Sporter Class

kkelly77

Are there many competitors in the sporter class for benchrest? I've been told there aren't and want to confirm before I decide what power scope I'm going to get for my .22 thanks.

K

Bananaman

All NASRPC competitions, where the rnage has the facility, have a 50M Benchrest competition (A couple now have 25M also)

We always allow for International Sporter, Light Varmint and Heavy Varmint classes.

However, participation in International Sporter does seem to be quite low - when you have a comp in a club where a few lads shoot it - it goes up - but they do not seem to travel.

When we held the NASRPC national in Hilltop back in February there were
HV: 28
LV: 25
IS: 9

Fermoy held an International Benchrest Shoot in April and there were
HV:22
LV:22
IS: 6

So as you can see IS is the least popular. That is not to say that will not change though, especially when you consider the number of hunting rifles out there that could be used in it.

There is always Sporting Rifle (prone) aswell if that is up your alley - I've tried it and I've tried the ISSF variant and the Sporting Rifle is a much more difficult discipline.

B'Man

rrpc

Bananaman wrote: »

So as you can see IS is the least popular. That is not to say that will not change though, especially when you consider the number of hunting rifles out there that could be used in it.

It's not that it's less popular, most of the guys interested in Benchrest progress to the heavier rifles for competitive reasons, those shooting Sporter tend to be either lads with HV or LV rifles who also have a sporter and bring it along to the match. The sporter class is considered as an entry level to the main classes for guys who want to try it out but generally those who are interested will move up to the LV or HV classes.

There is always Sporting Rifle (prone) aswell if that is up your alley - I've tried it and I've tried the ISSF variant and the Sporting Rifle is a much more difficult discipline.

B'Man

This is quite true in the sense that sporting rifles being lighter and having lighter barrels will never compete with a target rifle with a match barrel, match trigger and using match ammunition. There are sporter variants with slightly heavier barrels and with better triggers such as the Anschütz sporting rifles, but even they would never be as consistent as a pure target rifle. All the other equipment such as jackets and slings are used as in target rifle, but telescopic sights are used instead of open sights.

Bananaman

I found the combination of the VERY heavy ISSF rifles with Open sights a very easy discipline to shoot well in. If there were more hours in the day I would probably give it a good lash.

I'm going to shoot a comp in it some day for the craic. Haven't got the time or the kit to practice for it but it looked to me like you could put in very reasonable scores with little or no experience.

Just need to borrow big lefty stuff to do it (I'm right handed but only left eye works)

Sporting Rifle is a much more difficult discipline, as is Sporter Benchrest but as you are only competing like for like it is down to how good you are.

Even though it may be seen by some as the introductory level prior to mortgaging the house to buy the heavy stuff, there are a LOT of rifles out there that would qualify for it and most of them are guys that would never look to upgrade, then again, many of them would never look to compete full stop.

Personally I think the 'sporter' prone and benchrest are so different and so much more difficult than the other variants that I would see it as the next step up from the others. not the other way around. You get guys in LV or HV who shoot a possible or near it - I've been pretty close myself on occasion. Sit em down behind a CZ 452 and see how they do. That'll sort the men from the boys.

I would see it as not that they are not as good a target rifle (many bunnies would argue that one) but that it takes a far better shooter to do well with them.

Sporting Rifle would seem to have a far more people shooting it than PR60 but primarily in their own clubs. Competitions tend to have small turnouts also with it in the dozen or so competitors. If, however, they all came out on the same day you would have a VERY busy match..

I have been speaking to many people on this very topic this year and we have been trying to hatch a plan whereby we have people shoot cross discipline in a match.

Sporting Rifle + PR60 - aggregate Scores
LV/HV + IS Benchrest - Aggregate Scores.

Then we will see who the best shots really are as it rules out the equipment

B'Man

kkelly77

The reason I asked is that I've my eye on either a 6-25x scope, which I could shoot in Sporter and LV but with only 24x mag max would leave me at a disadvantage to those with 32-40x magnification scopes

OR

buy a 10-40x scope which means I would be a bit more competitive in LV but could not shoot in Sporter class due to magnification restriction of 6.5x

K.

Bananaman

If you are using a light sporting gun in LV you would be at a distinct disadvantage.

B'Man

IRLConor

Bananaman wrote: »

I found the combination of the VERY heavy ISSF rifles with Open sights a very easy discipline to shoot well in. If there were more hours in the day I would probably give it a good lash.

I'm going to shoot a comp in it some day for the craic. Haven't got the time or the kit to practice for it but it looked to me like you could put in very reasonable scores with little or no experience.

You, or anyone with a decent amount of prior experience, could easily get to the 560s without too much grief. The difficulty is deceptive though, and it's significantly harder to shoot 575+ than it is to shoot 560s. Judging by your scores when I saw you shoot ISSF rifle, I reckon you'd hit the low 560s or high 550s in your first indoor match, or mid-low 550s in an outdoor match. Certainly respectable for a first match, but to progress past that you'd definitely need either regular training or some good targeted coaching.

That said, I've shot DURC's sporting rifles a few times and I find that shooting prone with them is a good bit harder than what I normally shoot. Personally, I don't think it's the rifle, I think it's the sights. I've never been happy with magnification when shooting unsupported, it just shows too much information about the wobble and then I go into some sort of continuous correction mode which exacerbates the problem.

I don't think it's possible to construct a competition to find out "who the best shots are". That would be like taking aggregate scores from a soccer, rugby, GAA and golf tournament to choose who the best ball-sports-players are. It sounds like a lot of fun, I'd just be wary of trying to extract meaningful data from it.

Bananaman

Who said anything about meaningful - just bragging rights

B'Man

Sparks

This sounds very similar to the experiment the US ran a decade ago when they took the top Bianchi Cup and USPSA shooters and had them train for a week in ISSF Rapid Fire Pistol on the basis that they shot fast with pistols and so did the ISSF lads and so the action shooters could form a useful pool of talent to poach from come the Games. It wasn't a bad idea - it's done all round Europe rather regularly - but it didn't work out. The action shooters were good, and the general consensus was that they could indeed become very good ISSF rapid fire pistol shooters with a few months of training; but after the first week the scores for those who'd not shot ISSF before (which was all bar one) topped out in the 550s, and at the time the US record was 594 and you had to be hitting above 585 to be internationally competitive and the learning curve gets steeper the higher your score goes. Given the lack of money in ISSF compared to the hundreds of thousands in Bianchi Cup and the like, and the amount of training needed, the idea never progressed past that initial trial.

In the Irish example you're proposing B'man, IRLConor nailed it - you'd have a good first match and with some training you'd probably do quite well, and the idea as a whole is a good one - but the idea that ISSF shooters aren't actually all that good and that sporter rifle shooters could clean their clocks if they just bought the kit, well, it's.... inaccurate. That isn't to say that we shouldn't try - we poach ISSF shooters off the Pony Club all the time (well, it's not poaching, they can't compete after a certain age so it's really us getting very good quality hand-me-downs ); and the best UK air rifle shooter at the moment started off in field air rifle shooting - but folks should go into it with a good idea of what they're going into.

rrpc

I've done both quite regularly in the past. My sporter is an old Brno (CZ) with a trigger that requires some time at spent weightlifting to release but even so, my scores were very respectable and I won my class in the first NASRPC National I competed in.

It's usually best to dial down your scope so that you can clearly see the targe and your poi, but avoid the worst of the wobbles. tbh, it's not much of an advantage using a scope and I prefer to use open sights generally.

Bananaman wrote:

I found the combination of the VERY heavy ISSF rifles with Open sights a very easy discipline to shoot well in. If there were more hours in the day I would probably give it a good lash.

Comparing scores between sporter and target rifle is not very revealing. You might well beat your sporter score with the target rifle on the first go, but when you factor out the advantage of the match bits and the heavy barrel, you'd probably be about the same.

simonmurphyeire

I have a CZ452 .22lr and I am very interested in taking part in target competitions. Where can I find information on rules and scoring guidelines for Irish shooters? Are there any competitions I can sign up to without joining a club?



IRLConor you mention "low 560s or high 550s' etc in your post - i'm presuming that's scoring you are referring to. How does the scoring system work? How many shots are fired per set?

Sparks

simonmurphyeire wrote: »

IRLConor you mention "low 560s or high 550s' etc in your post - i'm presuming that's scoring you are referring to. How does the scoring system work? How many shots are fired per set?

60 shots to score with unlimited sighters beforehand (you can't return to sighters half-way through if the wind changes); shots scored from 0 to 10 for a total maximum of 600. Just the one set, but it's a largish set
Ideally, that's all on the one target, but for clubs without gehmann boxes or electronic targets, the NSRA 3-card system is used, so you're looking at three cards with four targets on each; but that really is a rather bastardised version of the ISSF rules.

Target looks like this (that's a perfect ten in the middle):



Range is 50m, obviously, and the ten ring is 10.4mm across and the aiming mark is 112.4 mm across. Here's the full specs on the target:

kkelly77

Bananaman wrote: »

If you are using a light sporting gun in LV you would be at a distinct disadvantage.

B'Man

So B'man would you recommend the 6-24x scope to shoot in Sporter competitively and use the LV class for practice/a bit of a challenge?

Bananaman

I actually only shoot BR for a bit of craic so would not be the best person to get advice from on the specifics - there are plenty of dyed in the wool BR guys on here who can extoll the virtues of one scope over another etc.

I primarily shoot shotgun and pistol (Bought my first (gallery) rifle only a week ago)

Personally I just listen to people waffle about wind and POI and other stuff that makes no sense to me for awhile, ask "can I have a go?" and sit down behind their rifle and beat them with it. But not too often or they won't let me do it again :-)

My personal best score in a National was a 493/500 (HV) shooting CCI standard where I had to continuously stop to wipe snow off the scope and watched all the wind flags get torn out by the wind - So sometimes it's just fate.

Obviously the heavier the rifle the more advantage it gives you in BR as it is a more stable platform, hence the divisions.

Guys shooting a LV gun that is at the upper end of the weight limit - versus someone who is shooting a bunny gun is at a distinct advantage.

That said - nothing sweeter than kicking their ass with the bunny gun.

B'Man

bunny shooter

Very interesting B'man. Have you a breakdown of the kind/makes of rifles being used in the various disciplines from what you've seen.

I will have a .22lr Sako Finnfire soon, the hunter version, and was wondering where it might fit in in the NASPRC comps?

Scalachi

Hi Bunny,

That will put you in international Sporter class (IS) (any gun up to 8.5 Lbs max Scope 6.5 power - taped if variable for the duration of Comp) unless you put a scope on there over 6.5 power, then you are in Light Varmint (LV)(any gun up to 10.5 Ibs, and any magnification scope) and you can also enter heavy Varmint (HV) any gun weighing up to 16.5 Ibs, any scope, but you would be at a disadvantage.

Hope this helps.

DB

Rovi

Scalachi wrote: »

Hi Bunny,

That will put you in international Sporter class (IS) (any gun up to 8.5 Lbs max Scope 6.5 power - taped if variable for the duration of Comp) unless you put a scope on there over 6.5 power, then you are in Light Varmint (LV)(any gun up to 10.5 Ibs, and any magnification scope) and you can also enter heavy Varmint (HV) any gun weighing up to 16.5 Ibs, any scope, but you would be at a disadvantage.

Hope this helps.

DB

Aren't I right in thinking that those weights are for the whole outfit (including scope/mounts/rings/magazine if applicable/etc), unloaded?

Bananaman

I think you are correct - that is the weight limit of the rifle and everything attached to it.

B'Man