MILLIONAIRE PUBLIC SERVANTS

Hootanany

MILLIONAIRE PUBLIC SERVANTS

Just came across this why has the article been pulled sorry if it has been mentioned before

JJJJNR

Its on propertypin.com sort of crazy money they are talking about 1.2 million plus bonus's for the National Treasury Management Agency boss...

Heres the VID

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cczIYgDnX0

Head The Wall

He has to save now because he will only be a second rate employee in the future

Hootanany

JJJJNR wrote: »

Its on propertypin.com sort of crazy money they are talking about 1.2 million plus bonus's for the National Treasury Management Agency boss...

Heres the VID

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cczIYgDnX0

How do you get the video on the post

changes

JJJJNR wrote: »

Its on propertypin.com sort of crazy money they are talking about 1.2 million plus bonus's for the National Treasury Management Agency boss...

Heres the VID

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cczIYgDnX0

There is something rotten in this state alright but we seem incapable or unwilling or just plainly not interested enough to put it right.

oppenheimer1

Personally I hate video blogs, they are the preserve of the vain and the nutty. The grandstanding is worse than even in a regular blog or post. That said I was curious about the article and did watch the video. Personally I have no problem with the head of the NTMA getting million euro bonuses when his performance can cost hundreds of millions in interest payments. To get people with ability you have to pay the wages.

What people should be annoyed about is where heads of bodies do not perform adequately and are overpaid. Fás a year or so ago being a good example of such a case.

ixoy

Given what the NTMA are saddled with, it's one area that should be open to bonuses.
However bonuses should always be performance related. That's not been the case - as we saw clearly when the higher public servants kicked up a fuss a while back over their pay cuts.

wowa

'Personally I have no problem with the head of the NTMA getting million euro bonuses when his performance can cost hundreds of millions in interest payments. To get people with ability you have to pay the wages.'

Since when has the outcome of job failure had anything to do with rates of pay. What about a school bus driver- to the parents of the children he drives, he has far more responsibility than the boss of any financial institution. What about the doctor who has to make decisions, does she have cancer, doesn't she? Gets paid 90k euro. Don't get me wrong. 90k euro is a fine amount but not exactly a million.

What exactly do you have to pay to get people with ability? Is 300, 400, 500k euro any less appropriate for one man to take home each year? Just remember where you are and reign yourselves in for once. If Ireland really thinks it is competing for ability with the New York, London or the other huge markets, as these packages would suggest, think again. You remain on the verge of state bankrupcy with appalling unemployment secondary to too many people taking what isn't their's to take. This is no different and just because a bunch of TDs want jobs on the board when they finish their meddling doesn't change this.

Nijmegen

wowa wrote: »

'Personally I have no problem with the head of the NTMA getting million euro bonuses when his performance can cost hundreds of millions in interest payments. To get people with ability you have to pay the wages.'

Since when has the outcome of job failure had anything to do with rates of pay. What about a school bus driver- to the parents of the children he drives, he has far more responsibility than the boss of any financial institution. What about the doctor who has to make decisions, does she have cancer, doesn't she? Gets paid 90k euro. Don't get me wrong. 90k euro is a fine amount but not exactly a million.

What exactly do you have to pay to get people with ability? Is 300, 400, 500k euro any less appropriate for one man to take home each year? Just remember where you are and reign yourselves in for once. If Ireland really thinks it is competing for ability with the New York, London or the other huge markets, as these packages would suggest, think again. You remain on the verge of state bankrupcy with appalling unemployment secondary to too many people taking what isn't their's to take. This is no different and just because a bunch of TDs want jobs on the board when they finish their meddling doesn't change this.

Head of NTMA is working in financial services, where yes, you measure what you pay against financial criteria.

If you don't like it, try paying 90k for the head of NTMA and watch our debt interest go through the roof.

RichardAnd

I am strongly of the belief that that much money should not be paid to one person by a state. The only people who deserve an income like that are the self employed people who make it for themselves.

There should be a wage cap of about 100k in the public sector. This is a fine amount of money and more than I'll ever earn. If we knocked this guy back to that, the money saved would pay the wages of 30 or so clerical civil servants.

Head The Wall

RichardAnd wrote: »

I am strongly of the belief that that much money should not be paid to one person by a state. The only people who deserve an income like that are the self employed people who make it for themselves.

There should be a wage cap of about 100k in the public sector. This is a fine amount of money and more than I'll ever earn. If we knocked this guy back to that, the money saved would pay the wages of 30 or so clerical civil servants.

Since they took away the wage cap in Semi State companies the Taoiseachs wage has gone up by 150% while soem of these semi state CEO wages have gone up by around 650%

wowa

Nijmegen wrote: »

Head of NTMA is working in financial services, where yes, you measure what you pay against financial criteria.

If you don't like it, try paying 90k for the head of NTMA and watch our debt interest go through the roof.

74billion in sovereign debt! Wow, there are plenty of people hooked up Irish economics that really aren't worth very much at all (but no doubt residing in some sturdy Dublin homes all the same).

I suspect debt interest went through the roof a long time ago! Not only that, but there is absolutely zero way of paying it back.

WalterMitty

We live in a largely market based economy and therefore the market should determine the rates we pay as an employer. If paying ten million a year for a national bond guy saves us a few billion over the years then pay him that. Many people in public sector would get a lot more if they were paid market rates but most would earn a lot less and have high salaries due to the fact they are highly unionised and threaten the country and politicians and extort above market rates which must then be paid for by higher net tax burden on private sector workers.

The average public sector worker is a millionaire by virtue of their pension alone which would cost a million or more to buy in real world but for which they pay a fraction.

Head The Wall

WalterMitty wrote: »

We live in a largely market based economy and therefore the market should determine the rates we pay as an employer. If paying ten million a year for a national bond guy saves us a few billion over the years then pay him that. Many people in public sector would get a lot more if they were paid market rates but most would earn a lot less and have high salaries due to the fact they are highly unionised and threaten the country and politicians and extort above market rates which must then be paid for by higher net tax burden on private sector workers.

The average public sector worker is a millionaire by virtue of their pension alone which would cost a million or more to buy in real world but for which they pay a fraction.

And if they join in late they can buy extra years to pump them up to the full pension. That's another scam that should be eradicated straight away

Nijmegen

wowa wrote: »

74billion in sovereign debt! Wow, there are plenty of people hooked up Irish economics that really aren't worth very much at all (but no doubt residing in some sturdy Dublin homes all the same).

I suspect debt interest went through the roof a long time ago! Not only that, but there is absolutely zero way of paying it back.

The NTMA's job swings into action when we're in debt, they have no role in causing it.

Without them doing their job effectively we would not be able to secure funding in time, or at acceptable interest rates. Cash flow and cost issues.

The NTMA has instead been securing funding well in advance of when we need it to ensure no 11th hour crises, and also to help us avoid the crises of the moment as they come and go.

Laminations

Nijmegen wrote: »

Head of NTMA is working in financial services, where yes, you measure what you pay against financial criteria.

Unsurprisingly however, only in one direction. You get X to do your job but if you do your job you get X+bonus. If you dont, you still get X. In such circumstances (where there is a bonus culture) basic wages (X) should be set a lot lower. What will happen if NAMA doesn't work? The NTMA chief will still have his pay and pension, look at Roddy Molloy in basketcase FAS, look at Neary in the basketcase Regulators. Absolutely no consequences for these overpaid individuals, because losing one's job at such high levels just means you fall back on your hefty pension.

WalterMitty

Laminations wrote: »

Unsurprisingly however, only in one direction. You get X to do your job but if you do your job you get X+bonus. If you dont, you still get X. In such circumstances (where there is a bonus culture) basic wages (X) should be set a lot lower. What will happen if NAMA doesn't work? The NTMA chief will still have his pay and pension, look at Roddy Molloy in basketcase FAS, look at Neary in the basketcase Regulators. Absolutely no consequences for these overpaid individuals, because losing one's job at such high levels just means you fall back on your hefty pension.

At least with NTMA guy you can see in pure money numbers how good or bad he is doing his job but the likes of most public sector fat cats you cant measure performance easily.

Head The Wall

The CEO of the national lottery is doing exceptionally well in his job.

He gets to play with real money though in his monopoly

oppenheimer1

wowa wrote: »

'Personally I have no problem with the head of the NTMA getting million euro bonuses when his performance can cost hundreds of millions in interest payments. To get people with ability you have to pay the wages.'

Since when has the outcome of job failure had anything to do with rates of pay. What about a school bus driver- to the parents of the children he drives, he has far more responsibility than the boss of any financial institution. What about the doctor who has to make decisions, does she have cancer, doesn't she? Gets paid 90k euro. Don't get me wrong. 90k euro is a fine amount but not exactly a million.

What exactly do you have to pay to get people with ability? Is 300, 400, 500k euro any less appropriate for one man to take home each year? Just remember where you are and reign yourselves in for once. If Ireland really thinks it is competing for ability with the New York, London or the other huge markets, as these packages would suggest, think again. You remain on the verge of state bankrupcy with appalling unemployment secondary to too many people taking what isn't their's to take. This is no different and just because a bunch of TDs want jobs on the board when they finish their meddling doesn't change this.

Job rates are usually determined by the amount of responsibility and number of people with the skill set to do the job. The head of a treasury agency is a rather specialised job so that cuts down the pool of candidates. One also wants a good one which further reduces the available number of people. It is also responsible for finding the money to fill the gap in the budget. In a sense we do compete with other countries for people like these. The NTMA is tasked with having funds on hand at the cheapest available price. With a ballooning sovereign debt their job is more important now than ever. I am happy to pay the head his bonus if it means knocking one tenth of one percent off the interest which is many multiples of his pay packet.

Penny wise, pound foolish comes to mind.

JJJJNR

NTMA's Michael Somers received €1m in 2008.

ashleey

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

Job rates are usually determined by the amount of responsibility and number of people with the skill set to do the job. The head of a treasury agency is a rather specialised job so that cuts down the pool of candidates. One also wants a good one which further reduces the available number of people. It is also responsible for finding the money to fill the gap in the budget. In a sense we do compete with other countries for people like these. The NTMA is tasked with having funds on hand at the cheapest available price. With a ballooning sovereign debt their job is more important now than ever. I am happy to pay the head his bonus if it means knocking one tenth of one percent off the interest which is many multiples of his pay packet.

Penny wise, pound foolish comes to mind.

How much should the current guy get then?

He looks good for having 'pre-funded', but he'll have to go back to the market to fill in next year's gap

nice_guy80

the upper echelons of the Irish Civil Service, Public Service and workers in the Semi State companies have an unbelievable view of their own self worth and the perks of their positions (jobs). things like: never having to pay for meals, all travel costs covered, huge salaries, bonuses (for semi state companies - crazy!), cadillac pensions

especially when you compare them to similar jobs in the UK

they eally don't know how the rest of the country live

dunsandin

This tosh of "you have to pay XXXXXX to get talent" is trotted out time and time again. If we didn't pay Pat Kenny his big, slobbery package, he could run off to ITV, they say. Oh YEAH??? Like foreign Tv companies are queing up!!! He couldn't get a job on hospital radio in the UK for Gods sake. The same garbage is trotted out about top spot in state agencies. Oh, but they'd leave if we didn't pay them that. Would they?? And go where exactly. There are guys (and gals) working in far more pressurised, and equally taxing positions in the private sector for fractions of what these overblown lunch-merchants take home. The higher up they get, the less they do and the less they have to do -they have minions on tiny salaries actually crunching the numbers for them to deliver to the govt-they are figure heads, and if most had to go out and seek new employment, they would struggle to get a start as a middle manager in a private company, on €40k a year, if judged on merit, and not by who they know(or what they know about who they know) For most of these posts, 100k is too much, with a nice Audi A4 thrown in if you are good.(base spec)

hinault

JJJJNR wrote: »

NTMA's Michael Somers received €1m in 2008.

Shocking.



NTMA's Michael Somers received €1m in 2008


The former Chief Executive of the National Treasury Management Agency, Michael Somers, received a total pay package of €1m in 2008, including a bonus of €400,000.
In a decision to release the records, Information Commissioner Emily O'Reilly, criticised the Department of Finance for the way in which the NTMA head's salary was decided, saying it should be more transparent.
Mr Somers retired in 2009 after 48 years in the public service, including 20 years managing the country's debt with the NTMA.
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Details of his salary have always been kept secret, but have now been revealed to RTÉ News in a Freedom of Information request confirming that Michael Somers was the highest paid civil servant at that time.
Mr Somers received a salary of €565,000 and a bonus of €403,000. He also received €30,000 as a Commissioner of the National Pensions Reserve Fund.

When the Department of Finance agreed to release these details one year ago, Mr Somers appealed that decision to the Information Commissioner, who said the information should be revealed because it concerned public money.
But she reserved some harsh criticism for the way the salary was decided.
The NTMA's advisory committee comes up with the figure and the Minister for Finance signs off on it.

She said the remuneration process was quite extraordinary and she criticised the fact that there is no paper trail supporting it no officials present at the meeting between the Minister and the Chairperson of the NTMA's remuneration committee.

Mr Somers' overall pay for 2007 cannot be revealed because the department has no record whatsoever of the figure.
The NTMA still does not reveal its top salary figures and has also been criticised this week by the Comptroller and Auditor General for hiring expensive advisors.

The confirmation that their pay has reached €1m will shine a further spotlight on the costs of the body in charge of NAMA

Japer

dunsandin wrote: »

This tosh of "you have to pay XXXXXX to get talent" is trotted out time and time again. If we didn't pay Pat Kenny his big, slobbery package, he could run off to ITV, they say. Oh YEAH??? Like foreign Tv companies are queing up!!! He couldn't get a job on hospital radio in the UK for Gods sake. The same garbage is trotted out about top spot in state agencies. Oh, but they'd leave if we didn't pay them that. Would they?? And go where exactly. There are guys (and gals) working in far more pressurised, and equally taxing positions in the private sector for fractions of what these overblown lunch-merchants take home. The higher up they get, the less they do and the less they have to do -they have minions on tiny salaries actually crunching the numbers for them to deliver to the govt-they are figure heads, and if most had to go out and seek new employment, they would struggle to get a start as a middle manager in a private company, on €40k a year, if judged on merit, and not by who they know(or what they know about who they know) For most of these posts, 100k is too much, with a nice Audi A4 thrown in if you are good.(base spec)

+1. Its time the taxpayers of the country stood up and stopped the public servants , and the public servant pensioners, many of whom are on a pension more than the industrial wage, ripping everyone off.

ardmacha

€1 million is a huge amount of money and it is difficult to believe that such a sum was required. However had Somers been in charge of the whole thing we might not be in such a mess. In 2006 he stopped lodging NTMA money in Anglo, and in 2008 he borrowed an extra €20Bn at low rates as a buffer for the times ahaead. This may yet prove to be the critical. Overpayment is bad, but overpayment for competance is less bad than the all too frequent over payment for incompetance.

dunsandin

ardmacha wrote: »

€1 million is a huge amount of money and it is difficult to believe that such a sum was required. However had Somers been in charge of the whole thing we might not be in such a mess. In 2006 he stopped lodging NTMA money in Anglo, and in 2008 he borrowed an extra €20Bn at low rates as a buffer for the times ahaead. This may yet prove to be the critical. Overpayment is bad, but overpayment for competance is less bad than the all too frequent over payment for incompetance.

Which they threw down the jax that we now refer to as Anglo. He's some dude.
I reckon if I was given €500 million I would own everything below Dundalk at this stage - I have to make my paltry sum stretch so far every day to keep my business running that I could almost take over the world with €100 million. And im not really joking either. They are in a different world, and its way weirder and less in touch with reality than Narnia was.

dan_d

Actually if he had been in any way influential in gov policy, we mightn't be in this mess. I know he says he had no facts that anything was wrong at Anglo, but he must have known something. He had a gut feeling...surely there was more than that.

Fair play to the man for being in some way far-sighted....in other words, doing his job and not being afraid to go against any pressures from vested groups.It's a pity there aren't a few more like him out there.

I'd question that 20bn...I would imagine if we didn't have it, it would be another 20bn we would have been paying massive interest on...

dunsandin

dan_d wrote: »

Actually if he had been in any way influential in gov policy, we mightn't be in this mess. I know he says he had no facts that anything was wrong at Anglo, but he must have known something. He had a gut feeling...surely there was more than that.

Fair play to the man for being in some way far-sighted....in other words, doing his job and not being afraid to go against any pressures from vested groups.It's a pity there aren't a few more like him out there.

I'd question that 20bn...I would imagine if we didn't have it, it would be another 20bn we would have been paying massive interest on...[/QUOTE]


Stick around Dan, another 20Bn will be along in no time. Sadly. Swimmer and down the plughole spring to mind.