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66 public servants paid more than Brian Cowen... go figure

  • 06-08-2010 10:28am
    #1
    the_dark_side
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭


    There was also an article about the same story in last week's Sunday Independant where it was disclosed that Corrigan, head of NTMA, earns €900,000 per anum.... links to the story have now been 'pulled', there is no trace of it anywhere online.
    But the Sunday Tribune still have their article here

    http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jun/13/route-66-the-public-servants-paid-more-than-the-ta/

    ever wonder why a story like this barely raises an eyebrow? Its a total scandal


Comments

  • #2
    bobbysands81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,218 ✭✭✭bobbysands81


    I'm struggling to see any relevance in the fact that there are higher paid public servants in the State than Brian Cowen... why is it relevant that they're public servants? Why not "workers" and include private sector fellas as well?

    Unless... this is yet another paintallpublicsectorworkersasthesameandbashthem thread?


  • #3
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    The head of NAMA and NTMA deserve to be well paid.
    If they succeed at their jobs then it's money well spent

    Somebody responsible for tens of billions might not be overpaid but at the same time someone on 25k and does little more then photocopying may be overpaid for what they do.

    Don't just look at the headline salary


  • #4
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    I've no objection to anybody being well paid although some of the salaries I've seen are hard to justify. What I do object to is when these people f*ck up and suffer no sanction.


  • #5
    monkeypants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    What sanction do you suggest?


  • #6
    bamboozle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    its no wonder we're broke, i'd love to see an article examing the boards of the quango's to see how many FFer's are placed on them.

    Bertie Ahern has a lot to answer for.


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  • #7
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    monkeypants wrote: »
    What sanction do you suggest?

    The same sanction anybody else who is not within a particular sphere of influence might suffer.
    It appears to me that there is a certain level in Irish society above which, to f*ck up big time costing huge losses in both monetary and employment terms, is not seen as a "sackable" offence. The worst these people can expect is for their contracts to be terminated, this is not the same as being sacked for incompetence and usually results in large compensation payouts.
    At what point in history and at what level on the ladder did the concept of, "You f*cked up, you're useless, collect your cards and f*ck off", cease to apply?
    Have these people had it written into their contracts, that actually being able to do the job is not a condition of employment?
    I've worked in both the public and private sectors and while this is more prevalent in the public sector, it is certainly not unknown in the private sector.


  • #8
    monkeypants
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,386 ✭✭✭monkeypants


    I know loads of people who are complete amateurs, but rarely are they sacked for it. Having said that, the majority of people that I've met are trying to do a good job, even if they're not succeeding. What I'd rather see sanctions for is feathering one's own nest.


  • #9
    danbohan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,914 ✭✭✭danbohan


    the_dark_side wrote: »
    There was also an article about the same story in last week's Sunday Independant where it was disclosed that Corrigan, head of NTMA, earns €900,000 per anum.... links to the story have now been 'pulled', there is no trace of it anywhere online.
    But the Sunday Tribune still have their article here

    http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jun/13/route-66-the-public-servants-paid-more-than-the-ta/

    ever wonder why a story like this barely raises an eyebrow? Its a total scandal


    thats very unfair of you , i am sure thease public servants are equally as good if not better at their jobs than our dear leader !


  • #10
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    danbohan wrote: »
    thats very unfair of you , i am sure thease public servants are equally as good if not better at their jobs than our dear leader !


    Now that's just setting the bar too high.


  • #11
    the_dark_side
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭the_dark_side


    danbohan wrote: »
    thats very unfair of you , i am sure thease public servants are equally as good if not better at their jobs than our dear leader !
    stop, your making me feel guilty :pac:

    All jokes aside... a much more revealing article that appeared in the Sunday Indo, August 25th July, written by a man called Daniel McConnell, has vanished from the Indo archives. I think it was titled 'High fliers, who still live in a public state of grace..' In the article it detailed the salary of the head of the NTMA (Mr. Corrigan), as being €900,000 plus expenses, adding to a total estimated package of €1.2million per anum... although this was stated to be an estimate, because the correct figure is not in the public realm.... and you can see why!
    It looks as if the story has been pulled, possibly under orders from these guy's solicitors. The irony is that the paper is called the Independent... without and independent media, a country looses its moral compass.


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  • #12
    Bottle_of_Smoke
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,770 ✭✭✭Bottle_of_Smoke


    bmaxi wrote: »
    I've no objection to anybody being well paid although some of the salaries I've seen are hard to justify. What I do object to is when these people f*ck up and suffer no sanction.

    Well lets say they had a bonus system. Like "Nama works out well... you get paid more" - there'd be outrage over that then.

    Its a real can't win situation


  • #13
    Laminations
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    Well lets say they had a bonus system. Like "Nama works out well... you get paid more" - there'd be outrage over that then.

    Its a real can't win situation

    I think people would actually appreciate an approach like that. Not a bonus though, just if NAMA works you get paid, if it doesn't you don't, I doubt the heads would accept that and it'd reveal NAMA for the sh1tpipe gamble that it is, the NAMA heads however are only happy to gamble with tax money on their guaranteed high wages


  • #14
    !Pablo Fanquez!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22 ✭!Pablo Fanquez!


    danbohan wrote: »
    thats very unfair of you , i am sure thease public servants are equally as good if not better at their jobs than our dear leader !

    Oh ho ho! Well said, my jolly good fellow!


  • #15
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »
    Well lets say they had a bonus system. Like "Nama works out well... you get paid more" - there'd be outrage over that then.

    Its a real can't win situation

    Forget the bonus, it's the whole bonus culture that has us where we are, you get paid to do a job.
    Put simply, if I pay a plumber to install a bath then that's what I want. I don't expect to come home to knee deep water and the ceiling falling in.
    I certainly don't say, "good try, better luck next time, here's your money anyway and a few bob for luck".


  • #16
    cyclopath2001
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,359 ✭✭✭cyclopath2001


    the_dark_side wrote: »
    The irony is that the paper is called the Independent... without and independent media, a country looses its moral compass.
    The 'Independent' is merely independent of proper journalism. It's useful as a means knowing what the ruling class wants you to think.


  • #17
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,519 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    the_dark_side wrote: »
    There was also an article about the same story in last week's Sunday Independant where it was disclosed that Corrigan, head of NTMA, earns €900,000 per anum.... links to the story have now been 'pulled', there is no trace of it anywhere online.
    But the Sunday Tribune still have their article here

    http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/jun/13/route-66-the-public-servants-paid-more-than-the-ta/

    ever wonder why a story like this barely raises an eyebrow? Its a total scandal

    I don't see where the outrage is here. Outside of banana republics - of which we're not too far off - I'd imagine that it is incredibly unusual for most countries leaders to be the highest paid person from the public purse.


  • #18
    the_dark_side
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭the_dark_side


    Oafley Jones wrote: »
    I don't see where the outrage is here. Outside of banana republics - of which we're not too far off - I'd imagine that it is incredibly unusual for most countries leaders to be the highest paid person from the public purse.

    yes, this is the way that the Tribune worded their headline,... I am more shocked at the fact that the man in charge of NTMA (which I have only recently heard of) is on a salary of €900,000+.... and the article in the paper that detailed the figures, was dubiously pulled from the website on Monday


  • #19
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    the_dark_side wrote: »
    yes, this is the way that the Tribune worded their headline,... I am more shocked at the fact that the man in charge of NTMA (which I have only recently heard of) is on a salary of €900,000+.... and the article in the paper that detailed the figures, was dubiously pulled from the website on Monday

    I have no idea why the article was pulled, but I was well aware that the NTMA are the best paying public body and generally considered excellent at what they do, but they also operate very different contracts to the PS norm.


  • #20
    Deep Easterly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,150 ✭✭✭Deep Easterly


    danbohan wrote: »
    thats very unfair of you , i am sure thease public servants are equally as good if not better at their jobs than our dear leader !

    True, but does that justify their gross fat cat salaries? About time the civil and public service of this country was overhauled completely.


  • #21
    OhNoYouDidn't
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Deep Easterly wrote: »
    True, but does that justify their gross fat cat salaries? About time the civil and public service of this country was overhauled completely.


    I would be flabbergasted if 50 of those 66 are not doctors/specialists and judges. The rest are specialised public servants like the NTMA head honchos. And all of them would make more in the private sector.

    Not one of them are civil servants.


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  • #22
    femur61
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭femur61


    bobbysands81 wrote: »
    I'm struggling to see any relevance in the fact that there are higher paid public servants in the State than Brian Cowen... why is it relevant that they're public servants? Why not "workers" and include private sector fellas as well?

    I'd the relevance is that the rest of the working public actually pay their wages (public sector). We do have a right to question where our hard taxes are paying!


  • #23
    the_dark_side
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭the_dark_side


    femur61 wrote: »
    I'd the relevance is that the rest of the working public actually pay their wages (public sector). We do have a right to question where our hard taxes are paying!

    yep.. exactly. If the rest of the working public are paying their wages, then how can we be told 'the salary details are not in the public realm'. Try telling someone from Australia, New Zealand, Canada, UK, USA, and Euro zone country this and see the reaction...
    Im sure the Germans would be particularly impressed when you consider that Ireland has had to make yet another application for €€, this time for 8bn, which will go straight into the black hole which is Anglo Irish Bank.


  • #24
    writer64
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 ✭writer64


    Brian Cowen is paid more than he is worth to this country.
    There are no civil servants in any department who are value for money.
    Reality checks are over due for civil servants.The country is broke.That is the Government is bankrupt.
    Where is this money comming from to pay third rate civil servants or disgraced public representatives.
    One little costing is:
    every Ministerial merc or other state car costs euro 200,000 per year.
    To move these brilliant people around the poor country.
    The British parliament has done away with this rubbish.They cannot afford this .Most European politicians take public transport like all other non dictators and non mobstes.


  • #25
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »
    I would be flabbergasted if 50 of those 66 are not doctors/specialists and judges. The rest are specialised public servants like the NTMA head honchos. And all of them would make more in the private sector.

    Not one of them are civil servants.

    I hear this all the time "they would make more in the private sector", why aren't they there then? Are we to believe that these people are all altruists?
    If they are the best man for the job, then they are there because that's where they are getting the best deal. Forget up front salary figures, as we know from experience, they mean nothing in the public sector.


  • #26
    the_dark_side
    Closed Accounts Posts: 595 ✭✭✭the_dark_side


    *interesting to hear the ESB intend to increase rates in yesterday's news

    1. Arts Council - Director Salary: €114,366
    2. Bord Bia - CEO Salary: €151,261
    3. Bord Gáis - CEO Salary: in the range of €237,660 to €297,024.
    4. Bord Iascaigh Mhara - CEO Salary: €121,919
    5. Bord na Móna - Managing director €301,000

    6. Pensions Board - CEO Salary: €150,717
    7. Bord Pleanála - CEO Salary: €220,348
    8. Breast Check - CEO Salary: €139,761
    9. Broadcasting Commission of Ireland - CEO Salary: Unavailable
    10. CIE Group - Group executive chairman:Salary €264,990

    11. Central Fisheries Board - CEO Salary: office did not reveal salary
    12. Coillte - CEO Remuneration: €409,000
    13. Commission for Aviation Regulation - Commissioner Salary: €203,379
    14. Commission for Energy Regulation - Commissioner Salary: €169,415
    15. Commission for Communications Regulation - Chairman Salary: €169,415

    16. Commission for Taxi Regulation - Commissioner Salary: "I am not at liberty to disclose such information."
    17. Competition Authority - Chair Salary: unavailable
    18. The Digital Hub - CEO Salary: €187,000
    19. Dublin Airport Authority - CEO Remuneration: €698,000 (source: 2007 annual report; Salary: €333,000, bonus: €167,000, fees: €17,000, Pension contribution and other taxable benefits €181,000)
    20. Dublin Docklands Development Authority - CEO Salary: €151,261

    21. Dublin Port Company - CEO Salary: unavailable
    22. Dublin Transportation Office - CEO Salary: €136,581
    23. ESB - CEO Remuneration: €534,998
    24. Enterprise Ireland - CEO Salary: €222,488
    25. Environmental Protection Agency - Director general Salary: €177,547

    26. The Equality Authority - CEO Salary: €147,000
    27. Fás - Director general: Rody Molloy - Salary: €212,000-€222,488
    28. Food Safety Authority of Ireland - CEO Salary: €154,775
    29. Forfás - CEO Salary: €212,000-€222,488
    30. Health and Safety Authority - CEO Salary: €158,644

    31. Health Information and Quality Authority - CEO Salary: €199,502
    32. Health Research Board - CEO Remuneration : €143,192
    33. Health Service Executive - CEO Salary: €358,000
    34. Higher Education Authority - CEO Salary: €131,748-€150,712
    35. Horse Racing Ireland - CEO Salary: €163,000

    36. Housing Finance Agency - CEO Salary: €126,000
    37. Human Rights Commission - President Salary: €237,000
    38. IDA Ireland - CEO Salary: €201,683
    39. Irish Aviation Authority - CEO Remuneration : €350,000
    40. Bord na gCon - CEO Salary: €155,833

    41. Irish Blood Transfusion Service - CEO Salary: €167,979.50
    42. Irish Sports Council - CEO Salary: €114,366
    43. National Consumer Agency - CEO Salary: unavailable
    44. National Lottery - CEO Salary: €276,000
    45. National Treasury Management Agency - CEO Salary: €980,000

    46. National Roads Authority - CEO Salary: not publicly available
    47. An Post - CEO Remuneration: €414,000
    48. Rail Procurement Agency - CEO Remuneration: €268,000
    49. Teagasc - Director Salary: €151,261 + bonus
    50. VHI - CEO Remuneration: €297,000


  • #27
    Laminations
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,693 ✭✭✭Laminations


    the_dark_side wrote: »
    *interesting to hear the ESB intend to increase rates in yesterday's news

    1. Arts Council - Director Salary: €114,366
    2. Bord Bia - CEO Salary: €151,261
    3. Bord Gáis - CEO Salary: in the range of €237,660 to €297,024.
    4. Bord Iascaigh Mhara - CEO Salary: €121,919
    5. Bord na Móna - Managing director €301,000

    6. Pensions Board - CEO Salary: €150,717
    7. Bord Pleanála - CEO Salary: €220,348
    8. Breast Check - CEO Salary: €139,761
    9. Broadcasting Commission of Ireland - CEO Salary: Unavailable
    10. CIE Group - Group executive chairman:Salary €264,990

    11. Central Fisheries Board - CEO Salary: office did not reveal salary
    12. Coillte - CEO Remuneration: €409,000
    13. Commission for Aviation Regulation - Commissioner Salary: €203,379
    14. Commission for Energy Regulation - Commissioner Salary: €169,415
    15. Commission for Communications Regulation - Chairman Salary: €169,415

    16. Commission for Taxi Regulation - Commissioner Salary: "I am not at liberty to disclose such information."
    17. Competition Authority - Chair Salary: unavailable
    18. The Digital Hub - CEO Salary: €187,000
    19. Dublin Airport Authority - CEO Remuneration: €698,000 (source: 2007 annual report; Salary: €333,000, bonus: €167,000, fees: €17,000, Pension contribution and other taxable benefits €181,000)
    20. Dublin Docklands Development Authority - CEO Salary: €151,261

    21. Dublin Port Company - CEO Salary: unavailable
    22. Dublin Transportation Office - CEO Salary: €136,581
    23. ESB - CEO Remuneration: €534,998
    24. Enterprise Ireland - CEO Salary: €222,488
    25. Environmental Protection Agency - Director general Salary: €177,547

    26. The Equality Authority - CEO Salary: €147,000
    27. Fás - Director general: Rody Molloy - Salary: €212,000-€222,488
    28. Food Safety Authority of Ireland - CEO Salary: €154,775
    29. Forfás - CEO Salary: €212,000-€222,488
    30. Health and Safety Authority - CEO Salary: €158,644

    31. Health Information and Quality Authority - CEO Salary: €199,502
    32. Health Research Board - CEO Remuneration : €143,192
    33. Health Service Executive - CEO Salary: €358,000
    34. Higher Education Authority - CEO Salary: €131,748-€150,712
    35. Horse Racing Ireland - CEO Salary: €163,000

    36. Housing Finance Agency - CEO Salary: €126,000
    37. Human Rights Commission - President Salary: €237,000
    38. IDA Ireland - CEO Salary: €201,683
    39. Irish Aviation Authority - CEO Remuneration : €350,000
    40. Bord na gCon - CEO Salary: €155,833

    41. Irish Blood Transfusion Service - CEO Salary: €167,979.50
    42. Irish Sports Council - CEO Salary: €114,366
    43. National Consumer Agency - CEO Salary: unavailable
    44. National Lottery - CEO Salary: €276,000
    45. National Treasury Management Agency - CEO Salary: €980,000

    46. National Roads Authority - CEO Salary: not publicly available
    47. An Post - CEO Remuneration: €414,000
    48. Rail Procurement Agency - CEO Remuneration: €268,000
    49. Teagasc - Director Salary: €151,261 + bonus
    50. VHI - CEO Remuneration: €297,000

    These ridiculously high salaries and people are debating the minimum wage? Where is the performance related part of their job? What if NTMA dont turn a profit with NAMA? How many of those semi-states are running at a loss? How many of those bodies are duplications and should be subsumed into single entities?


  • #28
    writer64
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 ✭writer64


    laminations
    thanks you prove my argument with those figures.
    Why are private incomes compared with public service incomes?

    There is no way of comparing productive initiative in the private sector with all the risk taking etc involved.
    Sheltered civil service employment is like sheltered housing.The civil service protects weak ,inadequate and sub standard workers from the hard reality of the private sector.
    Then we pay for this third rate civil service.In the private sectr income hs to be earned.
    I am dealing here with the civil service administration persons.

    There is no argument to justify civil servants being linked with any private sector group.
    Average wages for average work with promotions and incremental payments for better workers must be the criteria for civil servants.
    :confused:
    If there are civil servants who feel the lure of better pay exists for them ... let them go for it.Resign from sheltered non competitive , safe , pampered employment .:confused::confused::confused:


  • #29
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    writer64 wrote: »
    Then we pay for this third rate civil service.In the private sectr income hs to be earned.

    The civil service in Ireland isn't that large.
    And just about every example in that list isn't the civil service though

    I'd love to work for the National Lottery.
    Is there any better job then handing out prizes to winners every week? :)


  • #30
    writer64
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8 ✭writer64


    feeling stressed
    next best thing to a lotto win is to win a Dail or Senad seat.
    Consolation prizes are special advisers and semi state directorships .family members and extended social network of friends ( preferably rich friends) will place aspirants on a very short list.
    No equal opportunities bull s**t for our politicans and their favourites.
    No advertising standards of fair play .No qualifications required.Dumb is ok .
    :p:p:p

    So find a politican and start working from his/her rear end .
    There may be entry difficulties.


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