MSc in Computer Science by Negotiated Learning

pgucd

Hi All,

So I have been accepted on the MSc in Computer Science by Negotiated Learning course and it seems that a good number of students join this course every year but there isn't much information available to new or current students!

Might be a good idea for any current or new students who will join in September to post here on how they are getting on.

This course is unique in the sense that students get to choose the modules they want to do from a list of module offerings, unlike traditional courses. And so it will be interesting to know how everyone is getting on in terms of the choices of modules and a little feedback on those modules. This might be of use to students who have yet to make a decision.

Advice and feedback from past students or students from other postgraduate Computer Science courses in UCD are more than welcome!

Good Luck to all the new students joining in September as well as the current students who are in the final stage of this course.

omnisynergy

Be interesting to hear what you think about the conversion course in comparison:
http://www.csi.ucd.ie/content/msc-computer-science-conversion
I've been accepted and I'm a Fine Art graduate so I have to wonder how easy that will be for me!

omnisynergy

OSI wrote: »

Will be very difficult for you unless you're particularly handy with Math etc...

Well I guess I'm not too bad with math...

pgucd

omnisynergy wrote: »

Be interesting to hear what you think about the conversion course in comparison:
http://www.csi.ucd.ie/content/msc-computer-science-conversion
I've been accepted and I'm a Fine Art graduate so I have to wonder how easy that will be for me!

The conversion course is exactly that "a conversion course". It will help Non-Computer Science graduates to have a basic understanding of three streams in IT that is Programming, Databases and Networks. It is far too basic by what I can see and I don't know why this course is called a masters course as you don't actually specialise in anything by masters standards. There is hardly any maths involved. The little that is included is at most of ordinary level LC standard.

The good thing about this is that you will have an understanding of computer science at almost the same level of an undergraduate and spend less than 1/3 of the time compared to getting to that level doing an undergraduate degree.

But at the end of the day I doubt you will get a programming or database or network administrator etc job with this degree... I guess you will have to do another course before any IT company will actually consider you for a job over an undergraduate with a high grade. For all you know, even a pass class undergraduate might be better qualified over the 4 years...

Coming to the 30 credits modules you have to choose in the 4th semester, you will have to do very well in your previous modules before they will even consider you for the 4th semester. I have no idea what the modules will be like but I guess there will be some restrictions to what you can choose.

I am really surprised that you only have to do a 15 credit project... masters students to a 30 credit project and undergraduates do at least a 15 credit project with most doing a 20 credit project. So here again I don't know why this is called a masters course.

To be honest with you I don't know the direction which UCD is going in by offering these courses! I would have expected this from DBS or the like, not UCD. I say this because it is highly unlikely you will understand and come up to the level to be considered employable. UCD also offered a 1 week java course, last year i think, which stated that you will be brought up to the standard set out by Sun for the certified exams. How it is possible to grasp over 500 pages of text and code in a week(around 20 hours) is beyond my understanding... I wouldn't be surprised if they offer a "be a bank manager" in a week course at this rate... or an MBA Conversion for Agriculture/Forestry/etc students in a year etc... it just doesn't click.

I wouldn't worry to much about it being easy or difficult. Now that UCD has made this course they will see that it is really easy for the students to at least pass considering that this course is funded by the HEA. And because all students will have no idea what they are doing and so will start from scratch.

High failure rates = below average course = loss of funding = loss to UCD :rolleyes:

High pass rate = good course = more places = more funds.

(The above two lines are what I think, might not actually be true but this is usually the way funding is decided. More places = more funds.)

omnisynergy

pgucd wrote: »

The conversion course is exactly that "a conversion course". It will help Non-Computer Science graduates to have a basic understanding of three streams in IT that is Programming, Databases and Networks. It is far too basic by what I can see and I don't know why this course is called a masters course as you don't actually specialise in anything by masters standards. There is hardly any maths involved. The little that is included is at most of ordinary level LC standard.

The good thing about this is that you will have an understanding of computer science at almost the same level of an undergraduate and spend less than 1/3 of the time compared to getting to that level doing an undergraduate degree.

But at the end of the day I doubt you will get a programming or database or network administrator etc job with this degree... I guess you will have to do another course before any IT company will actually consider you for a job over an undergraduate with a high grade. For all you know, even a pass class undergraduate might be better qualified over the 4 years...

Coming to the 30 credits modules you have to choose in the 4th semester, you will have to do very well in your previous modules before they will even consider you for the 4th semester. I have no idea what the modules will be like but I guess there will be some restrictions to what you can choose.

I am really surprised that you only have to do a 15 credit project... masters students to a 30 credit project and undergraduates do at least a 15 credit project with most doing a 20 credit project. So here again I don't know why this is called a masters course.

To be honest with you I don't know the direction which UCD is going in by offering these courses! I would have expected this from DBS or the like, not UCD. I say this because it is highly unlikely you will understand and come up to the level to be considered employable. UCD also offered a 1 week java course, last year i think, which stated that you will be brought up to the standard set out by Sun for the certified exams. How it is possible to grasp over 500 pages of text and code in a week(around 20 hours) is beyond my understanding... I wouldn't be surprised if they offer a "be a bank manager" in a week course at this rate... or an MBA Conversion for Agriculture/Forestry/etc students in a year etc... it just doesn't click.

I wouldn't worry to much about it being easy or difficult. Now that UCD has made this course they will see that it is really easy for the students to at least pass considering that this course is funded by the HEA. And because all students will have no idea what they are doing and so will start from scratch.

High failure rates = below average course = loss of funding = loss to UCD :rolleyes:

High pass rate = good course = more places = more funds.

(The above two lines are what I think, might not actually be true but this is usually the way funding is decided. More places = more funds.)

Thanks for the info! Good to hear about the level of maths! I think this is the first year of the course so I would also presume they are looking for a high pass rate... I do think it's a bit of a ridiculous idea. Still though, won't this mean I have a level 9 as opposed to a level 8 if I had done the undergraduate degree?
Does this mean we'll be attending a lot of the undergraduate lectures?

patriks

In response to the MSc in Computer Science (Conversion) posts, there were a few issues I hoped to make reference to.
As I had hoped to move from an economics background, I had carried out a little research on the characteristics of the programme, and to be totally honest, whilst there are some shortcomings which pgucd has alluded to, it doesn't look too bad.

pgucd wrote: »

The conversion course is exactly that "a conversion course". It will help Non-Computer Science graduates to have a basic understanding of three streams in IT that is Programming, Databases and Networks.

This is more or less bang on. It's a pretty succinct but accurate summary of the course aims.

pgucd wrote: »

It is far too basic by what I can see and I don't know why this course is called a masters course as you don't actually specialise in anything by masters standards.

Well, the reason it's called a masters course is because the final semester's content is of a masters standard. In fact, the options for this module are taken directly from the MSc by negotiated learning. So, essentially, assuming candidates are successful (they have to meet or exceed a certain grade threshold in order to proceed to the final semester), they enter the MSc stream. However, I accept that the usage of the "MSc" title isn't entirely conventional, but due to the final semester's content, it's not purely a H.Dip either. I guess that's why it's called a "conversion" masters: not a typical masters, but not a H.Dip.

pgucd wrote: »

But at the end of the day I doubt you will get a programming or database or network administrator etc job with this degree... I guess you will have to do another course before any IT company will actually consider you for a job over an undergraduate with a high grade. For all you know, even a pass class undergraduate might be better qualified over the 4 years...

Whilst a possibility, this isn't entirely correct. Of course, this programme is shorter in duration than a traditional undergraduate degree, but it has been configured such that it harmonises with the requirements of many IT employment opportunities. It is a 15-month intensive and focused programme. I am familiar with a number of individuals who have completed similar conversion courses who have found respectable positions in the IT field across the country and further afield.
This course is shorter in duration than an undergraduate degree, but that's because it neglects to incorporate much of the theoretical computational science which populates these undergraduate programmes. This content isn't necessarily a requisite for many prospective positions. However, naturally, for some ambitions to become reality, one would need to undertake further education (as would an undergraduate after their primary degree). As the programme provides a substantial foundation, the opportunity of further study remains open should a student choose this option. Whilst researching this course, the director informed me that a number of past-graduates from this course (it used to be the HDip in Computer Science minus the masters content) had, in fact, gone on to undertake Ph.D positions. This would imply a considerable level of competency in the arena of computer science.
Furthermore, many graduates from physics, mathematics, engineering, etc. have gone on to hold important positions in computer science and IT notwithstanding the fact that their aggregated experience with computer science would equate to that offered by this programme (and, in some cases, fall under).

pgucd wrote: »

To be honest with you I don't know the direction which UCD is going in by offering these courses! I would have expected this from DBS or the like, not UCD. I say this because it is highly unlikely you will understand and come up to the level to be considered employable. UCD also offered a 1 week java course, last year i think, which stated that you will be brought up to the standard set out by Sun for the certified exams. How it is possible to grasp over 500 pages of text and code in a week(around 20 hours) is beyond my understanding... I wouldn't be surprised if they offer a "be a bank manager" in a week course at this rate... or an MBA Conversion for Agriculture/Forestry/etc students in a year etc... it just doesn't click.

Well, conversion courses--including computer science conversion courses--are not unique to UCD. Many respected institutions such as Oxford, University College London and Imperial College London offer similar one year programmes (incidentally, these are shorter than UCD's equivalent). By the way, these other courses are given the title "MSc" too.

pgucd wrote: »

High failure rates = below average course = loss of funding = loss to UCD

High pass rate = good course = more places = more funds.

(The above two lines are what I think, might not actually be true but this is usually the way funding is decided. More places = more funds.)

Well, maybe... But I'm pretty sure the reason these courses are so heavily funded--as are postgraduate programmes in biotech and environmental engineering--is concerned with the push towards the "smart economy.":eek:

omnisynergy

Thanks for the positive spin patriks. I have a friend who did the undergraduate in computer science and he had a few similar ideas about it.

Royale with Cheese

I did the 1 year I.T grad dip in DCU and then went straight onto the Masters by neg. learning in UCD. Did very well in both courses and have got myself a decent programming job. My undergrad was an Arts degree.

From what I've seen the new conversion course in UCD looks decent enough. It might not be enough to get you a job right now, but very little is. I haven't looked at the content in a while but from what I remember the stuff you do in semesters 1 + 2 seems far more useful than what I did in DCU. Then you end up picking modules from the masters class. You can pick basically any modules you want in UCD computer science, timetable permitting. I didn't do any postgrad modules whatsoever in UCD, mostly just 4th year stuff. Did a couple of postgrad modules out in DCU but I don't think you can anymore.

I wouldn't knock these courses. If you put the work in and get a good grade then I can't see why you'd be completely worthless to an employer next to an average bachelor's graduate. Even a lot of the 4th year stuff I did in UCD I'll never use again, I also found it very easy considering I had half the experience the undergrads would have had at that point.

As far as maths goes, I got a C in higher level at leaving cert but hadn't done any in the 6 years since I left school before I started in DCU. Didn't find any maths difficult in the DCU course, that was mostly 1st + 2nd year stuff. In the UCD masters, there were modules that required decent mathematical ability so I just avoided them.

pgucd

Induction for this negotiated programme takes place over two days on Sept 1st & 2nd. Today was the first day and it was very informative! The schedule is available here.

Plenty of modules have been added and so now students have a wider choice of modules which they can choose from.

This is only the second year the course is running and it really looks very good value as it was short listed, top 5, for the postgraduate course of the year in the science & engineering field, among other reasons.

Good luck to all the students on the course. The next few weeks will be really intense!

CerebralCortex

To the OP I was just wondering if you have any tips on the statement of interest? It's required it seems for the application, I'm not sure what's expected.

CerebralCortex

So who's been accepted this year?

CerebralCortex

CerebralCortex wrote: »

So who's been accepted this year?

Bump. Anyone? No?

Joneser

The negotiated learning masters seems to have been increased in demand this year with the number of applications increasing and the standard of them being much better than last year. I just graduated and got a job but I'm thinking about going to post-grad study next year so if you have been accepted to this I'd love to hear about your experience of it

CerebralCortex

Joneser wrote: »

The negotiated learning masters seems to have been increased in demand this year with the number of applications increasing and the standard of them being much better than last year. I just graduated and got a job but I'm thinking about going to post-grad study next year so if you have been accepted to this I'd love to hear about your experience of it

What subjects did you choose?

Joneser

Well I just finished a Computer Science degree. I am working at the moment instead of doing the masters but I may go back to it in the future, if I do it it will probably be the modules involving mobile development and signal processing. Have you been accepted to it yourself?

eleni_som

Hi everyone!:)
I got accepted! Any help for choosing modules???

Joneser

Congratulations, you will have to let me know what you think of it as I may do it in the future

As for selecting modules, it depends a lot on what areas of computer science you are interested. I went through the process of picking them before and you just need to go through the list first and cross off any that you definitely dont want to do. Then just keep going until you have only the modules left to obtain the required credits.

Out of interest what area of computer science do you like the most? And have you done any computer related courses in the past?