Sentencing gone mad.

WorkingLunch

Does anyone think that sentencing in this country is gone crazy, take for example this person, no way should they have got a two year sentence, they are not a threat to the public.

Then compared to this guy who gets a wave from the judge.. WTF is wrong with this place.

Reloc8

Well...its important to be accurate on the facts.

The second case you mentioned was successfully appealled (or reviewed rather by the DPP). In 2003 (your report is from 2002) the Court of Criminal Appeal ordered him to serve a four year prison sentence.

As regards the first case....€125,000 is an awful lot of money to steal and not repay isn't it ? You are entitled to your view of course but I suspect just as many people will be of the belief that a prison sentence was warranted. In respect of a 2 year sentence, approximately 18 months will be served.

I don't dispute the principal that there will be many differences of opinion on what is considered an appropriate sentence in given cases.

The Highwayman

WorkingLunch wrote: »

Does anyone think that sentencing in this country is gone crazy, take for example this person, no way should they have got a two year sentence, they are not a threat to the public.

Then compared to this guy who gets a wave from the judge.. WTF is wrong with this place.

Why should the woman not go to jail? So called white collar crime does not get enough prison time IHO

JJJJNR

White collar criminals should not go to jail, what purpose does that serve? they should be made bankrupt and put on a list similar to pedophiles, where a background check can be done on the person, I wonder how much its going to cost the tax payer to keep that person in jail for two years, and possibly look after her children, probably a lot more than she stole.

The prison system is ancient ffs, it needs to be reformed they are jailing people who pose no threat to society and where something like a 10 year ban on having a bank account or access to money would be a better option.

The Highwayman

JJJJNR wrote: »

White collar criminals should not go to jail, what purpose does that serve? they should be made bankrupt and put on a list similar to pedophiles, where a background check can be done on the person, I wonder how much its going to cost the tax payer to keep that person in jail for two years, and possibly look after her children, probably a lot more than she stole.

The prison system is ancient ffs, it needs to be reformed they are jailing people who pose no threat to society and where something like a 10 year ban on having a bank account or access to money would be a better option.

If a guy comes home drunk finds his wife in bed with his best friend grabs a knife and kills them both. This guy has never been in trouble has a job and loves his kids. He admits his crime to the guards and is very remorseful.
This is now a broken man and is no danger to the greater public or society.

Should he be sent to jail? What purpose does it serve?

According to your criteria he should not.

Do you think Nick Leeson or Bernard Madoff should have been sent to jail?

JJJJNR

The Highwayman wrote: »

If a guy comes home drunk finds his wife in bed with his best friend grabs a knife and kills them both. This guy has never been in trouble has a job and loves his kids. He admits his crime to the guards and is very remorseful.
This is now a broken man and is no danger to the greater public or society.

Should he be sent to jail? What purpose does it serve?

According to your criteria he should not.

Do you think Nick Leeson or Bernard Madoff should have been sent to jail?

How can you compare manslaughter to white collar crime? Someone who takes a large amount of money over the course of 5 years probably a couple of hundred a month, has a mental problem and should not be categorised the same way as someone who murders. Yet the state seems to do exactly that I mean 2 years for taking petty cash. Nick Leeson and Bernard Madoff are the most high level white criminals in history FFS and nick leeson was out after two years.. or there abouts.

Stealing from your employer I think you'll find everyone is guilty of, if its a pen or a nixer done during working hours using company equipment.

The Highwayman

JJJJNR wrote: »

How can you compare manslaughter to white collar crime? Someone who takes a large amount of money over the course of 5 years probably a couple of hundred a month, has a mental problem and should not be categorised the same way as someone who murders. Yet the state seems to do exactly that I mean 2 years for taking petty cash. Nick Leeson and Bernard Madoff are the most high level white criminals in history FFS and nick leeson was out after two years.. or there abouts.

Stealing from your employer I think you'll find everyone is guilty of, if its a pen or a nixer done during working hours using company equipment.

You seem to have no problem with excusing theft. The link you posted would make one assume that you steal and therefore no wonder you dont have a problem with it. FFS

As for manslaughter, not everyone who is found guilty of this crime goes to jail in this country,( usually a woman though ) they may get a suspended sentence. So in the eyes of the law they may equate.

I dont know why you dont find a difference in the theft of a lump sum or over a long period. If anything the longer period is worse as it a bigger breach of trust. It shows planning, premeditation and a sense of entitlement that is sickening.

The constant drain of funds can and does cause small business to go under, causing further hardship with people loosing jobs, homes, cars and a lot more. Believe me more than you can imagine.

So yes if this were to happen to me or someone I care about and there was no way the monies would be paid back I would want that thieving fu@k to go to jail.

You do agree that Leeson and Madoff did/do deserve to go to jail? So there is a point where white collar crime does deserve jail time?

How do you feel about Liam Lawlor, Bertie, Ray Burke, CJ and all the bankers?

JJJJNR

Its a survey, and according to the survey 7 out of 10 people steal from their employers, so you yourself could be one.

You seem to have a very arcane approach to the law, in my opinion employers should have secure systems and processes in place to deter this type of theft, its the most simplistic form that in modern day operations should not happen. They have no one but themselves to blame if someone can come along, build up trust and get into their bank accounts and take money. There should have been company audits done in this case.

Reloc8

That's good practical advice to the company - still theft though.

The Highwayman

Arcane, I'll take that. (when I'm in charge man it will be different)

But your liberal crap, arm around the shoulder, there-there aproach will have us all in the sh1t.

You and I may know the difference between right and wrong but there are a multitude in this country as in every other that dont, or if they do dont give a dam. They will walk all over liberals. Jail is there to hold back the flood waters. Its a deterrent, like hanging or transportation was in the past.

If not jail how about the american model where they wear the bright jumpsuits and are made to do community work. Hard community work, fixing roads, building, cleaning streets, clearing rivers and canals. They could work time off through these systems and maybe learn some civics along the way.

You said

They have no one but themselves to blame if someone can come along, build up trust and get into their bank accounts and take money.

So there is this kid he cuts your grass every week, last summer he paints your house. You trust him around your house.

One day he breaks in steals cash and gold. Or worse he does some thing to your child.
Are you to blame because you trusted him?

Also you never answered:

You do agree that Leeson and Madoff did/do deserve to go to jail? So there is a point where white collar crime does deserve jail time?

How do you feel about Liam Lawlor, Bertie, Ray Burke, CJ and all the bankers?

JJJJNR

Things need to move on, in the 1800's you got your hands chopped off etc for stealing fish from rivers, or a loaf of bread, the system hasn't really moved from that at all.

I'm not liberal just think my taxes could be better spent, and that all criminals are not the same, there is serious overcrowding in prisons which means dangerous criminals spending less time in prison which to me is what they are designed to do, keep them away from us.

The Highwayman

JJJJNR wrote: »

Things need to move on, in the 1800's you got your hands chopped off etc for stealing fish from rivers, or a loaf of bread, the system hasn't really moved from that at all.

I'm not liberal just think my taxes could be better spent, and that all criminals are not the same, there is serious overcrowding in prisons which means dangerous criminals spending less time in prison which to me is what they are designed to do, keep them away from us.

You have to date refused to answer my question about Leeson and Madoff going to jail, twice. I would have to surmise that yes you do think they should go to jail. Thus it would make your whole a argument about white collar crime not deserving of jail time defunct. You think the same as me but just have a higher threshold for said incarceration. Also you didnt answer me about the crupit Irish politicians and bankers. Are you a member of Fianna Fail?

me_right_one

JJJJNR wrote: »

in my opinion employers should have secure systems and processes in place to deter this type of theft, its the most simplistic form that in modern day operations should not happen. They have no one but themselves to blame if someone can come along, build up trust and get into their bank accounts and take money. There should have been company audits done in this case.

You're having a laugh.

So if some scumbag manages to overcome the hi-tech, GPS activated, super-duper alarm on your car with a bang of a hurley on your back window, its your fault cos you should have had an even more secure window? If you them leave the car in to a mechanic who you know and trust, pay him to fix the window, and he copies your key and robs the car later on, that would also be your fault for trusting him to do his job, would it?

White collar crime is not nearly punished severely enough IMO. When it boils down to it, its just theft. Pure and simple. An educated, privileged, wealthy solicitor who purposely neglects and selects information for his own ends, to the detriment of others, is worse than a scumbag who robs a handbag for e20 to feed himself. Either way, a thief is a thief. WCC shouldn't get any special exceptions in the law.