The Army & their horses

neris

What is the point in the dept of defence paying money out for "soldiers" to sit on the backs of horses and jump over fences? The horses dont do anything for the economy or defence except have money spent on them for food shelter transport etc and the guys on them arent exactly doing military duty. Id love to know how much it costs a year to keep a horse for and pay the "soldier" plus other costs for him. Can think of alot more things that the money cant be spent on.

Ren2k7

You must have been watching this evenings 'Nationwide Revisited' on RTE 1. I was watching that and thinking along the lines you mentioned above. The army having horses and a marching band is probably for military events (1916 rising commemorations, remembrance services, etc) as well as other things with pomp and ceromony like state visits by foreign leaders.

P. Breathnach

The original rationale for having the Army Equitation School was promotion of the equine industry.

Brussels Sprout

Wasting money on army horses is the least of our worries at the moment.

jimmycrackcorm

What's the point of the army having artillery also? Its not like they're ever going to need it...

dan_d

I'd imagine the money spent on army horses is a tiny percentage of our overall problem.Probably not worth worrying about.

Cookie_Monster

dan_d wrote: »

I'd imagine the money spent on army horses is a tiny percentage of our overall problem.Probably not worth worrying about.

but it would be a very easy saving to make.

mikemac

Did anyone read their own view?

The Equitation School was founded in 1926 to promote Ireland and the Irish horse. Since then Equitation School riders have been the backbone of Irish showjumping and event teams.

Army riders have represented Ireland at Olympic, World and European Championship level in Showjumping and Three Day Eventing. They have assisted the Irish team to many Aga Khan Trophy successes at the RDS in Dublin, and other great Nations Cup successes at prestigious venues such as Aachen, Calgary, Washington and Toronto.



With wins in many competitions at the World Championships, Army riders on Irish bred horses have indeed been and continue to be a powerful force in advertising and promoting the sale of Irish horses abroad. Its success in achieving this objective can be established by reviewing the impressive record of Irish horses competing for other nations over the years.

As a result of the Schools direct involvement at the highest level of international competition, its coaches, riders and grooming staff are recognised for their high standard of horsemanship and skills. On numerous occasions Army grooms have won prizes for the exemplary turn - out and care of their horses.

Through the participation of its riders in various national equestrian bodies, the Army Equitation School aids in the development of riding and general equestrian development by passing on the invaluable training and experience gained by its competitive riders. The Equitation School helps young riders through the Minister for Defence’s training bursary. This is an annual bursary that is awarded to two promising young riders and includes training and participation at junior level international shows.

It could also be said that the Equitation School has represented a shop window for many of Ireland’s other assets, particularly in the areas of tourism, trade and marketing, by putting emphasis on Ireland and things Irish in a public and eminently suitable way.

The Equitation School maintains its goal to this day:

"to promote Ireland and the Irish horse"

Sleepy

Given our neutral status, the remote possibility of having to defend our borders and the lack of ability to do so even with twice our current forces, one could easily question the existence of any of our armed forces (particularly the air force's role as a flying taxi service) tbh.

Most of the officers I met in college seem to have a ridiculously high standard of living for a bunch of lads that signed up in order to get paid to do a degree. I know of one officer who recently acquired a Masters in a Legal programme and is leaving the forces next year to join one of the big 6 with a very hefty bank balance having spent most of his time with the PDF as a student and with next to no living expenses.

mikemac

We don't have an air force
And if we were truely neutral, we would have a larger defense force and not less.


If this officer plans to leave to work in the private sector to get a good job then good for him.
But he would have to buy himself out of the contract or else serve the time, it's not a free ride through college.

Sleepy

Sorrry, I meant the Air Corps. Semantics of naming aside, it operates as a ministerial taxi service and is a gross misallocation of capital.

I agree with you on the neutrality issue in principle. In practice however, we are so unlikely as to need to defend our neutrality and are so incapable of doing so (not an attack on the undisputed quality of our soldiers, just their numbers and equipment levels).

I'm pretty certain he'll have served his time having been an officer for over a decade and done a couple of tours. Most of his service, however, was spent studying. I know he regarded his terms of employment as having been very generous and I'd be inclined to agree with him.

dan_d

Actually, Sleepy I was going to post the exact same point. Considering that there was even a big article in a recent Irish Times weekend supplement about all the Irish people joining the Royal Irish Brigade in the British army because the Irish army is too "boring", as they do very little. Which would imply it could be pared down somewhat.

AlekSmart

Considering that there was even a big article in a recent Irish Times weekend supplement about all the Irish people joining the Royal Irish Brigade in the British army because the Irish army is too "boring", as they do very little.

Now look what you`ve done dan_d.....we won`t have long to wait,there`ll be one along in a minute.....:rolleyes:

oscarBravo

Sleepy wrote: »

Sorrry, I meant the Air Corps. Semantics of naming aside, it operates as a ministerial taxi service...

...and as the operator of the Garda helicopters and spotter plane, and as a maritime patrol service, and as an air ambulance service, and as a search-and-rescue service...

Yeah, total waste of money.

Nermal

feelingstressed wrote: »

Did anyone read their own view?

It sounds like something the horseracing industry should be paying for, rather than the taxpayer. Also it would please me greatly if the horseracing industry removed itself from the government teat, it should be able to make a living off people gambling away their social welfare well enough.

baalthor

I saw this as well ... do the competitors always have to be officers? I mean the riders; I presume the horses aren't officers ... or are they?
Maybe the horse outranks the private who cleans out his stable ??

P. Breathnach

Nermal wrote: »

It sounds like something the horseracing industry should be paying for, rather than the taxpayer. Also it would please me greatly if the horseracing industry removed itself from the government teat, it should be able to make a living off people gambling away their social welfare well enough.

It has nothing to do with horse racing. We're talking show jumping here.

Sleepy

oscarBravo wrote: »

...and as the operator of the Garda helicopters and spotter plane, and as a maritime patrol service, and as an air ambulance service, and as a search-and-rescue service...

Yeah, total waste of money.

All civil uses of aircraft which I'm sure could be run as an EMS operation...

tbh, it's not something I'd consider a priority. Our role in UN Peacekeeping is a nice thing for us to be known for internationally and can't hurt politically within the EU etc.

The Armed Forces may not be the best use of our tax money but it's certainly not the worst.

mikemac

baalthor wrote: »

Maybe the horse outranks the private who cleans out his stable ??

The horse is probably worth a lot more then a private takes home in pay ever year.

We'll check the website again

Riding Officers

Captain S. Carey
Captain D. O’Brien
Captain G. Curran
Captain B. Curran-Cournane
Lieutenant M. Kelly

Yard Management

Sergeant D. Horgan
Corporal S. Behan
Corporal R. Tobin
Corporal D. Mangan

Looks like the officers get to ride the horses and all the glory of winning competitions.
The lowly non commissioned officers get "yard management". No glory in mucking out stables

convert

Nermal wrote: »

It sounds like something the horseracing industry should be paying for, rather than the taxpayer. Also it would please me greatly if the horseracing industry removed itself from the government teat, it should be able to make a living off people gambling away their social welfare well enough.

Would be made easier if the on-line betting sites actually paid the same levies to the industry as the bookies who turn up at the racecourses. There's been a huge debate about this, including a parliamentary debate with representatives from both the betting and racing industries present.

And the horse racing industry has absolutely nothing to do with the sport horse industry. It's a completely different game. I think you're mixing up HRI (Horse Racing Ireland) with HSI (Horse Sport Ireland).

convert

Regarding the 'point' of the Army having an Equitation School: As feeling stressed has already mentioned, the Irish Army are a showcase, promotion and advertisement for the Irish bred horse as they are only allowed compete on Irish bred horses, a restriction which is not extended to civilian competitiors (Jessica Kurten, being just one example of an Irish rider who competes on 'foreign bred' horses). The fact that our Army riders are competing so successfully on the international circuit, as well as representing Ireland on almost every Nations Cup team in the super league attracts the attention of potential oversees purchasers who then come to Ireland, especially during Horse Show week at the RDS, to view our young Irish bred horses with the aim of buying the horses.

If, say, HSI, were to travel abroad to all the international shows so as to promote the Irish bred horse, it would cost an absolute fortune. Moreover, as HSI are partly funded by the government, it would cost the taxpayer a lot of money. Moreover, it would more than likely not be as successful as actually having the horses there jumping - as the saying goes 'actions speak louder than words'.

By having the Irish Army compete successfully on only Irish bred horses, not only are they successfully and continually attracting potential foreign buyers to Ireland so as to purchase our horses, it's actually ensuring the survival of the Irish bred sport horse.

jimmycrackcorm

Sleepy wrote: »

Given our neutral status, the remote possibility of having to defend our borders and the lack of ability to do so even with twice our current forces, one could easily question the existence of any of our armed forces (particularly the air force's role as a flying taxi service) tbh.

Most of the officers I met in college seem to have a ridiculously high standard of living for a bunch of lads that signed up in order to get paid to do a degree. I know of one officer who recently acquired a Masters in a Legal programme and is leaving the forces next year to join one of the big 6 with a very hefty bank balance having spent most of his time with the PDF as a student and with next to no living expenses.

tbh that says more about your degree... [cough] arts [cough]

finbarrk

The Irish Sport Horse industry is huge, in relation to employees, breeders, etc.
The Army Equitation School are a positive advertisment for the Irish horse. Leave them there.
There is enough of knocking of other rural sports.

Sleepy

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

tbh that says more about your degree... [cough] arts [cough]

?

B. Comm, HDip Systems Analysis here...

Nijmegen

Only officers are allowed to ride horses, and the army has a special route for entrants wishing to be commissioned into the "camel squadron" as it's known to the rest of the army.

Ireland needs maritime patrol, search and rescue functions from a military or likeminded organisation, and some ACP functions that could be rolled into the Gardai and civil defence.

For the rest of your time in the army you'll be sweeping leaves off the square in autumn or preparing to put on the odd show for a passing dignitary, slowly spending money and wondering what the purpose is.

If the equine business wants a boost it gets enough tax breaks to pay for it already. Or have the tourism bodies fund it.

Borderfox

Ivor Callely could put them on as his expenses, car hire , Chateaux in France , Army Equestrian unit. Nobody would notice

Cookie_Monster

Nijmegen wrote: »

Only officers are allowed to ride horses, and the army has a special route for entrants wishing to be commissioned into the "camel squadron" as it's known to the rest of the army.

Ireland needs maritime patrol, search and rescue functions from a military or likeminded organisation, and some ACP functions that could be rolled into the Gardai and civil defence.

For the rest of your time in the army you'll be sweeping leaves off the square in autumn or preparing to put on the odd show for a passing dignitary, slowly spending money and wondering what the purpose is.

If the equine business wants a boost it gets enough tax breaks to pay for it already. Or have the tourism bodies fund it.

Exactly, or to put in another way we need a dedicated coast guard, comprising of ships, armed ships and aircraft all to fulfill a multi role task*, similar to the US coastguard. No other branch is needed and is a waste of money IMO.

*Patrol, drug interception, rescue, lifeboats, coastal border enforcement and so forth

Ave Sodalis

Promised not to get into this but I can't resist saying, why do we have a soccer team. They win NOTHING and spend government money (tax payers money) travelling and on new jerseys etc and paying players..

On the other hand, as pointed out, the Army Equestrian bring in buyers, tourists and others who are willing to pay money buying good quality horses or pay for stud fees. As it happens, the Army's horses did very well this year at the RDS. David O' Brian's grey horse he was riding in the Puissance was stunning.

Which brings me onto another point... where exactly are the horses going to go? And if we do sell them until the economy picks up, it takes years to train a horse to jump 5-6ft and thousands to buy them in again. That puts farriers, vets and grooms out of work which is a further blow to the un-employment rates.

I know my point isn't very well expressed but you get my meaning

whatnext

If you want to see a real waste of money in the defence forces try this

http://www.military.ie/army/specialists/music/index.htm

8 bands

Plus...

http://www.iacpb.org/history/history.htm

There are a couple of Garda bands and hell who knows, the navy probably have one too

Cookie_Monster

the horses and such should be kept but by HRI or HSI, not the army. the army gets no benefit from this, they sport and country do.

Metalfan

a lot of people seem to be saying wahts the point in the army having horses or whats the point in the army having artillery etc id like to know whats the point in the army?
How many are in the army? is it ten thousand or so? We'd be better off with just the rangers and maybe a tiny thousand strong army for emergencies.

bamboozle

Michael o'leary was on the radio a few weeks back talking about the money being poured into the army equine centre, something like 1 million euro a year.
Like the seanad its something we can do without so given the fact we've over 400k people unemployed we should forego needless expense to ensure every cent is ploughed into dragging this country out of the mess Bertie and his ilk got us in to (no Bertie it was Lehman's fault we're in this mess, its yours)

convert

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

the horses and such should be kept but by HRI or HSI, not the army. the army gets no benefit from this, they sport and country do.

As I mentioned above, HRI have nothing to do with the sport horse industry - it just focuses on racing.

And if HSI (or, for argument's sake, HRI) keep the horses, the tax payer is still funding it...

Re. the point of disbanding the army completely, what happens to those who are currently 'employed' in the army? Will they not just add to the already long queues at the dole office and just increase the statistics?