The Rip Public Off Ireland

Braggadocio

I do an inordinate amount of online browsing looking for the best prices on consumer products, and am increasingly frustrated by the Dick Turpins of this island. As a nation, we are the greatest shower of apathetic pinheads on planet earth. We accept pretty much anything that's thrown our way.
I have yet to find an Irish online outlet that matches, or beats, the prices of Amazon or eBay, for example. Even if I bring a printed, priced page of a product from either of these online outlets to an Irish dealer, they invariably baulk at the prospect of shedding a few €uros in order to win a sale. As a result of this chicanery, I no longer purchase anything in this country - apart from a carton of milk and a loaf of bread. It's time for us to collectively holler, "we're as mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more!" Until we learn the concept of solidarity, things will never change

Thanks to the internet, geography is now history.

Kintarō Hattori

Why on earth have you posted this in the Komplett forum?

Braggadocio

Sorry, I'm a rookie on these threads. Where, and how, do I redirect the post? Thanks

Kintarō Hattori

Braggadocio wrote: »

Sorry, I'm a rookie on these threads. Where, and how, do I redirect the post? Thanks

You'll have to ask/wait for a mod to move it to the Rip Off Ireland forum below:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=235

Komplett-Tech: Ryan

Braggadocio wrote: »

Sorry, I'm a rookie on these threads. Where, and how, do I redirect the post? Thanks

No need to worry We all make mistakes. I've contacted a mod to move this for you

91011

Braggadocio wrote: »

I do an inordinate amount of online browsing looking for the best prices on consumer products, and am increasingly frustrated by the Dick Turpins of this island. As a nation, we are the greatest shower of apathetic pinheads on planet earth. We accept pretty much anything that's thrown our way.
I have yet to find an Irish online outlet that matches, or beats, the prices of Amazon or eBay, .

You have to look at the market.

Ireland as a whole is smaller than many UK cities.
On some products there are distributors who add their own markup as the market is too small for direct supply.
On other products you have to add in shipment charges from UK / continent.
Then if you're comapring against USA prices, you have to take into account VAT.

There are so many differences in the way pricing is done you simply can't just have a general staement against every online retailer.


I never publicise my online stores here, but I do know that the ex vat prices for a American made product which is my main product is the same as the ex sales tax prices in USA. For another online store I have involvement with, prices beat every UK price hands down (30% of business is to UK) and match any USA price.

Yes many stores are more expensive, but the costs are also more expensive and the economies of scale simply are not in a marjet of 4.5million.

Michael Doherty

Braggadocio wrote: »

I do an inordinate amount of online browsing looking for the best prices on consumer products, and am increasingly frustrated by the Dick Turpins of this island. As a nation, we are the greatest shower of apathetic pinheads on planet earth. We accept pretty much anything that's thrown our way.
I have yet to find an Irish online outlet that matches, or beats, the prices of Amazon or eBay, for example. Even if I bring a printed, priced page of a product from either of these online outlets to an Irish dealer, they invariably baulk at the prospect of shedding a few €uros in order to win a sale. As a result of this chicanery, I no longer purchase anything in this country - apart from a carton of milk and a loaf of bread. It's time for us to collectively holler, "we're as mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more!" Until we learn the concept of solidarity, things will never change

Thanks to the internet, geography is now history.

Can´t do anything but agreeing, sorry dealers...

rubadub

Michael Doherty wrote: »

Can´t do anything but agreeing, sorry dealers...

What about dealers being charged a lot at the wholesale level. There is a ridiculously bizarre assumption in many threads here that all retailers are buying stuff at the same price.

http://www.rte.ie/business/2009/0204/retail.html

Cormac Tobin, head of the largest pharmacy chain Unicare, claimed that some biscuits cost more than twice as much here as in Britain. He said McVities biscuits here cost 220% of what they would cost in Britain, while the price of a Colgate toothbrush was 74% dearer and Pampers baby wipes were 40% dearer.

Mr Tobin said had tried to persuade Irish distributors to cut prices following the fall in the value of sterling, but most had refused. He believed the only way prices would come down was when retailers named and shamed the distributors responsible for the high prices.

Retailer group RGDATA told the committee a tin of baby food - SMA Gold - made in Dublin costs a retailer €11.24 - but it can be bought in England for €8.72. Jim Marshall, a director of the group, said other prices here were also much higher.

He said a packet of Mach 3 razor blades cost €9.88 from the Irish distributor - but can be bought for €6.87 abroad.

John Foy, president of RGDATA, said he had been buying bottles of 7Up - which is produced in the Republic - in the North for 40 cent a bottle cheaper than he could get here. But he claimed the supply was cut off after the Northern agent came under pressure for selling into the Republic.

So if the product costs the retailer 100% more, and he sells it at a mere 10% more than the foreign seller then who is the "ripoff merchant"?

davo10

OP are you really saying that you cannot understand how online bohemoths like amozon and ebay charge less than irish online/retailers?. Firstly a lot of articles sold on ebay are by individuals trying to get rid of castoffs/unwanted goods by entering a bidding process, secondly a lot of what is bought on ebay is fake, thirdly power sellers can despatch thousands of the same items per day so can buy from manufacturers cheaply, lastly a considerable percentage of sellers are in the far east eg Hong Kong/China/Taiwan so can sell goods at exceptionably low prices . Amazon is a vast company and market leader but guess what, the last financial statement I read said it was losing money on its books but gaining on advertising. Think about scale and market share, Ireland is a minute market compared to continental Asia/America so it doesn't take a genius to work out that Irish online retailers will be more expensive than the sites you mention.

eightyfish

Braggadocio wrote: »

Even if I bring a printed, priced page of a product from either of these online outlets to an Irish dealer,

How do you think the staff member you're showing your list to is being paid? You can't compare online to in-store.

If you're talking just of online shopping- then there are a few elements to it. We have the second highest minimum wage in Europe. Most Irish distributors will have higher prices than UK ones - even dealing with the exact same goods. Irish companies do not have access to the UK market to buy at the lower price. Amazon etc have huge buying power, far more than any Irish business would.

I'm not saying it's right, but these are some of the reasons behind the price difference.

mcwhirter

91011 wrote: »

You have to look at the market.

Ireland as a whole is smaller than many UK cities.
On some products there are distributors who add their own markup as the market is too small for direct supply.
On other products you have to add in shipment charges from UK / continent.
Then if you're comapring against USA prices, you have to take into account VAT.

There are so many differences in the way pricing is done you simply can't just have a general staement against every online retailer.


I never publicise my online stores here, but I do know that the ex vat prices for a American made product which is my main product is the same as the ex sales tax prices in USA. For another online store I have involvement with, prices beat every UK price hands down (30% of business is to UK) and match any USA price.

Yes many stores are more expensive, but the costs are also more expensive and the economies of scale simply are not in a marjet of 4.5million.

How much do these distributors charge. There is too much press stating it is the supermarkets who are to blame. If the supermarkets are stuck paying high prices to these distributors then no the wonder we are paying more than we should be.
When tescos recently were selling non-irish goods, were they in fact not using the distributors.
Can the distributors not be bypassed?

91011

mcwhirter wrote: »

How much do these distributors charge. There is too much press stating it is the supermarkets who are to blame. If the supermarkets are stuck paying high prices to these distributors then no the wonder we are paying more than we should be.
When tescos recently were selling non-irish goods, were they in fact not using the distributors.
Can the distributors not be bypassed?

A distributor would need to add approx 30% to the price of the goods.

Problem is Ireland is just far too samll a market for many comaonies to sell direct to. Small delievries from UK or central europe are costly. So they use distributors who will buy a full container, break it down, put it on warehosue shelves and sell it by the case / pallet to local retailers.

The local distributor has warehouse / office / accounting / delivery costs to add on.

That is one disadvantage to being an island of 4.5million people.

The advantage is we've more space:D

rubadub

mcwhirter wrote: »

H If the supermarkets are stuck paying high prices to these distributors then no the wonder we are paying more than we should be.

Exactly, I showed a few examples in the quote I gave. Some industries are more extreme, e.g. I use expensive CAD software and was talking to the Irish distributors, they said in China it is FAR cheaper since piracy is rife there, so they have just got to bite the bullet and accept this and at least get some sales, he said now many companies there will pay for it so profits are up. The retail price and no doubt the wholesale price for levis jeans is much lower in the US

mcwhirter wrote: »

Can the distributors not be bypassed?

Tesco wanted to import levis from the US and they were somehow blocked, levis wanted to keep it as a "premium" product. I think coke also would boycott and refuse to supply stores who do not go with approved distributors, so you do not see UK coke in Irish tescos, but chippers might not care about coke so go through grey area wholesalers, or just to up north themselves. I got a NI can of coke in 4 star pizza the other day.

91011

rubadub wrote: »

Tesco wanted to import levis from the US and they were somehow blocked, levis wanted to keep it as a "premium" product. I think coke also would boycott and refuse to supply stores who do not go with approved distributors, so you do not see UK coke in Irish tescos, but chippers might not care about coke so go through grey area wholesalers, or just to up north themselves. I got a NI can of coke in 4 star pizza the other day.

Levis can stop their product being imported from outside the eu into the eu through unofficial chanells, but cannot prevent inter EU trade.

NI Coke & local coke are one of the same. Only one coca cola canning operation and its in NI. And its such a low value product, the extra cost of importing from europe would be too expensive.

But talking about pizza - buy a pizza hut pizza, dominoes or a subway sandwich anywhere in europe and all the meats on them are from the kildare area.

noxqs

I have to wonder why it is so expensive as well. I travel quite a lot in Scandinavia (Sweden/Denmark) and the irony is, even as Sweden and Denmark have 25%+ VAT and massively higher taxes (50-70%) and similar/higher salaries .. they have cheaper groceries all around, but also a pretty fierce culture of wanting value for money I suppose, but these are not bigger markets really, Denmark only has 5 million people.

In Sweden I saw 1KG of minced IRISH beef, 12% fat for 4 euros :eek:. How it is cheaper to transport it to Sweden and then to a village in Sweden with Swedish VAT on top being served by a clerk who makes atleast the same as an Irish clerk, is beyond me. But then again, I am not an economist.

I just dont fathom it, there must be something seriously wrong that would be of some benefit to investigate by someone. Perhaps the European Union?

Gamesnash.ie: Pat

Cormac Tobin as quoted by rubadub used to be the operations director of Superquinn here and knows what he's talking about. As has already being said in most industries local retailers be they bricks and mortar sites or online sites are sourcing stock through distributors here who have their own markups on the products. Remember the price drops that Tesco rolled out when they started importing their goods direct from the UK rather than buying direct from the Irish distributors. (Seperate discussion to be had on what happened after!)

As another example there is a place in Ashbourne importing Sprite from Europe and selling it at about 40% of the price it costs a retailer here to buy it direct. That's a pretty extreme example to be fair but in any situation where there is a local distributor here in Ireland their cost price to retailers is going to include their own running costs and profit margin. Even a reasonably priced distributor not looking to gouge anyone etc is still going to add on at least 15% to the cost price available outside of Ireland.

Lastly the vast majority of the bigger online retailers are shipping from outside the EU and charging no VAT. This can be levied by customs if your package is stopped as well as an admin fee. In our particular case we are ex vat cheaper than most of these retailers yet we would still regularly get accused of trying to rip people off etc.

rubadub

91011 wrote: »

NI Coke & local coke are one of the same. Only one coca cola canning operation and its in NI. And its such a low value product, the extra cost of importing from europe would be too expensive.

Coke is very cheap to make, tesco value cola is about 35cent for 2L alongside coke for €2, no way the ingredients cost that much more, so I could expect it is a lot cheaper in some countries. People do import coke from outside Ireland, I have got strange cans from various chippers. Here are some quotes from an old thread on it.

axer wrote: »

I bought a bottle of Coca-Cola only to discover an awful taste.

I looked at the bottle closer and noticed that the design was not a design but arabic writing or something like that.

DublinWriter wrote: »

Most kebab-shops around town sell 'Arabic' Fanta

ojewriej wrote: »

We got this coke with arabic writing delivered with chinese food one night.

janeybabe wrote: »

I worked in a chinese and there was once a big sticker on the slab of cans of coke saying 'Not to be sold outside Canada.'

Raekwon wrote: »

I got a bottle of Coke in Londis at the top of Grafton Street and it had an Irish label stuck over a Macedonian label.
As for the Arabic Coke, I got a can of it for €1 in a vending machine in Apache Pizza (it too tastes like piss) but when I was in Dubai last year (which is a very expensive place) you could get a 6 pack of Coke cans for around €2 in the supermarkets. Looks like some people have found a way to increase their profit margins :mad:

letter from coke

axer wrote: »

Dear Consumer,

Thank you for contacting Coca-Cola Great Britain.

We were interested to learn that you had been able to purchase, in this country, a can of 'Coca-Cola', manufactured by a foreign country. We are aware of bottles and cans having been shipped over from European countries by independent entrepreneurs, but due to the Free Movement of Goods we are unable stop independents importing our product into this country. We wish to assure you that The Coca-Cola Company has not been involved with the movement of this stock into Great Britain.

It is the obligation of the importer to ensure that the ingredients panel, if in a foreign language, is "understandable" in English. If he/she does not comply with that requirement, we suggest that you take the matter up with your local trading standards office that will be able to assist you.

We appreciate you taking the time and trouble to share your concerns with us and I hope the above information clarifies the situation. We hope you will continue to enjoy the refreshing taste of 'Coca-Cola' products manufactured in Great Britain.

Yours sincerely,

***** *****
Consumer Information Centre

____________________________

91011 wrote: »

Levis can stop their product being imported from outside the eu into the eu through unofficial chanells, but cannot prevent inter EU trade

An article on this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/1261829.stm

After a three year legal battle, the supermarket chain Tesco has lost its case against the US jeans maker Levi Strauss. But does the landmark ruling mean that all supermarkets must stop selling cut-price branded goods?

What was the row between Levi and Tesco all about?

Tesco sells an average pair of Levi jeans for £27.99.

This is almost half the price of the recommended selling price of Levi jeans at approved outlets in the UK.

The grocery chain was fighting for the right to import designer goods from around the world and sell them at an even greater discount to UK customers.

Levi said that it has the right to decide how its own brand is distributed and marketed in the UK.

It said that selling Levi 501 jeans alongside household groceries undermines the exclusivity of its brand.

The European Court of Justice has now ruled that Levi - the privately owned US manufacturer - does indeed have the rights to stop Tesco importing its merchandise from the US.

How was Tesco selling the jeans so cheaply?

Tesco is not selling the jeans at a massive loss.

It was importing them from other European countries, where the wholesale prices are cheaper, and passing those price cuts on to the consumer.

It has not imported jeans from the US since 1998 when the argument first erupted.

Under the EU's trademark rules, any company can import branded goods from another EU country for sale in the UK, even without the manufacturer's agreement.

But the permission of the manufacturer is usually required when importing from a non-EU country.

Tesco will be allowed to continue buying Levi jeans from within the European Economic Area (the EU plus Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein) - the so-called "grey market" - but it will not be able to go further afield, such as the US, for the goods.

So what does that mean for consumers?

The news is not as bad as it might sound.

Tesco has already said that it will continue selling the Levi jeans that it is currently sourcing from the grey market at £27.99.

But prices are unlikely to get any cheaper.

The company was fighting to source a wider range of luxury brands from the US and then sell them at even cheaper prices.

Tesco says that if it had won the case, it would have been able to offer a discount of up to 40% rather than the 20% discount available from EU sourced plants.

The EU has ruled that Tesco will not be allowed to do that.

So while existing offers will not be jacked up, there will not be the future bargains some consumers had been hoping for.

And grey market goods are not always as widely available as hoped for, so Tesco may not be able to carry the full range of sizes and colours.

Does this ruling affect other supermarkets and other branded goods?

Not directly, no.

Tesco and its rival Asda have already stressed they will carry on selling cut-price designer goods.

All the ruling means is that retailers may be sued for selling branded goods cheaply if they import them from outside the European Economic Area without the permission of the manufacturer.

It is now up to each store to decide whether that is a risk they are willing to take.

Asda, for example, says that it has not had a complaint from a manufacturer during the past four years that it has been selling discounted designer products.

But other designer brands may have been waiting for the outcome of the Levi case, and may now be preparing to launch similar legal action.

Is this the end of it all?

No. "Our campaign goes on," said a spokesman for Tesco, adding that it will now push for a change in the law.

Tesco has already said that it will write to the UK Trade Secretary Patricia Hewitt offering their support for a change in the law.

Tesco is also writing to the European Commission urging them to review the law.

The UK government gave its backing to Tesco during the case, and may now chose to pick up the argument with the European Union.

keithclancy

noxqs wrote: »

I have to wonder why it is so expensive as well. I travel quite a lot in Scandinavia (Sweden/Denmark) and the irony is, even as Sweden and Denmark have 25%+ VAT and massively higher taxes (50-70%) and similar/higher salaries .. they have cheaper groceries all around, but also a pretty fierce culture of wanting value for money I suppose, but these are not bigger markets really, Denmark only has 5 million people.

In Sweden I saw 1KG of minced IRISH beef, 12% fat for 4 euros :eek:. How it is cheaper to transport it to Sweden and then to a village in Sweden with Swedish VAT on top being served by a clerk who makes atleast the same as an Irish clerk, is beyond me. But then again, I am not an economist.

I just dont fathom it, there must be something seriously wrong that would be of some benefit to investigate by someone. Perhaps the European Union?

Don't know, but Irish Beef is sold here in the Netherlands too under the Greenfields label.

Not the cheapest either !!

I find that hard to believe though, know a few Nordic, Swedes and Finns and they came here and couldn't believe how cheap stuff was.

They even lashed down beer on the Ryanair flight as it was cheaper than the supermarket

Priori

Braggadocio wrote: »

Thanks to the internet, geography is now history.

Nicely put.

However, I think the point being made about our relative size and the potential of our market share go some way towards explaining the price discrepancies. Nonetheless, I can see your point, and I think the discrepancies need to be put under scrutiny anyway, just in case it becomes too easy an excuse for in-store Irish retailers, if you know what I mean.

keithclancy

Priori wrote: »

Nicely put.

However, I think the point being made about our relative size and the potential of our market share go some way towards explaining the price discrepancies. Nonetheless, I can see your point, and I think the discrepancies need to be put under scrutiny anyway, just in case it becomes too easy an excuse for in-store Irish retailers, if you know what I mean.

Except for Alcohol, Cigarettes and Cars, in the EU anyway.

Outside the EU almost all stuff is subject to import taxes