Full driving licence with learner permit for trailer

nowimtalkin

Long story short: Wondering is it legal to tow a trailer unaccompanied with full driving licence (have it about a year and a half) and a recently acquired learner permit for the trailer?

Run_to_da_hills

As far as I know you need to be accompanied by someone with a full EB license however I drove down to the testing centre unaccompanied towing a horse box and no questions were asked. You are required to display L plates.

Tallon

Nope, you can't even if there is a Full driver next to you.

In fact there was a new thing brought in a while back where even full license holders can't tow a trailer.

Check your license, it will have a picture of a car & trailer and text next to it if you can do it

guil

ya can pull a trailer as long as the gvw is less than 750kg iirc

GalwayKiefer

guil wrote: »

ya can pull a trailer as long as the gvw is less than 750kg iirc

http://www.rotr.ie/your-licence-and-vehicle/driving-licences-and-vehicle-categories/vehicle-categories-age-requirements.html

Category B:
Vehicles (other than motorcycles - mopeds - work vehicles or land tractors) with a design gross vehicle weight of 3,500kg or less, and seating for up to 8 passengers (apart from the driver). These include a trailer when the trailer's design gross vehicle weight is 750kg or less.

slimjimmc

Tallon wrote: »

Nope, you can't even if there is a Full driver next to you.

In fact there was a new thing brought in a while back where even full license holders can't tow a trailer.

Check your license, it will have a picture of a car & trailer and text next to it if you can do it

In one sense you are correct, Cat 'B' Learner Permit holders are banned from towing trailers of any kind. However the OP is not a cat 'B' Learner he is a 'EB' Learner so this situation your statement is incorrect. He already has a full 'B' licence and an 'EB' Learner permit so all he needs is a pair of L-plates and an accompanying driver who has full EB licence for at least 2 years.

Anyways, as already said, you only need an EB licence or EB leaner permit if the trailer exceeds a certain weight. The OP could very legally tow a smaller trailer unaccompanied because he already has the necessary 'B' licence.

nowimtalkin

Cheers to all. I find it interesting regarding the different weights. How would a bigger weight change things, is it to do with braking or what?? Think I'll just have to be patient and wait my 6 months! :rolleyes:

alias no.9

slimjimmc wrote: »

In one sense you are correct, Cat 'B' Learner Permit holders are banned from towing trailers of any kind. However the OP is not a cat 'B' Learner he is a 'EB' Learner so this situation your statement is incorrect. He already has a full 'B' licence and an 'EB' Learner permit so all he needs is a pair of L-plates and an accompanying driver who has full EB licence for at least 2 years.

Anyways, as already said, you only need an EB licence or EB leaner permit if the trailer exceeds a certain weight. The OP could very legally tow a smaller trailer unaccompanied because he already has the necessary 'B' licence.

Can you sit an EB test with a trailer gvw >750kg and a train gvw >3500kg (which I believe is the other constraint) i.e can you complete the EB test with a vehicle and trailer that can be legally be driven on a B licence?

Silvera

AFAIK, you must use a vehicle and trailer combo which exceeds the Cat 'B' Licence allowance.

(In fact there is also some requirement about using a high sided trailer if using a 1997 or newer tow vehicle...or if the trailer was manufactured after 1997....or something to that effect)

Cat B Licence holders can exceed the 750kg requirement. Look up the (UK) DVLA site - it breaks it down better. (The UK brought in EU licence requirements in 1997....we did so in 1990!)

slimjimmc

Silvera is correct, you must do the test with a vehicle corresponding to the category of the license being sought. That means you can't use a trailer < 750kg for an EB test.

slimjimmc

Silvera wrote: »

AFAIK, you must use a vehicle and trailer combo which exceeds the Cat 'B' Licence allowance.

(In fact there is also some requirement about using a high sided trailer if using a 1997 or newer tow vehicle...or if the trailer was manufactured after 1997....or something to that effect)

Cat B Licence holders can exceed the 750kg requirement. Look up the (UK) DVLA site - it breaks it down better. (The UK brought in EU licence requirements in 1997....we did so in 1990!)

Sorry, I missed this yesterday.
According to the RSA a 'B' licence is for

Vehicles with seats for up to 8 passengers and a maximum weight of 3,500kg (includes pulling a trailer where the maximum weight of the trailer when fully loaded is 750kg or less)

whereas an 'EB' licence is for

Combinations of vehicles with drawing vehicle in category B and where the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is greater than 750kg.

This seems to be as per SI 537/2006 which defines a cat 'B' vehicle as

Drawing vehicles.


7. (1) A combination of vehicles which consists of a drawing vehicle and a trailer shall, for the purpose of these Regulations, be regarded as a vehicle -


(a) in category B, where the drawing vehicle is in category B and the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle and the total design gross vehicle weight of the combination does not exceed 3,500 kg,


(b) in category B, C1, C, D1 or D, where the drawing vehicle is in category B, C1, C, D1, or D, respectively, and the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750 kg, or


(c) in category W, where the drawing vehicle is in category W.

So according to the RSA and the Regulations the distinction is clear:
If trailer <= 750kg and car+trailer <=3500kg : Cat B is ok.
If trailer > 750kg and car+trailer <=3500kg : Cat EB required.


The UK may have different regulations.

CiniO

slimjimmc wrote: »

So according to the RSA and the Regulations the distinction is clear:
If trailer <= 750kg and car+trailer <=3500kg : Cat B is ok.
If trailer > 750kg and car+trailer <=3500kg : Cat EB required.

Sorry, but you understood it wrongly.

On B licence you can drive a vehicle with GVW of 3500kg + trailer with max GVW 750kg.
So even the GVW of combination of these two vehicles is 4250kg, you are still legal on B licence.

You are also allowed to tow heavier trailer. Only condition is that trailer's GVW is not bigger then towing vehicle's unladen weight, and the GVW of combination of these two vehicles in not bigger then 3500kg.

In example. Your have a car which GVW is 2000kg. That car when unladen, weights 1500kg. With this car, you can tow a trailer with GVW of 1500kg. And you are still legal with it on B licence, because the GVW of the combination of these two vehicles doesn't exceed 3500kg, and GVW of the trailer doesn't exceed the unladen car's weight.


Anything heavier than in these examples would need EB licence.

slimjimmc

CiniO wrote: »

Sorry, but you understood it wrongly.

On B licence you can drive a vehicle with GVW of 3500kg + trailer with max GVW 750kg.

So even the GVW of combination of these two vehicles is 4250kg, you are still legal on B licence.

Please explain how you came to that conclusion especially when the SI clearly says that the limit for a Cat-B car+trailer combination is 3500kg.

(a) in category B, where the drawing vehicle is in category B and the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle and the total design gross vehicle weight of the combination does not exceed 3,500 kg,

CiniO wrote: »

You are also allowed to tow heavier trailer. Only condition is that trailer's GVW is not bigger then towing vehicle's unladen weight, and the GVW of combination of these two vehicles in not bigger then 3500kg.

In example. Your have a car which GVW is 2000kg. That car when unladen, weights 1500kg. With this car, you can tow a trailer with GVW of 1500kg. And you are still legal with it on B licence, because the GVW of the combination of these two vehicles doesn't exceed 3500kg, and GVW of the trailer doesn't exceed the unladen car's weight.


Anything heavier than in these examples would need EB licence.

Yeah, I had wondered about that myself and I can indeed see how it could be read that way which is why I had looked up the RSA site in the hope of some clarification.
I can also see how 7.b could mean you can tow a trailer which exceeds the car's unladen weight so long as the trailer's GVW is within 750kg and car+trailer combined GVW doesn't exceed 3500kg.

However ...

the SI defines a category-B vehicle as

Vehicles (other than motorcycles, mopeds, work vehicles or land tractors) having a design gross vehicle weight not exceeding 3,500 kg., and having passenger accommodation for not more than 8 persons and where the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is not greater than 750kg

I.m.o. that little "and" is critical because it adds the requirement that to be a Cat-B vehicle the trailer portion of any car+trailer combination cannot exceed 750kg GVW.

Silvera

CiniO wrote: »

Sorry, but you understood it wrongly.

On B licence you can drive a vehicle with GVW of 3500kg + trailer with max GVW 750kg.
So even the GVW of combination of these two vehicles is 4250kg, you are still legal on B licence.

You are also allowed to tow heavier trailer. Only condition is that trailer's GVW is not bigger then towing vehicle's unladen weight, and the GVW of combination of these two vehicles in not bigger then 3500kg.

In example. Your have a car which GVW is 2000kg. That car when unladen, weights 1500kg. With this car, you can tow a trailer with GVW of 1500kg. And you are still legal with it on B licence, because the GVW of the combination of these two vehicles doesn't exceed 3500kg, and GVW of the trailer doesn't exceed the unladen car's weight.


Anything heavier than in these examples would need EB licence.

CiniO is correct.
The RSA (and Rulse of the Road book) is slightly confusing the way it is worded/written.

The regulations in the UK are EXACTLY the same as here re towing of trailers (as they also adopted the EU licence rules in 1997).

The UK sites explain it more clearly
...as do UK trailer towing or UK Campervan owners sites.

CiniO

slimjimmc wrote: »

Please explain how you came to that conclusion especially when the SI clearly says that the limit for a Cat-B car+trailer combination is 3500kg.

It doesn't.

Here's a quote from S.I. No 537 of 2006 which describes category B.

Vehicles (other than motorcycles, mopeds, work vehicles or land tractors) having a design gross vehicle weight not exceeding 3,500 kg., and having passenger accommodation for not more than 8 persons and where the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer is not greater than 750kg

From this, we can clearly understand, that holder of category B, can drive a vehicle with GVW 3500kg with trailer of maximum GVW of 750kg. Hence it's clearly stated, that 3500kg limit applys to design gross weight of the vehicle (not combination of vehicle and trailer).
Together it makes 4250kg.

Yeah, I had wondered about that myself and I can indeed see how it could be read that way which is why I had looked up the RSA site in the hope of some clarification.
I can also see how 7.b could mean you can tow a trailer which exceeds the car's unladen weight so long as the trailer's GVW is within 750kg and car+trailer combined GVW doesn't exceed 3500kg.

However ...

the SI defines a category-B vehicle as I.m.o. that little "and" is critical because it adds the requirement that to be a Cat-B vehicle the trailer portion of any car+trailer combination cannot exceed 750kg GVW.

This paragraph allows only for trailers up to 750kg.
But see there's another paragraph from the same SI.

7. (1) A combination of vehicles which consists of a drawing vehicle and a trailer shall, for the purpose of these Regulations, be regarded as a vehicle -


(a) in category B, where the drawing vehicle is in category B and the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the drawing vehicle and the total design gross vehicle weight of the combination does not exceed 3,500 kg,


(b) in category B, C1, C, D1 or D, where the drawing vehicle is in category B, C1, C, D1, or D, respectively, and the design gross vehicle weight of the trailer does not exceed 750 kg, or

That paragraph, tells us to regard a vehicle with trailer (which applys to above conditions), as a vehicle of category B.
So in other words, this has nothing to do with previous paragraph, which stated that, maximum trailer GVW is 750kg.
Just that paragrapgh (point a) tell us, that if we have a drawing vehicle in category B, and a trailer which GVW is not grater than unladen drawing vehicle's weight, and the whole combination of these vehicles GVW is not greater then 3500kg, then it should be considered as vehicle in category B.


I know that these regualtions are a bit complicated, and it's not perfectly clear.
But thing which makes it easier to understand, is that they are based on European regulations about driving licences.
And believe me, that in every European country, it's the same as I described.

Esel

CiniO, I like your style.

slimjimmc

Ahahaa, all is revealed. T'was the bit about treating car+trailer as one vehicle that threw me off, but I got there eventually
Thanks gents.