or operating for the greater good.

Whatever hope now, there's little hope if/when it's privatised.

Alun

The word I got from someone who used to work for Coillte is that selective felling as practiced in, for example, Sweden, wouldn't work in many forestry plantations here. The reason apparently is that growing conditions here consist of a relatively thin layer of soil on top of a rocky sub layer, which means that the root systems are relatively shallow.If you were to fell selectively, and consequently thin out an area of forestry too much, the wind would get in between them and the whole lot would get blown down in the next winter storm.

Having said that, I've seen other places in the UK for example where they've clear felled areas, and it doesn't look anywhere near as messy and almost post-apocalyptic as it does here when the felling contractors have been in. I don't know if Coillte do any QC on contractors' work, but it sure doesn't look like it to me.

Cookie_Monster

Alun wrote: »

The word I got from someone who used to work for Coillte is that selective felling as practiced in, for example, Sweden, wouldn't work in many forestry plantations here. The reason apparently is that growing conditions here consist of a relatively thin layer of soil on top of a rocky sub layer,

This is a major problem once everything is chopped down though. This thin layer is eroded by rain washing it away as there is nothing left to help soak up the water. Slope become poorer, less trees can grow and we're left with an ugly mess for decades.

Selective felling would greatly aid reduce this or alternativly re planting quickly (<3 years or so) once areas have been felled would help also. but currently its just chop them down and leave the root system and trunk in place which take a decade to rot away leaving enough space for younger trees to root and grow...

Alun

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

This is a major problem once everything is chopped down though. This thin layer is eroded by rain washing it away as there is nothing left to help soak up the water. Slope become poorer, less trees can grow and we're left with an ugly mess for decades.

True, there are areas where this appears to be a problem, namely along the northern side of the road to Baravore. Some nasty landslides along there in recent times.

Selective felling would greatly aid reduce this or alternativly re planting quickly (<3 years or so) once areas have been felled would help also. but currently its just chop them down and leave the root system and trunk in place which take decade to rot away leaving enough space for younger trees to root and grow...

In my experience though, they seem to replant most clear felled areas quite quickly, i.e. within weeks not years. The saplings are quite small so can be a bit hard to spot, but they're there, as are the discarded white plastic bags they come in

That's not to say that there aren't areas where they decide, for whatever reason, not to replant at all. Maybe because of poor yields, poor accessibility or bad quality timber, I don't know.

Some of the worst examples I've seen recently has been over in West Wicklow (to the west of Lobawn IIRC.) I don't know what was planted there, but they look like some kind of pine, maybe even a scots pine, but presumably because of conditions they haven't grown into proper free standing trees, but more a twisted, contorted mess of bushy shrubs barely more than 5m high. It would be clear to anybody that this was some kind of failed experiment, but no, they went ahead and 'felled' them anyway. I'd say they actually left half the 'trees' still in the ground, 'felled' the other half, and left half of them abandoned in the middle of the forest rather than drag them out, because they were just worthless. The mess created by the felling machines is unbelievable, and it's clear that they were entirely unsuitable to get through the terrain and the knotted mess of trees. They could have achieved a much cleaner result with a gang of men with chainsaws if they really felt the job was worth doing.

Wailin

I know this is an oldish post but i felt i had to post also. I went camping there a week ago with my son and nephew, both 9. I wanted to let them experience camping in wild country as opposed to a campsite. We camped in the ballinafunshoge recreation area because further up by the hostel was pretty disgusting. Where we camped was disgusting also with excrement apparent, abandoned fires and bags of rubbish piled near the entrance. I decided not to cancel because we drove a long way, and set up tent. About 100 yards further on there was people camping also, at 1st it was only a couple but later on a gang came along and made all sorts of noise, shouting, loud music etc. At around 3 they started driving small sports cars up the road at speed and hand brake skids all over the place, revving the engine and driving up into were we camped doing more hand brake skids. What an absolute nightmare it was and i felt very uncomfortable with the two young lads. How the people living in the valley can put up with this is beyond me, the place is destroyed and this needs to be stopped now. How hard is it to ban camping here? Granted it would mean we wouldn't have been able to camp but the place is a mess. The 2 lads helped me tidy up next morning and we left no trace.

uberalles

So sad to be reading this. Litter bugs really get my goat.

loobylou

Not sure it would stop them, but maybe time to stop vehicular access over the ford.

recedite

loobylou wrote: »

time to stop vehicular access over the ford.

A standard forestry padlocked steel bar put in there would be a good start. It would certainly make camping/picnicking beyond the ford safer and more peaceful. No need for hikers to drive beyond the car park there anyway.

Alun

I agree, plus it's always surprised me how far up the network of tracks you can drive without encountering a barrier, not only just over the ford, but almost right up to the start of the route up Fraughan Rock Glen, so stopping traffic going over the ford would be a good start, although it wouldn't stop a lot of people I fear. Plus the Baravore car park would become ripe pickings for the car thieves at night.