LC or LCA what's the difference?

johanz

I see some places offering either Leaving cert or leaving cert applied.
What is the difference?

unknown13

The LC allows for direct entry into college and most of the marks for it are awarded in June of Sixth Year

The LCA doesn't allow direct entry into college and is more of a continuous assessment type of Leaving Cert.

spurious

Some LC students go straight into college after it.
Some LC students go the FETAC/PLC route.
Most LCA students who go to college go the FETAC/PLC route.

The LCA is made up of a series of modules (made up of key assignments), tasks and examinations, all of which go to the final mark (out of a possible maximum 200 credits).

In the LCA, you start earning (or losing) credits within a couple of weeks of starting fifth year and it goes on for the two full years, in four sessions. There is a work experience module in each session and there are examinations at the end of sessions 2 and 4. There is a very high attendance requirement.

They are different courses with a very different approach to them. The LC has almost all of its assessment in the terminal examination in June of the second year. The LCA has exams in the June of both years but by June of 6th year most LCA students will have a fair idea of how they will do, as so many credits go for tasks and key assignments already completed.

Many of the things people on this board feel should be included in the standard LC, an exam in computers, more use of IT, interview techniques, work skills, information about taxes, grants etc. are all covered in the LCA.

Some of the tasks are marked on not just the project but also the candidate's presentation of the project at interview. It's nerve wracking at first, but by the end of the fourth session, LCA candidates are usually not phased by an interview situation.

In some circles, a joke is made of the LCA, generally by people who do not know what it entails and are not following it. There is a lot of snobbery in Irish education and anything not 'like it was forty years ago' is seen as easier or not as good.

From an employers point of view, the high scoring LCA student comes with a proven record of attendance, ability to meet deadlines, ability to work alone, ability to give an oral presentation with little preparation, sometimes with a large amount of work experience in the chosen area of employment etc. 200, 300 or even 500 points in the LC tells you nothing really about a student in a work situation.

Here's some info on the LCA.
http://lca.slss.ie/faq.html

johanz

I am wondering, which one is more suited for me. Right now I have none because I'm not irish and been living here for only some months.
I am 18 and would love to enter some IT related courses after finishing either LC or LCA. But most places usually require LC, so I suppose that's more important?

dambarude

Am I correct in saying that subjects that are common to both LCA and LC Established are covered to lower academic level in LCA? Subjects such as Maths, English, Gaeilge etc.? I realise that many of the subjects on offer in the LCA have no comparable subject in the established LC, and the LCA focuses more on the application of skills than more abstract knowledge.

I may be wrong here, but many IT courses have a large Maths component, which would mean that LC Maths may prepare you better for it than the LCA equivalent (Mathematical Applications).

coffeelover

dambarude wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that subjects that are common to both LCA and LC Established are covered to lower academic level in LCA?

Yes they are covered to a lower level.
LCA is done in my school and it's basically for people who don't like to study. So if you want to enter IT related courses the LC would be of better benefit

spurious

coffeelover wrote: »

Yes they are covered to a lower level.
LCA is done in my school and it's basically for people who don't like to study.

That's an issue for your school, not the LCA. The LCA is not for people who don't want to study.

People who 'don't like to study' would have the LCA failed half way through the second session by missing key assignments and tasks, so your school is either falsifying their results or you're exaggerating.

Like I said, plenty of people who don't actually do the LCA are ready to knock it.

kevin12345

spurious wrote: »

In some circles, a joke is made of the LCA, generally by people who do not know what it entails and are not following it. There is a lot of snobbery in Irish education and anything not 'like it was forty years ago' is seen as easier or not as good.

+1
In my school they make fun of the LCA's by saying LCA stands for Let's Count Apples or Last Class Available :rolleyes:

gaeilgegrinds1

That type of attitude really grates on my nerves. IF a student has the will, LCA can get you anywhere you want to go. If only the LC would adapt the policy it has toward attendance and C.A.

johanz

So which one should I do? LC or LCA? Which one will be more useful to me?

dambarude

johanz wrote: »

So which one should I do? LC or LCA? Which one will be more useful to me?

I think you should do the established LC. It opens up more direct pathways for you to follow into higher education. And even though some think its position or status may not be justified , in my experience it is held in higher regard both within and outside schools (EDIT: as seen in the above post).

JayEnnis

All the LCA's in my school seemed to do was clean the school, look after the grounds, grow vegetables and pour concrete?

Spurious needs to realise that, although LCA seems to be a good idea it's not. Most of the lads that done LCA in my school in the past 4 years have ended up still in our small little town working in take-away's and hardware stores.

If you are in the school system you'll realise that all the messers and not so academic go into it as its pretty much impossible to fail.

kev9100

There really is a huge difference between the LCA and the LC. like Spurious said, the LCA is a lot more continouis assessment based than the LC.

To be honest, unless you are absolutely sure you don't want to go to college, I wouldn't advise doing the LCA. In my school, the vast majority of people who did it did very little during the year and a fair few regretted doing it in the end.

kev9100

JayEnnis wrote: »

Spurious needs to realise that, although LCA seems to be a good idea it's not. Most of the lads that done LCA in my school in the past 4 years have ended up still in our small little town working in take-away's and hardware stores.

There's nothing wrong with working in a hardware store or a take-away. However, I still think LCA is a poorly run course in many schools.

JayEnnis

kev9100 wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with working in a hardware store or a take-away. However, I still think LCA is a poorly run course in many schools.

I know there isn't but they show no initiative and use LCA as an easy way out.

spurious

The fact that so many schools make a bags of running the LCA is not a problem with the LCA - it's a problem with those schools.
There are plenty schools in the country where it is run properly.

Nice to see the snobbery of boards oozing to the surface.

Orlaladuck

A cousin of mine did LCA because she's dyslexic. It suited her way more than the LC pressure since she's not the brightest spark for all that pressure it brings but she has done two PLC courses since and is qualified now to do childcare.
It's the same as ty in terms of how the schools run it - some schools are good, some are bad. The course itself isn't simple, my cousin would always have some assignment to be done and I think she got the highest in her year or something like that. It was the work experience that made her want to do her course and she was more prepared for it after the LCA. I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly but it does make the road to university longer by a year or so.

JayEnnis

spurious wrote: »

The fact that so many schools make a bags of running the LCA is not a problem with the LCA - it's a problem with those schools.
There are plenty schools in the country where it is run properly.

Nice to see the snobbery of boards oozing to the surface.

Seeing as how my brother and sister done LCA its hardly snobbery on my part?

Orlaladuck wrote: »

A cousin of mine did LCA because she's dyslexic. It suited her way more than the LC pressure since she's not the brightest spark for all that pressure it brings but she has done two PLC courses since and is qualified now to do childcare.
It's the same as ty in terms of how the schools run it - some schools are good, some are bad. The course itself isn't simple, my cousin would always have some assignment to be done and I think she got the highest in her year or something like that. It was the work experience that made her want to do her course and she was more prepared for it after the LCA. I wouldn't dismiss it so quickly but it does make the road to university longer by a year or so.

I agree with you on this completely, my sister done LCA because she was dyslexic. My brother done it because he is incredibly lazy, which is the same as the majority of people in LCA. There are some that work hard and put the time in but from my experience most do the minimum work to get the merit.

dambarude

Getting back to the OP's original question, would the proponents of LCA recommend that a person who is able, suited and willing to do the established LC do LCA?

spurious

Depending on what line of work they wanted to do.
Say for example they wanted to enter the trades, then four targetted work experience modules plus appropriate specialisms would be more useful to them than x points in the LC.

We had a student once who wanted to do dance as a career (and did).
The LCA suited him exactly as almost everything he did was targetted towards dance and the performing arts in general.

It depends on the student.

implausible

OP, if you intend going straight to college to do IT, then the established Leaving Cert is your best bet. It's the most direct option and will give you the greatest range of colleges you can apply to.

Have you done your Junior Cert here? If so, your levels and results should indicate what course you do. If you have done your JC, then you have experience of a terminal exam and the established Leaving Cert is the same.

dambarude

deemark wrote: »

OP, if you intend going straight to college to do IT, then the established Leaving Cert is your best bet. It's the most direct option and will give you the greatest range of colleges you can apply to.

I agree.

c82

If your plan is to go into IT,then the leaving cert is the way to go it gives you more options into which college you can choose.

*Miss Ní C*

It really depends on you, OP.

Our school made a DVD of a load of interviews they did with LCA students about how they found the LCA course, why they picked it etc. Most of the LCAs said they enjoyed the course and picked it because they didn't feel they'd have been able to cope with the demands of the LC. One student said she really regretted it, though. She had dropped out after 3rd year and thought that she'd only be able for LCA, but she ended up regretting it because she came to realise that she would have been able to take the LC, and now it was going to take her a lot longer to get her dream course.

Choose wisely!

valtra8150

right im 16 doing 5th year lca and i know 4 lads who done it a few years ago and there all nearly qualified mechanics. wat i found out is the people who make fun of lca by saying lets count apples etc are just jelious and there parents wont let them do it thats from my experience. and yes theres some messers and people do it because there lazy but people doing lca would get a job quicker than some of the normal l.c thats been proven because of the work experience. and as some one said above that there were looking after the ground work etc but thats even better for the assement at the end of the year if teacher see you helping etc theyll give you more points or what ever there called. and some one has to do the ground work and pour concreete and they could learn something from it.

selfobsessed

valtra8150 wrote: »

right im 16 doing 5th year lca and i know 4 lads who done it a few years ago and there all nearly qualified mechanics. wat i found out is the people who make fun of lca by saying lets count apples etc are just jelious and there parents wont let them do it thats from my experience. and yes theres some messers and people do it because there lazy but people doing lca would get a job quicker than some of the normal l.c thats been proven because of the work experience. and as some one said above that there were looking after the ground work etc but thats even better for the assement at the end of the year if teacher see you helping etc theyll give you more points or what ever there called. and some one has to do the ground work and pour concreete and they could learn something from it.

Sounds like you will fit right in doing LCA, judging by the above dribble It's basically for people who don't want to do anything, those with below average level of intelligence or the those who are just plain born thick.

partyatmygaff

valtra8150 wrote: »

right im 16 doing 5th year lca and i know 4 lads who done it a few years ago and there all nearly qualified mechanics. wat i found out is the people who make fun of lca by saying lets count apples etc are just jelious and there parents wont let them do it thats from my experience.

In my year anyway, it didn't really have anything to do with jealousy. People just had a dim view of LCA because it's not considered as academic as the standard LC.

eVeNtInE

This post has been deleted.

spurious

The ironic thing is that many of these people who post 'dribble' (sic) disparaging the LCA will find themselves sitting in college beside people who did it.
Loike, omg.

LoonyLovegood

The LCA is good for some things. BUT, a lot of schools use it for cheap labour. I know my old one, which offered it, did. Any possible module that the experience could be done to do something in the school, it was done.

I reckon a lot of schools do it well, but until they all do, or at least stop making it seem like less of a LC, it unfortunately won't happen.

derek14ie

in the L.C.A. is it just a credit system or dose it also go by points.. if so what is the highest amount of points you can get?

spurious

derek14ie wrote: »

in the L.C.A. is it just a credit system or dose it also go by points.. if so what is the highest amount of points you can get?

It goes by credits, the maximum is 200 credits.
It's not part of the 'points' CAO system.

derek14ie

Dose the L.C.A. only work on a credit system or dose it also go on the point system...? if so what is the highest amount of points you can get.?

spurious

It is not part of the 'points' system. It is not intended for people wishing to enter the CAO 'points' system directly.
If you wish to go to further education after the LCA (and many do), you do it through the FETAC/PLC route, as many who complete the standard LC also do.

Anita Blow

Leaving Cert Established is the primary end of school assessment that the vast majority of students take. A University won't accept direct entry from Leaving Cert Applied so I'd recommend you just do LCE if you're looking to get into IT as it's the primary route to college and it's the shortest route.
Also as said, you'd need a certain level of maths for an IT course and LCA teaches that at a lower level than LCE. LCA is more geared towards the trades and professions where a degree isn't a necessity.

reformus

Hey all,

I did the LCA years back, i am dyslexic, but I was never tested. I was well behaved and would of always considered myself of above average intelligence, minus the typical traits of a dyslexic . I found school to be very frustrating and found LCA to be a blessing. As a result of doing the LCA am in a career I love and at under 30 i earn 40,000+ PA.

LCA teaching style suited me and kept me disciplined though out the 2 years, with regular assignments and tests that made up your final grade it would keep you focused and prepared for real for college and the workplace.

Why? Your employer expects you to be on your a game 24/7 not for a few weeks of the year, LCA prepares students for this.

How does cramming and regurgitating a few books make you more intelligent?

Personally I feel the LA point base system is out dated, many i know personally and professionally have university degrees and to be quite frank their not wrote the paper they are printed on, Not to be dismiss-of of those who are studious and are hard working, but these days tech jobs (in particular) have no coloration between the degrees people posses and the roles they have or are suited for.


If you have any questions, pls ask.