Any correlation between analogue and DTT reception?

almighty1

Before I invest in anything DTT related e.g. aerial, MPEG4 TV or decoder I have a quick question about what sort of signal I should receive.

On my UHF rabbits ears Im picking up the analogue stuff from Mount Leinster (I dont have a direct line of site to Mt Leinster)

RTE1 - Decent
RTE2 - Very good
TV3 - Very Poor
TNAG - Chronic

So my question is, is it possible to forecast what sort of DTT reception I will get loosely based on my analogue reception - is their any correlation between them based on the home user reception?

watty

Also wait till one has a "Saorview" sticker.

If you have good Analogue then mostly DTT is very likely perfect.
If you have poor Analogue then DTT might be ok or you might need an aerial

If you can get TG4 then it's likely you will get DTT.

If you are able to get TG4 at all (no matter how bad) on a set-top aerial, then get a real aerial. Try first in attic/loft and then if not perfect then outdoor installation.

About 95% of people will get perfect DTT. But unless you have NO TV at all, don't buy for DTT yet. Soft launch is 31st Oct 2010. You will have substantial "peace of mind" and likely saving waiting till Mid 2011. There is NO TV3 on the DTT tests. No-one knows if TV3 will be on DTT before full Public Launch in mid 2011.

No-one knows fully the issues of non-Saorview certified Setbox or TV, except that to ensure pictures at all times you need
DVB-t or DVB-t2
HD even if you don't have HD set (it will downsample)
MPEG4
Probably bad idea not to have Nordig/RTENL spec MHEG5.
Possibly AAC sound. Basic MP2 sound may not be enough.
See
http://www.techtir.ie/watty/soartv (lists of links to boards.ie posts)
and
http://www.techtir.ie/isaa/saorsat_saorview

almighty1

Thats for that Watty.

If you were a betting man would you think that a Freesat/Saorview combo box would appear on the market in the next 12 months?

watty

Satellite / DTT yes,
Actual Freesat logo + Actual Soarview Logo? Hard to say. Maybe by 2013. Don't forget initially there will be little rush to convert.

Only 20% of people even really need to worry, and the longer you leave it the cheaper gear is and at the last 6 months there will be various subsidies depending on your circumstances.

Ask me again this time next year after Soarsat is live.

darth_maul

watty wrote: »

If you can get TG4 then it's likely you will get DTT.

Why are ye using TG4 as a indicator of DTT reception, would TV3 reception not be a better indicator as it is only carried on the main transmitters which currently (bar 1 or 2 relays) are the only ones carrying DTT,
TG4 is carried on all Relays TV3 is not,

Now I understand that TG4 reception indicates that a UHF antenna is being used, but it is no indication of whether DTT reception is available or not unless the poster knows what transmitter he/she is recieving those channels from.

A better indicator would be if they posted what channels/frequencies thay are receiving all the Irish stations,

I see the poster is talking about receiving RTE 1 And RTE 2 on a UHF aerial from Mount Leinster, they are not transmitted on UHF from Mount Leinster. I would guess you are probably picking these up from a local relay, (channel frequencies would tell)

RTENL transmitter Frequencies

watty

TG4 is similar coverage on Analogue to envisaged DTT (95%)
TV3 is on only 80% Many people will get DTT that can't get TV3

There will be 51 DTT transmitters. Most will give better reception and some better coverage that the equivalent TG4 Analogue sites. Some DTT sites are new as the Analogue site may have been chosen for ESB availability rather than best site.

darth_maul

watty wrote: »

TG4 is similar coverage on Analogue to envisaged DTT (95%)
TV3 is on only 80% Many people will get DTT that can't get TV3

There will be 51 DTT transmitters. Most will give better reception and some better coverage that the equivalent TG4 Analogue sites. Some DTT sites are new as the Analogue site may have been chosen for ESB availability rather than best site.

Thanks for that Watty,
So basically TV3 would give a better current indication of DTT reception and TG4 would give a better indication of future coverage.


Any Idea of when these extra sites will go live for DTT, Has that list been finalised, e.g Arainn Mhór was originally muted as an early adopter then was removed from a recent list. (apparently equipment sourced for there was used else where), Also have you a list of the new masts.

Zardoz

Oddly enough I have a good TV3 and TG4 signal on my rabbit ears but the DTT signal is very weak,I barely get a lock on a Sagem Picnic.
I'm on the Mullaghanish transmitter ,DTT is at 474Mhz and TV3 Analogue is at 519Mhz.
I'd have expected a decent DTT signal as my TV3 and TG4 are very good ?

watty

Are you use an amplified Set-top aerial? The amplifier often distorts the signal. DTT can't cope with distortion or amplifier overload at all.

Try this style with no amp

From €8
Often works even better in the attic.


The Picnic will be not much use soon.

Zardoz

watty wrote: »

Are you use an amplified Set-top aerial?

The Picnic will be not much use soon.

No I am using this type

I'm using it in a second tv room.
I have a proper UHF contract aerial in the attic but I cant wire it into the room with the rabbit ears due to logistics.
Why will the Picnic box be no good anymore ,is it because of the RTE2 HD channel ?
I dont have a HD tv so I only need the SD channels ,if that is the reason.
Where would I get one of those aerials for 8 euro ?

watty

That's a VHF only aerial. Useless for UHF (DTT, TV3, TG4)

Real HD receivers downsample to the SCART for ordinary TVs.

I don't think there is space for a SEPARATE RTE2 HD. The RTENL Soarview spec calls for an HD receiver minimum. When RTE2 goes to HD part time you will get no video. In 2011/2012 when 2nd mux starts then RTE1 and RTE2 can be HD at same time and more often.

There is no need nor space to simulcast SD and HD versions of RTE as the "proper" spec box will convert HD for those without an HDTV.

Zardoz

watty wrote: »

That's a VHF only aerial. Useless for UHF (DTT, TV3, TG4)

Real HD receivers downsample to the SCART for ordinary TVs.

I don't think there is space for a SEPARATE RTE2 HD. The RTENL Soarview spec calls for an HD receiver minimum. When RTE2 goes to HD part time you will get no video. In 2011/2012 when 2nd mux starts then RTE1 and RTE2 can be HD at same time and more often.

There is no need nor space to simulcast SD and HD versions of RTE as the "proper" spec box will convert HD for those without an HDTV.

Thanks Watty I understand now.
Ah well I only paid 30 euro for the Picnic box so its not a big loss.
Thats odd that the aerial I have is VHF only as it picks up TV3 and Tg4 and the signal is good, stereo and clear picture.
I'll have to get one like the one you recommended.

watty

If the signal is good enough a small screwdriver in the aerial socket works

STB

Zardoz. Buy a small booster for that indoor aerial. I have tried a lot and found the "Philex SLX1 Aerial amplifier" VERY effective (I have tried about 10 aerials and various combinations). Costs 10-15 euro on ebay.



Then you need 2 lengths of coax cable extenders male to female sockets. Typically the small indoor aerial only has a small lead on it so you need to extend it to get it near the window. The other extender cable goes from your TV to the TV out on your amplifier. OR You could also buy a TV extension kit in power city for about a tenner and make up the cables.

So the aerial cable goes into the Philex and then the Philex is connected to the Tv via the other cable (the philex pic above shows you). The philex has a variable gain on it - turn it up full whack - it only does 14db but is quite effective you will notice immediately).

Do not connect one to an already powered aerial obviously. It smooths out the signal and the gain is adjustable.

The Cush

darth_maul wrote: »

Any Idea of when these extra sites will go live for DTT, Has that list been finalised, e.g Arainn Mhór was originally muted as an early adopter then was removed from a recent list. (apparently equipment sourced for there was used else where), Also have you a list of the new masts.

Posted similar reply two weeks ago.

Neither RTÉNL nor the Dept have made available a complete list of the 51 sites to be upgraded to DTT.

The only list we have is the a two and half year old RTÉNL 53 site plan. If this is still current which two sites could be dropped, the ones with the lowest estimated population coverage at that time were Iorras (0.02%), Westport & Cahir (0.09%), Kinsale (0.10%).

I assume the 51 site list will be included in the information campaign which should hopefully begin next month.

almighty1

watty wrote: »

Ask me again this time next year after Soarsat is live.

Thanks watty
If Saorsat is launched on kasat at 13e then will a dish pointed at Astra2 pick up saorsat or will we need a motorised/2nd dish?

almighty1

Nevermind, you already answered the question in another post

watty wrote: »

1/ There is a one dish rule. But it's possible to do 13E and 28E on one dish
2/ Sky boxes don't do Diseqc. FTA boxes do. Some Freesat do.
3/ Only HD receivers will work. It will be DVB-S2, regular FTA is only DVB-s

watty

almighty1 wrote: »

Thanks watty
If Saorsat is launched on kasat at 13e then will a dish pointed at Astra2 pick up saorsat or will we need a motorised/2nd dish?

You can't use an existing Sky dish, nor add a 2nd suitable Ka Band LNBF to a smaller dish. A separate "dish" is best solution, but it's not likely to be counted as a dish. See pictures.

Kasat will be 9E. The 13E confusion is due to demo 13E Ku Hotbird + 9E ka Kasat "mockup" by Eutelsat and the fact a preliminary Tooway service is @ 13E

Since it's a hot spot on Ireland and a dish gives nearly twice the signal on Ka band for same size, then your "2nd dish" if needed doesn't need to look like a dish.


Foreground is a 44cm boxed dish. There is no arm at front.

Most people (92% to 97%) will get a PERFECT DTT signal via a suitable aerial.


Compare MMDS dish, possible Kasat @ 9E "dish" (no arm is used!) for Saorsat and typical Grid aerial suitable for 85% to 90% of DTT (Saorview).

An 80cm or 90cm regular fixed dish can probably receive Freesat @28E and Saorsat @9E with maybe option of 19E & 13E, or 16E & 23.5E also, using multiple LNBs and bar across front of dish.

If you already have a Sky/Freesat dish best to add TV aerial or "boxed" 44cm dish that wouldn't be counted by awkward Councils as an extra dish. They don't count "boxed" aerials/dishes for Broadband wireless, MMDS dishes or Grid aerials.

The 44cm "boxed" dish is plastic with a real metal dish inside. The LNBF fits in a hole at the back instead of an arm and a secondary reflector on inside of front makes it work. Cassegrain design. These do actually work in London/Essex/South East England, but are much too small for Sky/Freesat here.