Cold bridging - what cold bridging?

muffler

Took this earlier this evening

Dabzarch

That's one for the books!:eek:

I wonder were they scratching their heads over the DPC!?

Out of curiosity was there to be finish stone to the external leaf? I have often seen this kinda thing happen. (although never like that!)

muffler

Yeah, there's a stone finish to it - or will be I should say

sinnerboy

Robust detailing circa 1972 :D

DOCARCH

Been there!!!

Quazzie

I like the way you got the roll of DPC left abandoned on the floor as if to say "whats this doing here?"

Poor Uncle Tom

Yeah, I bet he moved it into frame before taking the picture....:D

Jusk shockin' I see they are sparing in the use of wall ties as well.

clint_eastman

fine job, don't see any problem with that boss

this is why I've found every single detail on my house needs to be checked, why do guys reckon they can get away with this type of stuff

braftery

because they have done for years .. and years ... and years !

Builders like this are all graduates from the school of ...

An uneducated client is an easy client ...

Buy yourself good Laser level and snag from the day the diggers arrive !!

Information Seeker

This pic gave me a bit of a laugh.

There needs to be real building control in this country now.Nowwwwww......

Viking House

Was this just a site you were passing or have you some involvement?

saltandpepper10

i know this would not be ideal but maybe he/she intends cutting fully through with a con saw and retro fitting dpc.as a side issue it amazes me how a client spends time money etc soursing cavity insulation and then a bricky makes a dogs dinner of installing it,always amuses me

Quazzie

saltandpepper10 wrote: »

i know this would not be ideal but maybe he/she intends cutting fully through with a con saw and retro fitting dpc.as a side issue it amazes me how a client spends time money etc soursing cavity insulation and then a bricky makes a dogs dinner of installing it,always amuses me

Structurally that wouldn't be sound though as you'd have lots of 100x100 parts of blocks on the outside leaf.

muffler

Viking House wrote: »

Was this just a site you were passing or have you some involvement?

I'm supervising the construction. Its a direct labour job and Im meeting up with the client next week.

DOCARCH

I'm supervising the construction.
inspecting ^

Viking House

muffler wrote: »

I'm supervising the construction. Its a direct labour job and Im meeting up with the client next week.

This doesn't attempt to come close to 2008 building regs with the cold bridging around the windows and no foam glass block or whatever under the inner wall. Didn't you discuss these issues with the client?
Is the floor getting an insulated screed and are the walls being drylined?

muffler

Viking House wrote: »

This doesn't attempt to come close to 2008 building regs with the cold bridging around the windows and no foam glass block or whatever under the inner wall. Didn't you discuss these issues with the client?
Is the floor getting an insulated screed and are the walls being drylined?

Thanks for that VH but I fail to see why you found the need to turn a light hearted topic into something serious and then drag it off topic.

Try not to get too exited as this thread is not about me

ECO_Mental

Muff you are right,

I hate it when you post some thing looking for advice and then you get shouted down by some one who thinks they know it all.

A lot of people get intimated by this.

There are people who are selling their wares on here and fair play to them giving good and fair advice, but there are others who like belittling other people and pretending they know it all. Drives me mad

EM

Viking House

Most people in this thread are laughing at the builder! I've been that soldier and its not funny so I'm wondering how this could have been prevented.

I apologise if I've intimidated anybody, I have a lot of experience and am here to help.

Quazzie

It has been prevented. Regular inspections by the supervising technician (Muffler) meant that it was caught before it went too far. Just.

Where it should've been caught was when this 'blocklayer' was doing his apprenticeship. This is really where the problem begins. Lack of adequate training and education throughout the industry instead of relying on the supervising technician spotting it and having to pull the builder up on it when its too late.

Viking House

Well there are no QuinnLite blocks, Foam Glass blocks or other to cut out the wall/floor Cold Bridge and the cavity is bridged around the windows, so unless there are some other solutions, hasn't it gone too far?

Quazzie

Viking House wrote: »

Well there are no QuinnLite blocks, Foam Glass blocks or other to cut out the wall/floor Cold Bridge

Not every house is specced to such a high level. Although its good practice its not quiet common practice just yet.

Viking House wrote: »

and the cavity is bridged around the windows, so unless there are some other solutions, hasn't it gone too far?

I am assuming here but I assumed that Muffler halted production and the problem would be rectified by removing the blocks going across and relaying them.

Viking House

Quazzie wrote: »

I am assuming here but I assumed that Muffler halted production and the problem would be rectified by removing the blocks going across and relaying them.

Which is too late isn't it? But I agree with you that the blocklayer should have known better.
To comply with 2008 building regs we need to reduce the wall/floor Cold Bridge, this is average spec not high spec!

Quazzie

As long as it can be rectified I wouldn't class it as too late. If the wall plate was on before the supervising technician inspected the contruction then I'd class that as too late. Whereas in this case they lose maybe half a day and a dozen or so blocks at most per window fixing it. All too often supervising technicians inspect builds at long intervals, and then that leaves it too late to catch the problem. Muffler was on site doing a regular inspection and spotted this. Whilst it was posted up here as a 'joke' it does highlight the fact that if he wasn't as observant or wasn't as regular with his inspections then this might have done unnoticed, and thats where the real worry is.

Viking House

The more I look at it the more I feel it should be knocked and started again.
The wall at the back is nearly 1.5m high, how would you get insulation into it tight up against the inner wall, I don't see a dpc under it either.
There is no Thermal Bridge block at the base of the inner wall, how can this be rectifyied?
Knocking out the cavity closing blocks might destabilise the wall.
Then there is the question of wall ties!

I apologise for getting serious about something that was meant to be a joke but this is somebody's house and a builders livelyhood we are talking about.

Quazzie

Viking House wrote: »

The more I look at it the more I feel it should be knocked and started again.

I can't see that happening.

Viking House wrote: »

The wall at the back is nearly 1.5m high, how would you get insulation into it tight up against the inner wall,

I would've thought they were going pumped bead

Viking House wrote: »

I don't see a dpc under it either.

I can see a DPC under the one on the left so can only assume it goes around the corner too.

Viking House wrote: »

There is no Thermal Bridge block at the base of the inner wall, how can this be rectifyied?

Unfortuunately that can't be rectified.

Viking House wrote: »

Knocking out the cavity closing blocks might destabilise the wall.

Quiet possibly but it shouldn't with adequate wall ties

Viking House wrote: »

Then there is the question of wall ties!

I (again) assume that the wall ties are one row down from the top and therefore there but just not visible in the photo. Either way if I can assume all this I'm pretty sure a professional like Muffler has actually checked them and not just assumed.

Viking House wrote: »

I apologise for getting serious about something that was meant to be a joke but this is somebody's house and a builders livelyhood we are talking about.

I appreciate that but I think that is the 'joke'. It's laughable that builders like this still exist in the country at this stage. A fine product of the Celtic Tiger when any jackass could walk on a site and call himeself a tradesman.

Ask yourself the question have ya ever heard of anyone being asked to show proof they are qualified at their profession?

DOCARCH

My biggest worry would be what has that builder/block layer done before. Presuming this was not the first job he has ever done, how many other houses has he built with this detail!!! :eek:

I found that exact same detail on a job I was involved in and the builder was really puzzled when I told him this was incorrect - he simply could not understand why, and thats the way he always did it. This was the same builder who also said to me, f**k the building regulations!

There's a huge debate ongoing about the registration of architects at the moment, I really think this is somewhat barking up the wrong tree! I honestly believe all builders should have some sort of formal qualification.

Having a UK style of buildings control where there are manditory inspections at key stages of the build would soon put a stop to this type construction.

bold_defender

Proper building control would be a great idea. Improving standards while also providing more jobs in the construction industry.

sas

DOCARCH wrote: »

I found that exact same detail on a job I was involved in and the builder was really puzzled when I told him this was incorrect - he simply could not understand why, and thats the way he always did it. This was the same builder who also said to me, f**k the building regulations!

Sounds like an amazing chap to have to work with. Doesn't actually know he's wrong and actively doesn't care.

BornToBe?

Excuse my ignorance here, but could someone explain whats wrong here in this pic, I'm not a builder etc. but I'm doing my research as I will be building myself (via contractors) as oppessed to buying a semi in the suburbs. All I can see is the block is wider than the wall and block supporting it is a thinner block.
I know its a joke to those in the know, but can someone give a brief explanation of the prob, why its a prob, and how it should be done, so I can watch out for these things in future.
Thanks

Quazzie

BornToBe? wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance here, but could someone explain whats wrong here in this pic, I'm not a builder etc. but I'm doing my research as I will be building myself (via contractors) as oppessed to buying a semi in the suburbs. All I can see is the block is wider than the wall and block supporting it is a thinner block.
I know its a joke to those in the know, but can someone give a brief explanation of the prob, why its a prob, and how it should be done, so I can watch out for these things in future.
Thanks

Look at page 3 of this.

And thats just the basic problem. There should also be insulation between the outside leaf and the inner leaf to prevent cold bridging

imitation

Quazzie wrote: »

Where it should've been caught was when this 'blocklayer' was doing his apprenticeship. This is really where the problem begins. Lack of adequate training and education throughout the industry instead of relying on the supervising technician spotting it and having to pull the builder up on it when its too late.

Trick there is he may have done his apprenticeship 20-30 years ago, back when a cold bridge was something you'd find over a river in siberia.

I reckon an even bigger problem is attitudes towards change, I've heard some layers saying they think its nonsense doing the proper details(they still do it however ). My experience with building is that alot people involved (tradesmen, architects, the clients themselves) have strong opinions on how things should be done, and many of them are pretty stubborn.

sas

BornToBe? wrote: »

Excuse my ignorance here, but could someone explain whats wrong here in this pic, I'm not a builder etc. but I'm doing my research as I will be building myself (via contractors) as oppessed to buying a semi in the suburbs. All I can see is the block is wider than the wall and block supporting it is a thinner block.
I know its a joke to those in the know, but can someone give a brief explanation of the prob, why its a prob, and how it should be done, so I can watch out for these things in future.
Thanks

Get yourself a copy of this.
http://www.homebond.ie/house_building_manual.html

It's about 60 Euro but very well worth it.

I would recommend that you ask whatever questions you want on this forum. You will find people to be very supportive.