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So I was just over in the Conspiracy forum...
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09-08-2010 10:43pm#1
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Thats the biggest conspiracy of them all.Karl Hungus wrote: »You think that's bad, try the Christianity forum!
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I lurk a fair few of the debates there and to be honest, outside of the Creationism thread most of the core posters seem fairly level-headed even if I think they're completely wrong.Karl Hungus wrote: »You think that's bad, try the Christianity forum!0 -
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we'llallhavetea wrote: »:eek:
Re: Alternative Flat Earth Theory
In my opinion the biggest and most extraordinary conspiracy of all (which actually runs in parallel with the flat earth debate as Joseph Scaliger was a best friend of Johannes Kepler) is the modification and alteration of world history, that is, of the actual chronology of the events that took place in the past.
Although many exceptional books have been published in the last 200 years pertaining to this subject, the modern development of the study starts with the intriguing paper by R. Newton (1970, 'Ancient Astronomical Observations and the Accelerations of the Earth and Moon', Baltimore, Md., Johns Hopkins Press), in which the author shows that, based on the ancient records of eclipses, the values of the parameter D" (lunar elongation, second derivative) calculated for the period 1200 BC - 1200 AD, cannot be explained in view of current geophysical theories (especially the law of gravity). This paper created quite a stir in the scientific community, and several leading astrophysicists started to actually research how the law of gravity could be modified to account for such incredible figures.
http://www.pereplet.ru/gorm/fomenko/dsec1.gif
In 1980, the well known russian mathematician Anatoly Fomenko realized that a different, and correct, approach, would be to realize that the data for the eclipses during that period were falsified and written down much later, he says in the 15-16th centuries AD. As such, the correct graph would look like this:
http://www.pereplet.ru/gorm/fomenko/dsec2.gif
The original paper by A. Fomenko: http://www.pereplet.ru/gorm/fomenko/dsec.htm
Encouraged by these results, Fomenko demonstrated that the eclipse described by Thucydides (History of the Peloponesian Wars), allegedly having occured in 431 BC, actually happened in the XIth century AD; and he gave other examples, the eclipse in Titus Livy' History which must have taken place at least 1000 years later ( http://books.google.com/books?id=YcjFAV4WZ9MC&printsec=frontcover&dq=fomenko&cd=2#v=onepage&q=&f=false pg. 100 - 110).
Fomenko believes, and certainly does prove, that our history is at most 1000 years old; he started to be criticized by some new chronologists (Gunnar Heinsohn and Christoph Pfister) that he did not go far enough.
The use of tin metallurgy (very complex) in antiquity is another example of current historical chronology mistakes; bronze is an alloy of copper and tin, but the large scale production of tin actually began in the XV-XVIth centuries AD; therefore, the Bronze Age must be dated much closer to our era.
The destruction of Pompeii by the eruption of Vesuvius actually happened in the 18th century, and not in the year 79 AD.
http://www.ilya.it/chrono/images/pom-grazien1.jpg
The Pompeian fresco, the Three Graces resemble perfectly Raphael's Three Graces, and later paintings (del Cossa, Rubens). Raphael did not have a time machine available to take him to the year 78 AD, therefore the logical conclusion is that the actual eruption took place either in the XVI century (the conventional chronology) or even in the late 18th century (radical revised new chronology).
"The use of Renaissance artists of identical details, same colors decisions, motives, general composition plans, the presence in the Pompeian frescoes of the things that emerged in the 15 to 17 century, the presence in Pompeian paintings of genre painting, which is found only in the epoch of the Renaissance, and the presence of some Christian motifs on some frescoes and mosaics suggest that Pompeian frescoes and the works of artists of the Renaissance come from the same people who have lived in the epoch. "Vitas Narvidas," Pompeian Frescoes and the Renaissance: a comparison, "Electronic Almanac" Art & Fact 1 (5), 2007.
I fully believe that the actual duration of our world history is not more than 500 years old (100 years for the antediluvian period, and 400 years for our history); the followers of Akhenaten and the cult of Osiris (that is, Misraim), the later Jesuits and Templars, wrote the Torah and New Testament, introducing the completely false chronologies of Genesis chapters 10 and 11, and much more.
I find it's a great site to flick through because you see some completely insane but obviously very intelligent people surrounded by trolls.
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Yes they areKarl Hungus wrote: »That was a bit of humour on my part, they're not really that nuts. 0 -
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A 'Round Earther' asked the following questions and got the following responses from a 'Flat Earther'
I'm just looking for a flat earth person to explain me these issues I find.
1. When a ship disappears over the horizon, it goes hull first, then mast. Why would this happen if the earth is flat?
Father something is away, smaller it is, smaller it is, more likely something closer and bigger such as waves are blocking it.
2. The earth casts a round shadow on the moon, that's why it has phases. A flat earth would not cast a round shadow, especially because the sun is supposedly directly above it.
Lurk moar. You'll find much information on the anti-moon which is another darker body in the sky that at times, crosses in front of the moon.
3. Columbus knew the earth to be a sphere. He wasn't alone. Anybody of any education, on both sides of the Atlantic, accepted the earth to be a sphere. They accepted this because of two easily observable reasons above.
Argumentum ad populum
4. Ernest Shackleton has crossed Antarctica. If it's just a wall surrounding the disc, how could he have done this?
He never crossed the middle. If you look at any maps that show peoples travels across the Antarctic, they never actually cross through the South Pool. Their paths if compared to a circle, were more like chords, they never actually transverses the middle..
5. The flat earth model given is grossly distorted in the Southern Hemisphere, the continents are much larger than those of the Northern Hemisphere, yet they aren't if any of you has visited these places.
A few FE'ers being unable so far to make a accurate map of the word does not prove it wrong. It only shows that more data must be collected. I very much doubt all of the RE maps when they were first making them were very accurate.
6. By your model, who's to say Antarctica isn't in the center and the North Pole wraps around the world?
I don't really see the relevance of this...
7. Other celestial bodies are round. The sun is, the moon is, the stars are, why should the earth be so special?
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This argument is a non-sequitur. You might as well ask, "How is it that snakes do not have legs, but dogs and cats do?" Snakes are not dogs or cats. The Earth is not a star or the moon. It does not follow that each must have exactly the properties of the others, and no more.
8. Great scientists in history have proven the earth to be round, what makes your ideas somehow better than theirs?
Incorrect. Many great scientists' experiments started with the assumptions that it was round. This question is also completely irrelevant and an appeal to authority.
9. That the earth is round is generally accepted as fact, taught in schools, and treated as common knowledge. So this is just a giant conspiracy?
The people that teach RE are just as fool by the conspiracy as everyone else. Yes, there is a conspiracy though. Lurk moar.
10. If this is, in fact, a conspiracy, what purpose does it serve? Why would the most important people in the world look past hostilities and cultural differences and agree to hide this from the masses? Why is it so important?
There are massive monetary advantages. Lurk moar.
11. If GPSs are a sham, why do they function?
Pseudolites or something of a similar function.
12. People have been in space and have confirmed the earth to be round, what reason would they (and the government) have to lie?
See conspiracy
13. Why reject the obvious and logical in favor of the difficult and vague? If facts exist, why deny them in favor of something only a handful of people believe or care about?
How is it logical too accept something that has been spoon fed to you since birth? You sound like a religious person. I'd prefer to be right, despite how unfashionable it is.
14. So many things have to be explained by either denying their existence or science or claiming they're a conspiracy, why not face these issues with a more thought-out rebuttal?
Reiterate this please, I don't understand the question.
15. When you have to reject so many scientific studies, hard facts, and general truths, and at the same time fabricate so much pseudoscience to even make the theory flirt with plausibility, doesn't it strike you as strange?
I see it as rather the opposite. The RE'ers are the ones who have the pseudoscience.0 -
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OutlawPete wrote: »A 'Round Earther' asked the following questions and got the following responses from a 'Flat Earther'
I'm just looking for a flat earth person to explain me these issues I find.
1. When a ship disappears over the horizon, it goes hull first, then mast. Why would this happen if the earth is flat?
Father something is away, smaller it is, smaller it is, more likely something closer and bigger such as waves are blocking it.
2. The earth casts a round shadow on the moon, that's why it has phases. A flat earth would not cast a round shadow, especially because the sun is supposedly directly above it.
Lurk moar. You'll find much information on the anti-moon which is another darker body in the sky that at times, crosses in front of the moon.
Any time you see "lurk moar", you can be assured that you are dealing with a complete retarded cúnt.0 -
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This discussion has been closed.
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