What constitutes "Good Behaviour"

AlekSmart

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/rapist-gets-passport-in-prison-2288068.html

The latest revelation in this nasty little case raises yet more serious issues about exactly what duties of care the Irish State see`s itself as having in relation to those of it`s citizens who are not criminally inclined.

The individual concerned in the above case is apparently being released back into society five years earlier than catered for by his sentence.

This remission is apparently based upon his "Good Behaviour" during his incarceration.

Reading from the above article.....

He is being released early for good behaviour. Murphy was investigated as part of Operation Trace, the garda inquiry into the disappearance of a number of women in Leinster, including Annie McCarrick (26), Jo Jo Dullard (22) and Deirdre Jacob (18).

However, he refused to cooperate with investigators and was never charged in connection with any of the disappearances.

Now,I freely admit to being a layperson with zero Legal Qualifications and zero court appearances or convictions,but I remain confused as to how,or more importantly why the State,on my behalf,extends such largesse to this convict ?

It appears this inmate`s refusal to cooperate extends to more than just ongoing Garda enquiries into other serious crimes,but also to availing of theraputic assistance for himself.

Murphy, a former carpenter from Baltinglass, Co Wicklow, never sought counselling and refused offers of rehabilitation while in prison.

Are we,the rest of the country,now to accept that the State has absolutely no sanction against a convicted,uncooperative violent criminal except to release that person back into general society 5 years EARLY ?

I am choosing to disregard the stated Garda policy regarding this persons monitoring as I believe it to be largely worthless.....

Detectives are to mount discrete covert surveillance on Murphy to keep tabs on his movements. The operation is to be coordinated by a senior officer.

In the circumstances of this particular case I regard the Garda Authorities concern regarding "discretion" to be totally misplaced and at variance with the needs of society at large,certainly within West Wicklow.

If this fellow made his considered decision to ignore treatments available to him and equally maintained his non-cooperation with Garda Investigators then he should be serving every-last-minute of the 15 year sentence handed down.

The State appears to consider this sentence as fulfilling it`s responsibility towards justice for the inmate.

However in doing so,the same State is actually delivering a new additional sentence to the unfortunate victim of this man....but it appears she,and many more like her,do not merit this State`s consideration,much less action. :mad:

Laminations

Rehabiltation, or at least partial rehabilitation should be a prerequisite for release from prison let alone early release. It should be a process with which the inmates are required to actively engage in. Releasing someone who has shown no interest or desire to rehabilitate is a disservice to society and the convict. Prison is treated too much like a sin bin, the rehabilitation part is wholly ignored. It's just another sad example of our ineffective justice system.

bmaxi

IMO the whole rehabilitation experiment has been a failure and prison should revert to it's original role as a place of punishment.
It's a joke to see murderers, rapists and drug barons leading a more comfortable existence than decent, hard working, law abiding citizens.

Laminations

bmaxi wrote: »

IMO the whole rehabilitation experiment has been a failure and prison should revert to it's original role as a place of punishment.
It's a joke to see murderers, rapists and drug barons leading a more comfortable existence than decent, hard working, law abiding citizens.

Do they live more comfortable lives though? I think the transparency within our prison system is shockingly bad. I want to know daily routines, how much time they spend in their cells doing nothing, the hours they are required to spend (if any) in classes and counselling, the numbers attending and the consequences on their sentence for non compliance i.e. Showing no interest in rehabilitation. The rehabilitation experiment hasn't failed, I think it's never been implemented. How much responsibility do prisoners have? For cleaning, cooking, volunteer work? What do they need to do to get access to recreational equipment like tv and games consoles? Why is there no prison court to assess crimes committed while serving sentence e.g. Rioting, assault, drug and phone possession? What is the recidivism rate for Ireland? So many questions but all concerning how much our prisons focus on rehabilitating the inmates and why we release people who are not rehabilitated- how have they suddenly become fit for society?

Jeboa Safari

People like him should never be released. They're never going to ammount to anything or contribute anything to society. They should be all thrown out onto an island until they did, or handed over to the state for medical experiments or whatever. They shouldn't be afforded any comfort and the state should spend the bare minimum in having to keep them instead of spending I think around €80,000 a year to keep them.

Einhard

bmaxi wrote: »

IMO the whole rehabilitation experiment has been a failure and prison should revert to it's original role as a place of punishment.
It's a joke to see murderers, rapists and drug barons leading a more comfortable existence than decent, hard working, law abiding citizens.

It's been a failure because it hasn't been tried in any meaningful way. There are plenty of studies that show that rehabilitation does work if implemented properly.

Also, I can leave my house whenever I want. I can see my family without them having to make an appointment. I can see them whenever I want. I'm not sure how prisoners have a better quality of life than me.

The punishment in prison is the denial of liberty. That's punishment enough for me.

Einhard

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

People like him should never be released. They're never going to ammount to anything or contribute anything to society. They should be all thrown out onto an island until they did, or handed over to the state for medical experiments or whatever.

Just like the Nazis eh?

Laminations

Jeboa Safari wrote: »

People like him should never be released. They're never going to ammount to anything or contribute anything to society. They should be all thrown out onto an island until they did, or handed over to the state for medical experiments or whatever. They shouldn't be afforded any comfort and the state should spend the bare minimum in having to keep them instead of spending I think around €80,000 a year to keep them.

Wile I disagree with you and am not sure whether your post is written 'tongue in cheek' I would like to know how it costs so much to imprison a person.

Jeboa Safari

Just like the Nazis eh?

yeah or hard labour or something, should be punished properly, murders and pedophiles give up their human rights (or should do) when they decide to take others like that in my opinion

Wile I disagree with you and am not sure whether your post is written 'tongue in cheek' I would like to know how it costs so much to imprison a person.

I'm serious. Not sure why but takes into account prison guards wages and that
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cost-of-keeping-prisoners-in-jail-falls-as-staff-take-pay-cut-2230818.html

bmaxi

Einhard wrote: »

It's been a failure because it hasn't been tried in any meaningful way. There are plenty of studies that show that rehabilitation does work if implemented properly.

Also, I can leave my house whenever I want. I can see my family without them having to make an appointment. I can see them whenever I want. I'm not sure how prisoners have a better quality of life than me.

The punishment in prison is the denial of liberty. That's punishment enough for me.

What about the victims of these criminals, will the murder victims be leaving their home soon, will the rape victim be taking an evening stroll by the river, will the mugging victim walk out alone to the shop?
I get sick of bleeding hearts, these people have only themselves to blame for where they are. Don't do the crime and you won't do the time. Simple as.

Einhard

bmaxi wrote: »

I get sick of bleeding hearts, these people have only themselves to blame for where they are. Don't do the crime and you won't do the time. Simple as.

Who's arguing with that? Seriously, point out for me where anyone in this thread has argued against a policy of incarceration.

bmaxi

Einhard wrote: »

Who's arguing with that? Seriously, point out for me where anyone in this thread has argued against a policy of incarceration.

Maybe not in so many words but the sentiments are the same. These people are criminals and should be treated as such. I don't care if they are locked up 24 hours a day and eating their own sh*t, the fact is they created the situation for themselves. Too many people try to make out they are victims, they are not victims, they create victims.
Prison is a place you should not want to return to and yet daily we are treated to bleeding hearts like Lonergan talking of prisoners (i.e. criminals, not, as some would have us believe just another branch of society,) living in overcrowded conditions and rabbiting on about compassion and understanding. Bo**ocks! We've given them all the understanding they deserve by giving them a roof over their heads and three meals a day, there are decent people in the country, who have never committed a crime who don't have that.

Otacon

Where exactly is our money going if we don't at least try to rehabilitate criminals. We are basically paying for B&Bs for these people and just leaving them there. At least via rehabilitation, we may get some people back into society who can actually add value.

Not saying its going to work all the time, or that it should reduce prison sentences, just that its a waste of money.

Laminations

bmaxi wrote: »

What about the victims of these criminals, will the murder victims be leaving their home soon, will the rape victim be taking an evening stroll by the river, will the mugging victim walk out alone to the shop?
I get sick of bleeding hearts, these people have only themselves to blame for where they are. Don't do the crime and you won't do the time. Simple as.

Believe me, I'm all for fitting and appropriate sentences and am amazed at leniency shown in this regard, e.g. I think there should be a far greater multiplier effect for previous convictions and think more sentences should run consecutively as concurrent sentencing promotes crime sprees. I'm a firm believer in criminals 'doing the time' but time incarcerated without any rehabilitation is time wasted and you get out worse than you put in. We make little attept to rehabilitate in our prisons. There should be structured programs and classes for prisoners and active participation in education and skills training should be a requirement for release. Although there are bleeding hearts that want to recognise criminal rights over victims rights, I don't think there has been anyone posting as such on this thread. I'm advocating for an approach where you treat prisoners with a bit of respect and human dignity and the chance to reform but by all means if they do not reciprocate or try and make the most of that chance then keep them in prison as they have not demonstrated they are fit to return to society.

irishh_bob

Otacon wrote: »

Where exactly is our money going if we don't at least try to rehabilitate criminals. We are basically paying for B&Bs for these people and just leaving them there. At least via rehabilitation, we may get some people back into society who can actually add value.

Not saying its going to work all the time, or that it should reduce prison sentences, just that its a waste of money.

what exactly does rehabilitation mean , with regard this rapist murphy , are we to believe that if we have a long enough nice caring chat with the guy , he will be completley reformed upon release some day , if someone was capable of doing what he did ten years ago to that unfortunate lady , then im sorry but they are a write off and should be binned permanently

bmaxi

Rehabilitation is not what goes on in Ireland's prisons, rehabilitation has to be desired by both parties. If criminals were rehabilitated then why are there so many repeat offenders?
The prison regime seems to be a system of containment and appeasement.
Good behaviour seems to mean, don't stab your cellmate on more than one occasion, or try to burn down the block or be involved in a riot.
If the prison regime was more severe then you might have more criminals willing to be "rehabilitated"

Laminations

bmaxi wrote: »

Rehabilitation is not what goes on in Ireland's prisons, rehabilitation has to be desired by both parties. If criminals were rehabilitated then why are there so many repeat offenders?
The prison regime seems to be a system of containment and appeasement.
Good behaviour seems to mean, don't stab your cellmate on more than one occasion, or try to burn down the block or be involved in a riot.
If the prison regime was more severe then you might have more criminals willing to be "rehabilitated"

Rehabilitation to me is about giving people choices in prison and assessing their willingness to better themselves by monitoring their choices. It of course should be an active process but currently it's one we don't even give prisoners a chance to begin. You are right, our prisons are not about rehabilitation

AlekSmart

Notwithstanding the various "debates" which have sprung up in the lead-up to Mr Murphys release it now appears that the gentleman has registered a complaint with the Gardai concerning Press harassment following his release today.

However todays Independent has a rather incredible statement from Sean Crowe of Sinn Fein,who are to the forefront of local political agitation in West Wicklow concerning this very serious situation.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/notorious-rapist-larry-murphy-released-from-prison-2294451.html

Mr Crowe`s statement,taken from the article,is in response to calls for "Electronic Tagging" of released offenders such as Mr Murphy....

Meanwhile, Tallaght councillor Sean Crowe said the purpose of the meeting was to bring residents together to reassure them.

"There's a lot of fear, a lot of people scared within that community itself," Mr Crowe said.

"There's people there from the Rape Crisis Centre ... and I suppose to reassure people that the guards are going to be monitoring this individual if he does arrive in this community.

"No-one wants to see an individual like that landing in their community."

Mr Crowe said he was in favour of looking at the tagging of convicted sex offenders.

"I think in relation to sex offenders you need to look at all avenues in relation to reassuring the public," he said.

"But as an Irish republican I would have difficulty in relation to the whole question of tagging of offenders or individuals, but people are scared at the moment and we need to look at all avenues and hopefully look at new ways of tackling the problem."

I had to do a quick double-take as I read this several times over....What in Gods name has being an "Irish Republican" got to do with giving serious consideration to tagging of convisted Sex Offenders.....to attempt the drawing of any correlation between Irish Republican sensitivities to its followers being monitored and this particular instance is insulting everybodys intelligence.

Crikey,Seán Crowe needs to sort out his difficulties PDQ before this particular individual disappears off the States Radar perhaps to surface in another small Irish town under an assumed identity :mad: