Substitute teaching in Irish

pog it

Hey all, would be really grateful for any advice.
I've got a B.A and a H.Dip in a postgraduate related to my degree subject (not the teaching H.dip) and I'm looking to pick up some subbing work teaching Irish and English, or preferably just Irish. I know the curriculum inside out and would do a really good job, but it's not something I want to do long-term: just over the next year. I did it for just a week a few years ago after college but I knew the principal there and it just came about by chance.

I was thinking of sending off my CV and cover letter to secondary schools in my area but I was wondering is there another more formal way to let school principals know you are available? I just wonder would a random CV and letter be effective at all, or how to teachers go about this normally?

Also... would anyone know generally if Irish is a subject that has more than enough able/qualified teachers, or if there is a shortage here compared with other subjects?

Would appreciate any tips and advice! Thanks a mil.

dory

Looks on the usual teacher sites, educationposts and teachingcareers.
I got a few weeks subbing last year from those.
As hard as it is, going in and asking to speak to the principal usually works best.
A principal once told me Irish and French were the two hardest subjects to get teachers for.

looksee

There may be a Teacher Centre in your area - principals phone them and they find a suitable sub from their contacts - often on a daily basis.

pog it

Thanks a mil to you both. Am applying direct and going into schools this week to increase my chances.

And definitely Irish seems to be one of the hardest vacancies to fill going by the job advertisements so I'm glad I ain't doing anyone out of a job

gaeilgegrinds1

My maternity leave this year was almost impossible to fill with Irish. Everyone seemed to have work. So there is definately a short of Irish teachers. Depends on second subject a lot too though.

pog it

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

My maternity leave this year was almost impossible to fill with Irish. Everyone seemed to have work. So there is definately a short of Irish teachers. Depends on second subject a lot too though.

My degree is in English and I did French for first year in university but I wouldn't feel right about teaching either. I'm aiming for Irish on its own as it's my passion (my main hobby too!) and I'll be happy with even 10-20 hours a week. Looking forward to it and so hoping it works out. Chuile shórt crosáilte Feel like I'll be able to really make a difference and if only for one year, I don't think I can burn out!

spurious

pog it wrote: »

I'll be happy with even 10-20 hours a week.

Don't set your heart on getting so many hours.
Even in Irish, things are tight.

gaeilgegrinds1

Honestly thought you meant 4 or 6 hours, most fully qualified teachers don't get full hours starting, you don't have a degree in Irish though so why should you be let teach it? I'm fluent in German and quite passionate about Italian but I couldn't teach them.

pog it

spurious wrote: »

Don't set your heart on getting so many hours.
Even in Irish, things are tight.

10-20 hours is the lowest amount per week I need, even if I am covering more than one school. But ideally I'd like to stick to one school and get to know the students better that way. From advice I have been given, I need to capitalise on my strengths and they are what will get me a job. I am passionate, I love to help people, and I can teach. I've done it before and I was good at it. I was landed in at the same week of the French orals and I can't remember what words they used but one of the students told me that I had really made a difference for one of the other students who had very little self-belief before I got there!

But yeah.. I'm doing it all this week so I have to be 100% optimistic. Let the fall-out not live up to that but for now I'm aiming for the most I can get.

pog it

gaeilgegrinds1 wrote: »

Honestly thought you meant 4 or 6 hours, most fully qualified teachers don't get full hours starting, you don't have a degree in Irish though so why should you be let teach it? I'm fluent in German and quite passionate about Italian but I couldn't teach them.

Why should I be let teach it? The difference between your German and my Irish is I know I can teach Irish. I learned it from native speakers, working in the Gaeltacht, and a lot of self-study. I learned grammar by myself which I believe is a huge advantage when it comes to teaching grammar.

Also I have probably read more Irish language literature than any degree/H.dip teacher too. I also know two Irish teachers and my Irish is ahead of theirs. They have degree in Irish and a H.dip.

I wouldn't do it if I didn't think I'd be the best. I'm motivated by being amongst the best at what I do.

spurious

You'll be unlikely to get regular hours if you're not qualified. You might get some subbing hours on a day by day basis, but that could be two hours today, none till Thursday and four hours Friday, getting classes sometimes with a few minutes' notice. The people who get most hours are the ones who come in every morning on spec.

It's soul-destroying but most of us have been there, before we got the regular part-time hours, before we got the CID, or for those of us lucky (and old) enough, before we got the permanent job.

Terri26

have you any qualifaction in Irish as your post seems to imply you have English and first year French. There is no school who would/should take you on if your highest award is the leaving cert. One exception may be if you are from a gaeltacht area but even then it's doubtful. You can def sub with a degree but dount you could apply for an actual Irish job if a school is stuck you might get lucky

pog it

Terri26 wrote: »

have you any qualifaction in Irish as your post seems to imply you have English and first year French. There is no school who would/should take you on if your highest award is the leaving cert. One exception may be if you are from a gaeltacht area but even then it's doubtful. You can def sub with a degree but dount you could apply for an actual Irish job if a school is stuck you might get lucky

Yes I have B.A in English and archaeology. I would not teach English as I really dislike the criteria used by examiners for marking English exams and I am not really interested in teaching English for that reason. I did consider it, but no, I'm not going to do it.

Regards Irish not being one of my degree subjects I'm not going to repeat myself but I know what standard you get with a subject taken to degree level, and my Irish is past that standard even.

I wouldn't teach French as I don't meet degree level standards and what I had even is rusty. So you see I'm not hawkishly offering any ould subject I have a bit of knowledge in..

gaeilgebeo

pog it wrote: »

Why should I be let teach it? The difference between your German and my Irish is I know I can teach Irish. I learned it from native speakers, working in the Gaeltacht, and a lot of self-study. I learned grammar by myself which I believe is a huge advantage when it comes to teaching grammar.

Also I have probably read more Irish language literature than any degree/H.dip teacher too. I also know two Irish teachers and my Irish is ahead of theirs. They have degree in Irish and a H.dip.

I wouldn't do it if I didn't think I'd be the best. I'm motivated by being amongst the best at what I do.

Regardless of how much Irish literature you've read or how much you've worked in the Gaeltacht, you are not a qualified Irish teacher and will not be recognised as one. I also wouldn't dismiss the teaching qualification because you're "good at Irish" and "your Irish is ahead of two Irish teachers you know". I would strongly advise you not to go into any school with that attitude.

If you are so passionate and brilliant at Irish, do go back and qualify to teach it. In the meantime, you may get some subbing work in schools.
Go n-éirí leat.

pog it

gaeilgebeo wrote: »

Regardless of how much Irish literature you've read or how much you've worked in the Gaeltacht, you are not a qualified Irish teacher and will not be recognised as one. I also wouldn't dismiss the teaching qualification because you're "good at Irish" and "your Irish is ahead of two Irish teachers you know". I would strongly advise you not to go into any school with that attitude.

If you are so passionate and brilliant at Irish, do go back and qualify to teach it. In the meantime, you may get some subbing work in schools.
Go n-éirí leat.

Tuige nach bhfuil dearcadh níos dearfaí agat?

I'm not interested in being qualified on a piece of paper. I have all the requirements to be an excellent teacher.

Also I'm not going to schools with any kind of "attitude". I'm being upfront about my ability in Irish and what I can teach the students. Teaching is about serving students, not waving a h.dip piece of paper around. A H.dip that most teachers will tell you isn't that great.

Terri26

I am really sorry to say this and avoided saying this in my previous post but you really need to lose the attitude. Yes, your Irish may be better than someone with a degree and h.dip but the reality is it doesn't matter. You will be asked what you got in your subject at degree level and some schools wouldn't even consider someone without at least a 2.1.
Like I said and I will repeat myself schools will let you sub as you have a degree and if you have a degree you can sub in a school if they are stuck but not in particular a subject you are not qualified to teach. However, if you get to know a school/principal they might allow you to teach Irish in the school. If a school has 20 hours of Irish available it is highly unlikely you would be offered it as even someone with a pass degree in Irish would be more entitled to it than you.
We are being positive to you and that was quite rude of you to say opposite. You will be lucky to get subbing hours full stop never mind in a subject you are not entitled to teach. It's great you are so positive about Irish but you need a reality check and take on the advise being given to you.

Terri26

Also just so you know must of us are not referring to a h.dip "that most teachers will tell you isn't that great" we are talking about the actual degree.

Rosita

pog it wrote: »

I'm not interested in being qualified on a piece of paper. I have all the requirements to be an excellent teacher.

Are you sure this is not a wind-up?

Being qualified on a piece of paper is a basic requirement to be any kind of teacher, good, bad or indifferent. How else can someone objectively demonstrate their ability?

If you are not interested in studying the subject you are proposing to teach it's hard to see a future in it.

gaeilgebeo

pog it wrote: »

Tuige nach bhfuil dearcadh níos dearfaí agat?

I'm not interested in being qualified on a piece of paper. I have all the requirements to be an excellent teacher.

Also I'm not going to schools with any kind of "attitude". I'm being upfront about my ability in Irish and what I can teach the students. Teaching is about serving students, not waving a h.dip piece of paper around. A H.dip that most teachers will tell you isn't that great.

So basically, we should scrap the teaching qualification and sure if you're interested in a subject area and are "good" at it, you are then able to teach it?

I am well aware of what teaching is about, I've been teaching Irish for many years, and have never "waved" my hdip around. I also don't believe the hdip is without its faults, however I don't think your flippant attitude about not needing to be qualified with a degree nevermind the hdip, will be appreciated by qualified teachers who've worked and studied very hard to attain qualifications. Anyway, we can go round in circles with this but at the end of the day the teaching council won't recognise you as a qualified Irish teacher.

You may however get subbing in schools, and I really hope you do as you seem to be enthusiastic about it .:)

Ellen33

You can't teach a subject just because it's your hobby; if that was the case people could go into schools and teach whatever they wanted or claimed to be good at. What is most important is the students and the level of education they will receive; that is why you need to be qualified to teach. You wouldn't go to a doctor who was in the job just because he or she was "good at biology".

pog it

Sorry if I'm coming across as having an attitude problem! I honestly don't I've just been defensive after somebody said why should I be let teach Irish.

Also ya know I have to be positive and optimistic as I realise it's going to be hard since I'm not "qualified" (which we have established here I think!)

I guess what I'm saying it that though I am not qualified on paper, I am more than capable of doing a really good job and hopefully somebody out there takes my word for it. I've a 2.1 in my degree and 1.1 in my postgrad so I hope that will help illustrate to principals etc. that I am able to properly judge my own standard in a subject.

The ideal scenario is that a school who cannot find an Irish teacher at all at all takes me on. That way it's win win for everyone

pog it

Rosita wrote: »

Are you sure this is not a wind-up?

If you are not interested in studying the subject you are proposing to teach it's hard to see a future in it.

Not interested in studying the subject? Now where, in the name of God, are you getting that out of????????????????????????

I think I've explained that I am fluent in Irish through self-study. Please at least read my posts before you criticise me.

LutherBlissett

Edit: answered my own question!

Also, don't think you're qualified to teach simply because you have a high standard in a particular subject. Schools should have people who have gone through the proper channels - it's only fair on the students who have to be taught by those the school employ. A deep knowledge of a subject does not guarantee being able to teach it. Take for example a college lecturer - I know of some who have an excellent grasp of their area of academia, however they would be utterly unable to convey it to second level students.

Second edit: with regard to the post below...the doctor analogy still stands in my judgment. You say the that it's the students that matter, Ellen33 might say that similarly, it's the hypothetical doctor's patients that matter - a person depending on another for a vital service such as health or education surely has the right to see that the teacher or doctor's ability has been put to an official test, and has been deemed requisite to constitute competency.

While you may have little time for paper qualifications pog it, the state holds them paramount for the reason that to obtain them, you must have proven competency. Without undertaking a "paper qualification", you have never had to face the same test as others who have secured the qualification. What right do you have to jump them in the employment queue? Presuming that they also have a HDip/PGDE, they have been assessed as a competent teacher, and if they have a BA in Irish, one suitable for delivering that subject. In terms of teaching Irish, which is the crucial thing for students, and not just knowing Irish, they rank ahead of you.

pog it

Ellen33 wrote: »

You can't teach a subject just because it's your hobby; if that was the case people could go into schools and teach whatever they wanted or claimed to be good at. What is most important is the students and the level of education they will receive; that is why you need to be qualified to teach. You wouldn't go to a doctor who was in the job just because he or she was "good at biology".

Obviously the students are what matters. Sorry to be rude, but since you're going to treat me condescendingly you've handed me the right to be likewise.

Were you or are you incapable of posting something more informed?

And if you aren't, then what piece of paper would ever make you qualified to teach others when you operate at that level of mundaneness?

Rosita

pog it wrote: »

Not interested in studying the subject? Now where, in the name of God, are you getting that out of????????????????????????

I think I've explained that I am fluent in Irish through self-study. Please at least read my posts before you criticise me.

I'm not criticising you at all, just making an observation.

"Where in the name of God am I getting that out of?" This remark - "I'm not interested in being qualified on a piece of paper".

The piece of paper is merely evidence that you have studied a subject. I would readily accept anecdotal evidence from any relaible source but I would suggest you'll struggle to get jobs if you are unwilling to study formally.

Ellen33

All we are saying is a good knowledge of a subject or fluency is not enough to teach the subject over teachers who are qualified no matter how good you are.

You are unable to comment on what would enable me to teach as I'm not aiming to teach anything I am unqualified in although I do have first year Irish in my degree as it happens

pog it

LutherBlissett wrote: »

So...I could be reading this thread wrongly (cursory glance is all I had time to give), but it seems to imply you can sub a subject without having a degree in it. Is this true?

Also, don't think you're qualified to teach simply because you have a high standard in a particular subject. Schools should have people who have gone through the proper channels - it's only fair on the students who have to be taught by those the school employ. A deep knowledge of a subject does not guarantee being able to teach it. Take for example a college lecturer - I know of some who have an excellent grasp of their area of academia, however they would be utterly unable to convey it to second level students.

1. Read the entire thread, it does not imply anyone can teach anything without a degree

2. "a deep knowledge of a subject does not guarantee being able to teach it"

Exactly. Just as a H.dip in teaching does not guarantee a person can teach a subject well either.


What you need is deep knowledge of the subject and syllabus, and an aptitude for teaching. Enthusiasm and passion help also. You need to be able to realise a student's full potential. You need to help them get the highest mark possible in the exam. If possible, teach or get across the joy of learning that subject.

You either have the ability to be really good at it, or you don't. I think we all saw examples of good and bad teachers through our own experiences in school.

LutherBlissett

Pog It, see my edited post above.

Ellen33

LutherBlissett I totally agree with you

Toto Wolfcastle

pog it wrote: »

Enthusiasm and passion help also. You need to be able to realise a student's full potential. You need to help them get the highest mark possible in the exam. If possible, teach or get across the joy of learning that subject.

You either have the ability to be really good at it, or you don't. I think we all saw examples of good and bad teachers through our own experiences in school.

Having taught for a week a few years ago after college you cannot really know whether you have the ability to teach or not.

It's true that someone with a HDip might not end up being a good teacher, but at least they have gone through the proper channels. You are claiming that you are a good teacher based on what? A week's worth of subbing? Your Irish may be excellent, and that's a great thing, but that doesn't make you a good teacher.

I hope that if you do get subbing work that you are a good teacher.

pog it

janeybabe wrote: »

Having taught for a week a few years ago after college you cannot really know whether you have the ability to teach or not.

It's true that someone with a HDip might not end up being a good teacher, but at least they have gone through the proper channels. You are claiming that you are a good teacher based on what? A week's worth of subbing? Your Irish may be excellent, and that's a great thing, but that doesn't make you a good teacher.

I hope that if you do get subbing work that you are a good teacher.

I wouldn't do it if I didn't think or know that I would be good. But I've already stated that.

Anyway I'm not going to argue this further except to say that if I did want to teach for the next 30 years I would go for the H.dip, but as it stands I want to do it for one year only, and make a massive contribution to society and those students during that year.



P.S. It's a damn shame that bench-marking didn't come in to this country and sort the good from the bad.

spurious

It's more of a shame I didn't lock this earlier.
Somebody is either a troll or in for a very rude awakening in the real world of teaching.