Promoting

Zascar

I can't remember having a thread about this before, but I'd be really interested to hear people's opinions. It's no secret that promoting a club night in Dublin in the current climate, is a very tough gig. I've been talking to a number of people of late and there are not too many people who are finding it easy. The Dublin club scene has gone through some major changes in the 10+ years I've been in it (wow that makes me seem old) - it has gone up and down and kinda all over the place I remember when I was in college - everywhere was packed. You would have serious difficulty getting in to some clubs, with massive queues outside most of the main ones. Remember the redbox queues all the way up to the Odeon? Long gone are the days!

I was chatting to one of the guys who does a night in TP and he said that if you can promote successfully in Dublin you can do it anywhere in the world. We seem to have a very unusual little microclimate here. I even know people who are bringing in big names, getting decent numbers but Still loosing money. Back 5+ years ago all you could do was dish out flyers, put up posters, and use word of mouth. Now you have the wonderful tools of the internet, facebook and email lists, spreading the word far and wide, but your message be getting diluted by the dozens of other nights competing for attention.

Will the good old days ever return? What is it like in other cities? What have your experiences been like, and what works and what doesn't?

Pandoras Twist

Book Scot Project. Seems to work for everyone else.

jtsuited

Most nights in Dublin are started because the promoters can't get dj gigs themselves.

Not because there is a demand for it, but because they want to be playing in public and getting in 'the game'.

So the market is simply massively oversaturated by dj's who are promoters (supply) and non-dj punters who actually are into the music are a rarity (demand).

It's one of the results of technology etc.
Anyone can start djing nowadays for little or no financial cost to themselves, and soon they want gigs, can't get any, so start their own night. Also modern djing requires hardly any time commitment too, so everybody and their dog is a dj.
This has just led to a surplus of dj's who can't get gigs, start their own night and hence attempt to take a slice out of a cake which is already sliced far far far far too much.

Even with international guests, there are FAR too many nights to choose from on any given night.
So rather than have 2 jam packed clubs, we have 5 half full venues.

The Twisted Pepper is a completely different beast though, and one which I hope continues to thrive in the way it has done so up until now.

dubsbhoy

Most pubs are dead in Dublin compared to 10 years ago, never mind the club scene

The amount of house genres can't of helped either, everything is pigeon holed way too much which i think confuses punters and club owners. Old School nights seem to be getting more and more popular, i know tons of 18-21 year olds who are obsessed with old school house music when the should be riding the wave of whats ever doing the rounds now, i think for a normal house music fan they want it kept simple, its djs and producers that like it complicated which has reduced the size of the horde.

or maybe i'm just talking out of my arse :cool:

Android 666

Could a lot of it have to do with the continuing sub-division of dance music in an ever increasing number of micro genres which further decreases your target market making it harder for you to make any funds? Just curious about that. Although jt seems to have it on the button.

Just wondering are there any mad, up for anything nights left on in Dublin anymore.

lardossan

don't share the big appreciation with TP, at their nights they just book the same safe Berghain/Theo Parrish well established names day in day out, when they want something truly undeground they rely on the smaller promos coz they don't have the balls to risk it and then don't help these small promoters to promote the night with flyers, posters, just sit on their arses and moan if they don't make enough money.

Promoting underground artists, big or small still takes a lot of work, cultivating a crowd, making sure the venue is always tip top and the atmosphere is there, which you get from selecting the crowd, making some events tickets only, create a mystic around it, pick unusual locations. Very few promoters do this, dreaming of the halcion days of just sitting on your arse and waiting for the people to drop in are long gone, as you say there's plenty of competion, you gotta build your edge. my .2 cents.

Zascar

Hahahahaahaha


http://www.djtechtools.com/2010/08/09/self-promotion-tools-for-djs/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+djtechtools+(djtechtools.com)&utm_content=Google+International

electrogrimey

jtsuited wrote: »

Most nights in Dublin are started because the promoters can't get dj gigs themselves.

Not because there is a demand for it, but because they want to be playing in public and getting in 'the game'.

So the market is simply massively oversaturated by dj's who are promoters (supply) and non-dj punters who actually are into the music are a rarity (demand).

It's one of the results of technology etc.
Anyone can start djing nowadays for little or no financial cost to themselves, and soon they want gigs, can't get any, so start their own night. Also modern djing requires hardly any time commitment too, so everybody and their dog is a dj.
This has just led to a surplus of dj's who can't get gigs, start their own night and hence attempt to take a slice out of a cake which is already sliced far far far far too much.

Even with international guests, there are FAR too many nights to choose from on any given night.
So rather than have 2 jam packed clubs, we have 5 half full venues.

The Twisted Pepper is a completely different beast though, and one which I hope continues to thrive in the way it has done so up until now.

Yep, this. Pretty much spot on.

Like having a blog, running a night is the new 'cool' thing to do, so you have people who have a vague interest in music running nights for pretty much no reason. These nights generally don't bring much of a crowd though, so the don't trouble the better promoters, they just dissolve after a few months to be replaced by someone else just as ****.

jonnny68

dubsbhoy wrote: »

Most pubs are dead in Dublin compared to 10 years ago, never mind the club scene

The amount of house genres can't of helped either, everything is pigeon holed way too much which i think confuses punters and club owners.

what he said;)

jonnny68

Much as i hate to say it but the Dublin club scene has gone extremly stale for the most part, 10/15+ years ago you had about a choice of 10 quality clubs and they would all do well,some might be more full than others but they were all busy, jaysus even the Kitchen of a Tuesday nite used to be packed every week for Genius the seminal Techno nite that ran for a number of years.

I do believe that with so many sub genres people are much fussier than they used to be, as well as that i believe that dance music just isn't half as popular as it once was in Dublin (or indeed Ireland) then you've got the recession as well plus it's so easier to jump on a budget flight to the UK or anywhere in Europe where the clubs wipe the floor with clubs in Ireland and stay open all nite and into the next day.

g5fd6ow0hseima

jonnny68 wrote: »

anywhere in Europe where the clubs wipe the floor with clubs in Ireland and stay open all nite and into the next day.

Exactly. One is best off with saving up and headin over to the UK / continent every so often.

As someone mentioned months back, if the licencing laws were changed to allow the nights to run later, perhaps it could usher a resurgence in interest here.

Actually, why dont some of the smaller promoters look into merging together and throwing fortnightly nights some place? It's better than competing against each other for such small audience

jonnny68

Alaya Bumpy Koala wrote: »

Exactly. One is best off with saving up and headin over to the UK / continent every so often.

As someone mentioned months back, if the licencing laws were changed to allow the nights to run later, perhaps it could usher a resurgence in interest here.

Actually, why dont some of the smaller promoters look into merging together and throwing fortnightly nights some place? It's better than competing against each other for such small audience

that is a great idea actually

speakar007

i have the opportunity to run a club night in dublin but i need to get 5 popular djs who would be interested in playing.

The club has excellent lighting,sound engineer,mixing the whole thing,want to do it in october.

Could be a big thing if i can do well.anyone know any djs,house of trance:rolleyes:

jonnny68

Not that i do be out much thesedays but if i am going out which is usually in Manchester or Leeds im spoiled for choice living here you've always a pick of different quality nights no matter what sound your into although in Leeds House does "rule the roost" as it were,pity Dublin has gone so stale, jaysus i went to an old skool nite in town last Sat as i was home for the weekend and it was a write off hardly anyone there,mind you there was one on the previous sat and i suppose enough is enough.

hans aus dtschl

Why would you pay into a sub standard club when you can stay in a late bar for free til the same closing time?

Thats the situation down here, anyway.

The licensing laws have effectively come close to killing club culture.

electrogrimey

speakar007 wrote: »

i have the opportunity to run a club night in dublin but i need to get 5 popular djs who would be interested in playing.

The club has excellent lighting,sound engineer,mixing the whole thing,want to do it in october.

Could be a big thing if i can do well.anyone know any djs,house of trance:rolleyes:

Not sure how well a trance night would do in a big club, and why do you need 5 DJs? That seems like overkill for resident DJs. 2/3 + guests is all you need.

Executive Steve

jonnny68 wrote: »

pity Dublin has gone so stale, jaysus i went to an old skool nite in town last Sat

And this week's Irony award goes to...

Executive Steve

Too many people have the "build it and they will come" attitude - there's hard ****ing work involved, and unless you have a following already that you've built up by playing every gig that comes your way for a few years it's unlikely you'll draw much of a sustainable crowd, especially if you're playing minority interest music and you're not booking foreign headliners.

gsparx

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Why would you pay into a sub standard club when you can stay in a late bar for free til the same closing time?

Thats the situation down here, anyway.

The licensing laws have effectively come close to killing club culture.

Completely agree.

jonnny68

Executive Steve wrote: »

And this week's Irony award goes to...

dont be nitpicking my posts son and stop being foolish

pity Dublin has gone so stale, jaysus i went to an old skool nite in town last Sat as i was home for the weekend and it was a write off hardly anyone there

Diego Smartly

Theres a good bit of debate going on over on the bodytonic fourm about the whole promoting thing.

Some of the stuff the BT lads are saying over there is fairly interesting, good bit of insight about things like DJs fees and other real factors.

VinylJunkie

jonnny68 wrote:

pity Dublin has gone so stale, jaysus i went to an old skool nite in town last Sat as i was home for the weekend and it was a write off hardly anyone there

Maybe Celtic were playing a European game that night on TV perhaps??

NotInventedHere

VinylJunkie wrote: »

Maybe Celtic were playing a European game that night on TV perhaps??

Miaow

jonnny68

VinylJunkie wrote: »

Maybe Celtic were playing a European game that night on TV perhaps??

dear me :rolleyes:

Executive Steve

jonnny68 wrote: »

dont be nitpicking my posts son and stop being foolish

And this week's "missing the point completely" award goes to...

Badhabit

Guys if your so smart try to doing yourself ?? Everybody nows time are changed and its hard for everybody to make any money but people are still doing it and keeping this town alive so show a bit of appriciation. I now its not like 5/6 years ago when you have to Q to go to tripod and when you finally when to it place was electric, little was with people like chris liebing or magda rocking the **** from those sweety walls, time are not this same and they wont be but its has to be somebody who will keep reputation of this smalle country going isnt ?? I start doing my nights 5 years ago and i even remember NYE in mcgruders 2008 when nearly 1000 people show up and you couldn feel recesion at all The true is, times are changes and promotors not doing nights cos they cant djing, they doing those nights cos they want to and they dont give a s**t if any of as cares, they doing this cos they want to and thats what makes them happy even nearly everybody loosing money. Scoot project have a scums as a crowd and unfortune this city is cover by those white track suits and airmax runners so if you founding funny being around those off the heads lads go for it and enjoy yourself

electrogrimey

Badhabit wrote: »

Guys if your so smart try to doing yourself ??

A lot of people on this board do, or have.

Badhabit

brilliant so why ur so negative about all the thing and still doing it ??

We should try to found a bit of fun in it are we ??

Its to many promotors in dublin and to many different nights and to many good djs playing at this same time so people are to comfused where to go or if even go again cos probably they see them playing before cos in the past 5/6 years when im here i saw this same people playing in dublin for few different occasions so mayby people are just to spoiled ??

REINCARNATION MUSIC

Alaya Bumpy Koala wrote: »

Exactly. One is best off with saving up and headin over to the UK / continent every so often.

As someone mentioned months back, if the licencing laws were changed to allow the nights to run later, perhaps it could usher a resurgence in interest here.

There are great gigs in the UK, but surely this is the problem here... If everyone has that attitude, how can club-nights survive??
The scene has changed definitely, people are drinking at home and going out later,or even staying in.. and although prices in clubs are coming down, you still have to promote it a hell of a lot.
Im a huge fan of staggered closing times, and think that would make a big difference with the clubbing scene here,people can go out at their leisure and not try and cram all the drink into a few hours, as they would know that there is a long night ahead, and possibly have sobered up a bit before even leaving the venue...
We ran our Reincarnation Weekender in 2008, and we're doing it again this year, with Dj's playing until 8am,,, bars closed at 5am, and not one ounce of trouble did we have, at that hour of the morning clubbers just wanted to go back to their house and chill... still, cant see that happening in Ireland for a long time....

jonnk28

i started clubbing when i was 16 thats 15 years ago i noticed a massive change around 2002 -2003 when coke blew up and everyone was at it back then we lived in monaghan and regularly we had 30 people booking in to jurys to go to the temple theater or the red box all up on a private bus but once the coke came people didnt want to leave the pub some didnt leave their couch for me xtc was a massive part of my clubbing experience back then but as the pills got crap i stopped clubbing for a few years now i can go to a gig have a few beers and enjoy it ,but i do think this is one of the reasons clubbing is not what it once was

bigpink

REINCARNATION MUSIC wrote: »

There are great gigs in the UK, but surely this is the problem here... If everyone has that attitude, how can club-nights survive??
The scene has changed definitely, people are drinking at home and going out later,or even staying in.. and although prices in clubs are coming down, you still have to promote it a hell of a lot.
Im a huge fan of staggered closing times, and think that would make a big difference with the clubbing scene here,people can go out at their leisure and not try and cram all the drink into a few hours, as they would know that there is a long night ahead, and possibly have sobered up a bit before even leaving the venue...
We ran our Reincarnation Weekender in 2008, and we're doing it again this year, with Dj's playing until 8am,,, bars closed at 5am, and not one ounce of trouble did we have, at that hour of the morning clubbers just wanted to go back to their house and chill... still, cant see that happening in Ireland for a long time....

Bars open at 5am and music till 8am how ye get that licence

REINCARNATION MUSIC

Trabolgan have that licence, it would be similar to a Hotel with the residents bar, all our clubbers that weekend will be residents, its weekend tickets only:)

For all Info go to

http://www.weekender2010.reincarnationmusic.com/

Is mise le key

REINCARNATION MUSIC wrote: »

Trabolgan have that licence, it would be similar to a Hotel with the residents bar, all our clubbers that weekend will be residents, its weekend tickets only:)

For all Info go to

http://www.weekender2010.reincarnationmusic.com/

I actually contacted damian back at the end of February with the exact same idea that you have landed for the trabolgan centre only to be told by him that he had begun negotiations already & he would breach the initial terms agreed with you guys 'Reincarnation' if he were to consider what i had put to him, i have to say i was rightly pis.sed off at the time :mad: cause i also seen the trabolgan centre as a winner for a gig like this but now i really hope it all goes off great for ya's & €180 for the entire package is brilliant. Good luck with the weekend;)

REINCARNATION MUSIC

Is mise le key wrote: »

I actually contacted damian back at the end of February with the exact same idea that you have landed for the trabolgan centre only to be told by him that he had begun negotiations already & he would breach the initial terms agreed with you guys 'Reincarnation' if he were to consider what i had put to him, i have to say i was rightly pis.sed off at the time :mad: cause i also seen the trabolgan centre as a winner for a gig like this but now i really hope it all goes off great for ya's & €180 for the entire package is brilliant. Good luck with the weekend;)

Cheers for your best wishes,
Reincarnation Weekender 2010 is definitely shaping up to be Bigger and Better than 2008, looking forward to it :-)

noelo

jonnny68 wrote: »

Much as i hate to say it but the Dublin club scene has gone extremly stale for the most part, 10/15+ years ago you had about a choice of 10 quality clubs and they would all do well,some might be more full than others but they were all busy, jaysus even the Kitchen of a Tuesday nite used to be packed every week for Genius the seminal Techno nite that ran for a number of years.

I do believe that with so many sub genres people are much fussier than they used to be, as well as that i believe that dance music just isn't half as popular as it once was in Dublin (or indeed Ireland) then you've got the recession as well plus it's so easier to jump on a budget flight to the UK or anywhere in Europe where the clubs wipe the floor with clubs in Ireland and stay open all nite and into the next day.

Just pumping this up again!. Yea I reckon your right about heading off for a mad weekend hear and there and I reckon JT's right aswell about Dublin been swamped with self made DJ/promotors running minor night here an there to grab some fame, I am lucky enough to get over to Germany/Austria most months and the techno never stops. But then again they were always the same, non stop all night. I guess were gonna have to wait this one out and keep soldiering on.

Zyts

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

The licensing laws have effectively come close to killing club culture.

Totally disagree.
Can people not still go out and enjoy themselves till 2.30/3.00?
Course they can.
I think only bigger well known clubnights have a chance because they have the cash behind them to book top international DJ's + decent venue.
Smaller venues like The Vaults etc charge ridiculous money to hire (even though they're raking it in with rip off drink prices!)
so less money in the kitty to spend on a decent line up = poor turn out.

Zyts

REINCARNATION MUSIC wrote: »

Cheers for your best wishes,
Reincarnation Weekender 2010 is definitely shaping up to be Bigger and Better than 2008, looking forward to it :-)

Oh and brilliant set up in 2008, see you again this year

Logical Fallacy

Zyts wrote: »

Totally disagree.
Can people not still go out and enjoy themselves till 2.30/3.00?
Course they can.
I think only bigger well known clubnights have a chance because they have the cash behind them to book top international DJ's + decent venue.
Smaller venues like The Vaults etc charge ridiculous money to hire (even though they're raking it in with rip off drink prices!)
so less money in the kitty to spend on a decent line up = poor turn out.

Anyone who books the Vaults is a lunatic in my opinion. The fee for the venue is extortion plain and simple.

Zyts

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Anyone who books the Vaults is a lunatic in my opinion. The fee for the venue is extortion plain and simple.

Just using there as an example for smaller gigs.
Everywhere is crazy money!

Executive Steve

It's one thing to love music, another to be able to play it really well and be an excellent DJ, but the secret of being a promoter is being able to get people to show up to your night every time you do one.

Everyone gets A, less people get B and bugger all people get C.

There's a reason you can count the number of small promotion crews who've kept it going for over three years in this city on one hand; it's blood, sweat, toil, tears, and having to blast the smoke machine on so people dont notice how empty the club is.

Android 666

Executive Steve wrote: »

It's one thing to love music, another to be able to play it really well and be an excellent DJ, but the secret of being a promoter is being able to get people to show up to your night every time you do one.

Everyone gets A, less people get B and bugger all people get C.

There's a reason you can count the number of small promotion crews who've kept it going for over three years in this city on one hand; it's blood, sweat, toil, tears, and having to blast the smoke machine on so people dont notice how empty the club is.

I thought they were blasting out the smoke machine to encourage me to do my Kate Bush 'Wuthering Heights' dance. God, this is embarrassing…

Logical Fallacy

Completely agree with Exec Steve. He's now at the point of having done stuff for a long time, i'm at the other end, just rolling into the area of promoting.

It's nice to think that **** just "happens", but it doesn't. Crowds don't just show up, you earn them over a long period of time. I've had some moments while promoting that were harsh lessons but i hope these will serve me well in the future.

All you can do is stay moving forwards, don't endlessly repeat the same model and stay changing until you grow.

I will add that the idea of doing a local line up sounds great in the old romantic mind, but unless you are doing something off a weekend night, or have some serious sway, it's gonna get stomped by the big bookings on weekends.

The one thing i do like a lot about the Dublin scene with regards to the promoters i have chatted with is there are good lines of dialogue and people are very willing to help each other out. In my experience anyways.

electrogrimey

I'd definitely noticed that, once you get into the scene, all the promoters seem very happy to work together and help eachother out, same as DJs. Obviously there's some bad blood higher between a few companies, but that's it.

Logical Fallacy

electrogrimey wrote: »

I'd definitely noticed that, once you get into the scene, all the promoters seem very happy to work together and help eachother out, same as DJs. Obviously there's some bad blood higher between a few companies, but that's it.

Yeah man, it seems to me once people know you are genuine and in it for the music they will do whatever they can to help you. I do general broken beat stuff (Dubstep,DnB,Jungle,Garage etc) and i've nothing but support from the guys like Reach, Standard, !Kaboogie and them....****ing great scene of people in my opinion.