AIB tracker question

FlashGordon1969

Does anybody have an Aib tracker and know if there is a clause in it which says if you rent out property tracker ends? in other words going from owner occupier to investment property. I cant find original contract/letter.

Paulw

I think there was something in the press a while ago about this. There was something in the contract that said the bank could review the terms of the contract after a set time.

I don't have one of those mortgages though.

alex73

FlashGordon1969 wrote: »

Does anybody have an Aib tracker and know if there is a clause in it which says if you rent out property tracker ends? in other words going from owner occupier to investment property. I cant find original contract/letter.

For sure there is!. if you don't live there anymore then the mortgage is not on your main home.

But you can always rent a room... (and not live in the rest of them )

Senna

It might not have the clause exactly, but its very likely says your mortgage is for a residential property, and by renting it out it wouldn't be a mortgage for a residence, it would be for an investment property, that could be how they will get you.

But if it were me, i'd say feck them, just dont tell the bank.

FlashGordon1969

No offence to any of the posters-but Im looking for someone with an Aib tracker-generalities aren't helpful in a situation where it could get tricky! Need small print. Its also a 1 bed.

Paulw

Then your choices are - go to AIB and request a copy of the original contract, or get a copy from your solicitor from when you bought the premises.

FlashGordon1969

They are pretty standard arrangements which is why Im asking in general. I cant ask the bank as dont want to alert them to fact Im renting it. The solicitor wont have a copy as I switched it to tracker during mortgage and he had nothing to do with that. There must be thousands oif people with Aib trackers who are prob looking over small print anyway given rate rise yesterday.

D3PO

so I take it your still claiming your TRS then ?

So I take it your not paying NPPR tax then ?

So I take it your not paying tax on your rental income then ?

I have an AIB tracker and without directly addressing your question it clearly indicates the terms are valid for owner occupier.

Im not going to post the exact wording because I dont agree with your stance in breaching your contract.

FlashGordon1969

Im tax compliant and never indicated otherwise. Paid my NPPR despite the council being unaware property existed..so please save us the moral posturing-you must be a real joy to live with:rolleyes:

D3PO

FlashGordon1969 wrote: »

Im tax compliant and never indicated otherwise. Paid my NPPR despite the council being unaware property existed..so please save us the moral posturing-you must be a real joy to live with:rolleyes:

if you were tax compliant you would have contacted your bank to advise your not living there and not to deduct tax relief at source.

you have said you havent contacted your bank so therfore you cannot be compliant :rolleyes:

FlashGordon1969

You dont know everything-you dont contact the bank about mortgage interest-you contact the revenue. The revenue then contact the bank. So Im fully tax compliant! I no longer claim interest relief. I even changed the contact address for statements. I just didnt tell them directly-it wouldnt take a genius in the bank or a very normal person like you to add two and two together! I even lodge the rent in my account. Thats my last response to you self proclaimed (fill in blanks). Anyway-someone else has kindly provided me with all I know.

BTW-you are aware tax is something that is paid to the state not the bank-you seemed confused. The bank might collect on the state's behalf but they dont keep it!

D3PO

The Revenue contacted the bank, so the bank therefore know your renting.

If they havent moved you off your tracker when they were instructed not to trigger TRS why are you still worried ?

The fact is they can get out of the agreed terms, if they want but have chosen not to.

Desal

We have a tracker mortgage with AIB. Left for Australia last Janurary and have been renting out our house since. Paying all taxes as house is rented through an agency inc NPPR. Never told AIB directly but they see rental income coming in to account every month and changed our address for statements, also big thing was to notify home insurers of change of use and our policy is with AIB so as you say dosnt take much to put 2 + 2 together. Never read the small print though.;)

FlashGordon1969

D3PO wrote: »

The Revenue contacted the bank, so the bank therefore know your renting.

If they havent moved you off your tracker when they were instructed not to trigger TRS why are you still worried ?

The fact is they can get out of the agreed terms, if they want but have chosen not to.

My aplogies to you for name calling (a wee bit stressed)-its just Im thinking of buying a house and trying to decide what to do with the place. The tracker is a huge asset if that was gone I would have to sell it .Given the volatile situation the Banks are in -I want to be sure Im not going to find myself with a hiked mortgage. I would say AIB are pouring over the small print.

The_Conductor

AIB's tracker mortgages were never available to investors- normally you would have been offered an investors mortgage (which in fairness you could fix at a reasonable rate- so it was easy to work out ROIs etc).

AIB and Bank of Ireland have (thus far) not been pursuing those who rent out a property which has a PPR mortgage associated with it. Staffing is an issue at both banks- they simply have not gotten around to it yet.

It would be very dangerous to assume you will not be moved onto an investor rate in due course.

FlashGordon1969

I actually called the Bank and they said they would not take it off someone in my position. I gave no account details. I didnt ask for it in writing. I just want to read over small print myself-a poster on another site has promised to look it up. Though I think I prob dont have a leg to stand on if they pursued it. Im toying with selling it but the loss is big. Depends on whether I buy a house or not.

D3PO

FlashGordon1969 wrote: »

I actually called the Bank and they said they would not take it off someone in my position. I gave no account details. I didnt ask for it in writing. I just want to read over small print myself-a poster on another site has promised to look it up. Though I think I prob dont have a leg to stand on if they pursued it. Im toying with selling it but the loss is big. Depends on whether I buy a house or not.

well if your view is its worth keeping whilst on the tracker then why not hang on anyway and if they do pull the trigger look to sell then. I dont suspect they have an will to move any mortgageholders who essentially are only renting due to financial struggles.

And if we are to believe JP Morgan the view is the bank will be nationalised before the end of the year and I dont see the major shareholder then allowing them cash in on T&C's

The_Conductor

D3PO wrote: »

well if your view is its worth keeping whilst on the tracker then why not hang on anyway and if they do pull the trigger look to sell then. I dont suspect they have an will to move any mortgageholders who essentially are only renting due to financial struggles.

And if we are to believe JP Morgan the view is the bank will be nationalised before the end of the year and I dont see the major shareholder then allowing them cash in on T&C's

What I was told was that it was simply a staffing issue- they have not gotten around to it as yet- but with their new business plan, its simply a matter of time.

With respect of the bank being nationalised by the end of the year- they have undertaken to procure external finance, however are unable to do so in the current environment (and are trying to sell assets, notably their Polish assets, first).

What exactly do you mean by not seeing the major shareholder allowing them to cash in on Ts&Cs? The Irish government bailout of the banks thus far has been strictly in accordance with State Aid rules- and is fully accounted for in our Deminimis returns. The EU would not allow any state takeover- without the express assurances of a level playing field with competitor banks- which would in itself entail further interest rate increases, to a reasonable margin above actual cost of borrowing- alongside managment of existing clients in a transparent compliant manner.

State Aid has moved on a long way from the golden days of chucking a couple of million at Aerlingus every year or two......

D3PO

what they tell the EU to get the go ahead and what they actually do however I suspect are two very different things. Clearly they wont advertise their intentions and I could be way off the mark its just the feeling I have.

as for the current status quo being due to staffing. Assuming an average monthly increase of €200 per tracker they could get out of customers. You would think they would very much be focusing their efforts on this.

How hard would it be to use their data to identify people who are now renting ? Not much really if the intention was really there to pursue this.

The_Conductor

D3PO wrote: »

what they tell the EU to get the go ahead and what they actually do however I suspect are two very different things. Clearly they wont advertise their intentions and I could be way off the mark its just the feeling I have.

as for the current status quo being due to staffing. Assuming an average monthly increase of €200 per tracker they could get out of customers. You would think they would very much be focusing their efforts on this.

How hard would it be to use their data to identify people who are now renting ? Not much really if the intention was really there to pursue this.

If they had a joined up IT system- certainly they would be able to easily identify and pursue these customers. You would fall around in hysterics if you knew the different packages in use, and the lack of interoperability between them........ At present the only way of identifying these accounts, other than a customer volunteering the information- would be to seperately access 4 different systems, track down the same customer on seperate databases and try to match up one set of records with another to see where funds were coming from and going to.........

Its actually quite frightening just how awful their IT systems are......

D3PO

smccarrick wrote: »

If they had a joined up IT system- certainly they would be able to easily identify and pursue these customers. You would fall around in hysterics if you knew the different packages in use, and the lack of interoperability between them........ At present the only way of identifying these accounts, other than a customer volunteering the information- would be to seperately access 4 different systems, track down the same customer on seperate databases and try to match up one set of records with another to see where funds were coming from and going to.........

Its actually quite frightening just how awful their IT systems are......

i think i could make an awful lot of money consulting for them so !!!

The_Conductor

D3PO wrote: »

i think i could make an awful lot of money consulting for them so !!!

D3PO

smccarrick wrote: »

I know you work in IT too Shane dont worry Id hire you on the min wage to help :P

FlashGordon1969

Im a bit confused why the guy in home mortgages told me all is fine and dandy?! It would not be hard to track down people-a look at their accounts would prob show rent money coming or the lack of mortgage interest relief. We will just have to wait and see. I must have a look at small print.

The_Conductor

FlashGordon1969 wrote: »

Im a bit confused why the guy in home mortgages told me all is fine and dandy?! It would not be hard to track down people-a look at their accounts would prob show rent money coming or the lack of mortgage interest relief. We will just have to wait and see. I must have a look at small print.

The guy in home mortgages- is probably dealing with mortgages at a branch level. He has no idea of what is happening at a regional or corporate level (and indeed these days has to ring credit control in head office before he is allowed sign off on any loans- irrespective of the customer or any offers made to them).

As is the case in many organisations- very often one hand has no idea what the other hand is doing.......

FlashGordon1969

smccarrick wrote: »

The guy in home mortgages- is probably dealing with mortgages at a branch level. He has no idea of what is happening at a regional or corporate level (and indeed these days has to ring credit control in head office before he is allowed sign off on any loans- irrespective of the customer or any offers made to them).

As is the case in many organisations- very often one hand has no idea what the other hand is doing.......

So you think they will root out trackers who are renting?

The_Conductor

FlashGordon1969 wrote: »

So you think they will root out trackers who are renting?

Eventually. Its a low priority at the moment- the very continued existence of the bank as an independent entity is currently at stake. A couple of hundred people on the wrong mortgage rate are the least of their worries......

FlashGordon1969

Prob right-if they moved it to variable rate I wouldnt be that badly off as paying extra at mo but if they stuck me with investor rate Im screwed. I could always move back in !

radar0976

Does anyone know for sure if they are allowed to take you off a tracker without your persmission. I've recently rented out my house because I can't sell it. I've been on a tracker for 5 years while I was living there and still am. If they get wind that I have moved (because I updated my correspondance address with them) could they try to move me off tracker ? Is this illegal ?

Paulw

radar0976 wrote: »

If they get wind that I have moved (because I updated my correspondance address with them) could they try to move me off tracker ? Is this illegal ?

Yes, they can move you off.

No, it's not illegal, it's part of the contract.

The_Conductor

radar0976 wrote: »

Does anyone know for sure if they are allowed to take you off a tracker without your persmission. I've recently rented out my house because I can't sell it. I've been on a tracker for 5 years while I was living there and still am. If they get wind that I have moved (because I updated my correspondance address with them) could they try to move me off tracker ? Is this illegal ?

Once you are no longer living in the property- it is not your PPR and is treated by most financial institutions as an investment property. It is only very recent that they are being lax about chasing folk and moving them onto investor mortgages instead.

There is nothing illegal whatsoever about the bank moving you off your tracker mortgage in these circumstances- you really need to get a copy of the terms and conditions attached to your mortgage and read them carefully.......

FlashGordon1969

If its part of the contract-only if! And even then they might not

munsterlegend

Are banks offering incenties to move people off tracker mortgages? i haven't seen anything on their websites. I was going to get a top up for some house improvements but I presume that will affect my current tracker rate?

The_Conductor

munsterlegend wrote: »

Are banks offering incenties to move people off tracker mortgages? i haven't seen anything on their websites. I was going to get a top up for some house improvements but I presume that will affect my current tracker rate?

Not necessarily- the topup would be treated as a free-standing loan in its own account- with different terms and conditions to the main mortgage account. You would need to contact your branch- but I don't see how/why it would affect the main mortgage.

Re inducements to give up your tracker- the regulator nuked proposals from several different institutions on precisely this.

Victor

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