marathon in training for a marahon?

menoscemo

HI all, just looking for advice on the following.
I am considering running the longford marathon as training for the DCM. Basically I have only ran one marathon before, DCM2009, where i completely hit the wall and bonked after 19 miles. I was heading for a 4hr finish but ended up finishing in 4hr 15.
Anyway My training has much improved this year and my PB's have dropped dramatically (5k from 22 to 20 minutes, Hm from 108 to 97 minutes etc). So I am considering dropping one of the P&D prescribed 20 mile LSR's to do the Longford marathon instead. The idea would be to do it at a steady pace (9min/mile) and finish under 4 hrs. I have been following the P&D 55 mpw plan aiming for a 3:30 DCM (8min/mile).
I am thinking that running he full 26.2 miles will boost my confidence that I'll be able to last the disatnce in a marathon while still being a beneficial trainnng run. I am still a little worried that I won't last the distance but hope I can be disciplined to run this race at a training pace.
Basically I am wondering, is this a good idea?

Krusty_Clown

I have done it a couple of times and would have to say that it's not the greatest of plans. If you're planning on pushing yourself in DCM, then running Longford mid-plan is more than likely going to be counter-productive.

In 2008 I ran Longford as my first marathon, and run Dublin subsequently, but that was different as my focus was on on Longford, rather than Dublin (Dublin was for fun). In 2009 I ran Connemara as a training run for Edinburgh (pacing a friend at a comfortable pace), and I never made it to the starting line of Edinburgh, due to an injury brought on by trying to jump back into the P&D training plan too soon. This year I ran Bogtrotters at a comfortable pace and that turned into an ultramarathon. A couple of things spring to mind:
1) Be under no illusions, your DCM training will suffer as a consequence
2) The strategy rarely provides any benefits
3) I'm an idiot who doesn't learn from his mistakes

Woddle

I've done it also and would recommend against doing it.
Trust your training

chinguetti

I read somewhere a few years backs that Carlos Lopez ran Rotterdam (i think) in 1984 and pulled out at 20 miles as he was using it as a training run and just wanted to see how his training was going. Come LA a few months later, he won a gold medal and was running with some of the guys who battled to the finish line in Rotterdam but he knew they were spent come 18 miles when he looked at them.

I'm in the same boat as you Meno, 2nd marathon and training going ok but i've decided on not doing a half 2 months prior to DCM. I'm doing shorter races as it takes less out of my legs and despite my best efforts, when i'm in a race the competitive edge takes over and whatever my plan of x mins a mile goes out the window.

However, there's better people for advice on here than me but i'ld say to save yourself for the DCM.

menoscemo

Thanks lads, that's pretty unanimous. I think I'll give longford a miss.

BigBadTom

Hi menoscemo,

Don't really have enough experience to advise you, but saw this race online and it might be a good alternative to the Longford marathon. Its around 20 miles
Their tag line is that they will guarantee a PB .

http://www.athlone3quarter.com/

Aimman

I was going to make the controversial post about going for Longford as an LSR for Dublin, but in reflection, if you hit the wall again in Longford because you haven't built up to it properly in the P&D training, then psychologically, it might be on your mind coming up to Dublin and feck up your confidence on the day. In addition, Longford is a quiet race in a lot of places, so you wont have the crowd to drive you along if you need it.

You're training is coming on very well at the moment, and you should be well able for Dublin with no problems. Why do you think you crashed at 19M? was it lack of gels/water or not enough distance covered in training? I reckon once you know what was the root cause, you'll be able for it in October.

You could look at running Longford Half at race pace, if you are looking for some sort of tune up, aim for just below 1:50.

village runner

Aimman wrote: »

I was going to make the controversial post about going for Longford as an LSR for Dublin, but in reflection, if you hit the wall again in Longford because you haven't built up to it properly in the P&D training, then psychologically, it might be on your mind coming up to Dublin and feck up your confidence on the day. In addition, Longford is a quiet race in a lot of places, so you wont have the crowd to drive you along if you need it.

You're training is coming on very well at the moment, and you should be well able for Dublin with no problems. Why do you think you crashed at 19M? was it lack of gels/water or not enough distance covered in training? I reckon once you know what was the root cause, you'll be able for it in October.

You could look at running Longford Half at race pace, if you are looking for some sort of tune up, aim for just below 1:50.

If you have spare cash I would do as Lopez done. Run it at race pace(with a taper week) and drop out at 20. If you think you might not dont do it. Do everything you would do on race day re nutrition and give it a trail run. You might make mistakes that you could recify in Dublin. My first marathon I gained 40 secionds in first 2 miles. Big mistake. Learned the next time.

ger664

Running LSR at race pace is never going to be good prep for a marathon especially if its close.

Elite runners have completely different training schedules so copying what they do is asking for trouble.

Run the race in Athlone at LSR if you so wish but if you race it IMO there is not enough time for your body to recover and prepare for Dublin

menoscemo

I have been internetless for several days now so Thanks again for the replies.

Aimman wrote: »

I was going to make the controversial post about going for Longford as an LSR for Dublin, but in reflection, if you hit the wall again in Longford because you haven't built up to it properly in the P&D training, then psychologically, it might be on your mind coming up to Dublin and feck up your confidence on the day.

LOL I felt certain you would reccomend doing it
You're right, If I hit the wall in Longford again it would completely shatter the confidence and I would doubtless pull out of Dublin, whereas if I managed to complete it strongly (even at LSR Pace) It would up my confidence immensley.

Aimman wrote: »

Why do you think you crashed at 19M? was it lack of gels/water or not enough distance covered in training? I reckon once you know what was the root cause, you'll be able for it in October.

I am sure I crashed in Dublin last year for a combination of the things you mentioned above. Lack of mileage due to being a beginner, dehydration (missing about 3 waterstops in a row) and a dodgy stomach meant I couldn't hold down gels or Jelly babies.

Aimman wrote: »

You could look at running Longford Half at race pace, if you are looking for some sort of tune up, aim for just below 1:50.

I think I'll give it a miss so. Doing a 1:50 or a 1:45 (since I am aiming for 3:30 ) half would mean nothing to me, I regualrly do that in training, and besides I Ran 1:37 in Enniscorthy, so If I entred the half I would be out to better that!!

RacoonQueen

I was going to suggest you race the half in Longford. 3 extra recovery weeks on the Dublin half and you can always do 3 miles warm up and 4 miles cool down to get up to 20.

Pisco Sour

Not that this concerns too many of us here, but I recall John Treacy making the statement last December at that "Irish Runner Magazine - A Night of Champions Q&A Night" when asked what sort of training he did for the LA Olympic Marathon in 1994, "I was never a high mileage person at all, I would do long runs of 29 miles in preparation for it" :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

Oisin11178

menoscemo wrote: »

HI all, just looking for advice on the following.
I am considering running the longford marathon as training for the DCM. Basically I have only ran one marathon before, DCM2009, where i completely hit the wall and bonked after 19 miles. I was heading for a 4hr finish but ended up finishing in 4hr 15.
Anyway My training has much improved this year and my PB's have dropped dramatically (5k from 22 to 20 minutes, Hm from 108 to 97 minutes etc). So I am considering dropping one of the P&D prescribed 20 mile LSR's to do the Longford marathon instead. The idea would be to do it at a steady pace (9min/mile) and finish under 4 hrs. I have been following the P&D 55 mpw plan aiming for a 3:30 DCM (8min/mile).
I am thinking that running he full 26.2 miles will boost my confidence that I'll be able to last the disatnce in a marathon while still being a beneficial trainnng run. I am still a little worried that I won't last the distance but hope I can be disciplined to run this race at a training pace.
Basically I am wondering, is this a good idea?

Ive done it in prep for my 3 fastest marathons. Its not for everyone but i found it excellent preperation for goal marathons. Lets face it lots of the lads on here telling you not to do it have gone over 20 to maybe even 23,24 in preperation for matahons. Its a personal thing mate and if you decide to do it ill more than likely be running 4 hours on the day if you want some company.

911sc

No pb running Longford and DCM. There are more than 2 months apart!

brutes1

Dont think theres any harm in it, from my experience of both good and disasters in marathons, best way to train for marathon distance is to get used to the distance, and to running at marathon pace,
Why not run first half easy, pick it up to pace for middle section and wind down last 3/4 miles, no better specific marathon training

Didnt do the winner of both Longford and Dublin any harm last yr, think he was faster second time around too:D

xebec

brutes1 wrote: »

Didnt do the winner of both Longford and Dublin any harm last yr, think he was faster second time around too:D

Ciobanu? He ran an ultra during the Bogtrotters a few weeks ago too but Krusty still didn't manage to beat him But I don't think us mere mortals should be comparing our training to a 2:2X marathoner...

Krusty_Clown

xebec wrote: »

Ciobanu? He ran an ultra during the Bogtrotters a few weeks ago too but Krusty still didn't manage to beat him

That's not fair! I reckon I ran further than he did.