Transferring from Level 7 to Level 8 - Fees

dave oc

Hi,

Have a bit of a strange question, and just wondering if anyone else can help me out. Heres my situation: I have just finished my 3rd year in Architectural Technology in DIT which is a level 7 course. I decided half way during 3rd year I wanted to change course and do Enterprise Computing in DCU which is a Level 8.

I contacted DCU in late March/ early April regarding free fees and would I be eligible as I had heard/ understood that once I hadnt attended a level 8 course before I could get free fees. Having phoned DCU I was getting different answers depending who I spoke to, so I decided to go up in person to the registry with my mam. I explained the situation to the woman at the desk, she took to time consult with a colleague (also about how I could apply but thats a side issue) and then phoned the finance department I think and we were told as I thought 'if I havent attended a Level 8 I would be eligible for free fees'. Great I thought and applied and let the matter go.

So I got an offer for my course last week (transfer student) and was delighted. Went up to DCU to submit my acceptance letter and an accompanying letter used to determine if I apply for free fees. I went to the finance office to hand in the fees letter and was told I would have to play full fees and the woman wouldnt even accept the letter. Appartantly the HEA (who essentially pay the course fees) are not covering students in my situation? After being told I would be in April??

Basically what Im looking to find out if anyone in previous years has done what Ive explained, as in come from a level 7 in one course and changed to a different level 8 course and have their fees paid (not registartion obviously)?? I am going to pursue the matter further with DCU and the HEA but would like to know if there is a precident for the type of case!

Cheers!

(I wasnt sure whether to post here or the fees thread but Im hoping to get as many DCU specific responses as possible. Mods move if required)

donegal11

If you finished you course I couldn't see a problem with free fees as you are progressing. I would try to get in contact with a local representative such as a TD and explain your situation and hopefully they can try to help you out. this is what it says on student finance:

where students who already hold a Higher Certificate/National Certificate or an Ordinary Bachelor Degree/National Diploma are progressing to an Honours Bachelor Degree course without necessarily having received an exemption from the normal duration of the course. In such cases, the student may be deemed eligible for free fees.

XPS

I would concur with Donegal11 - as long as you completed the level 7 with no interruption - or with certified and approved absence or defferal but have achieved all ECTS then moving into first year of a Level 8 will not be a problem - just make sure you have all your letters from your previous HEI - Ive done this, the fees office will be incredibly weary of you for about a month, constantly checking things but once they are satisfied then welcome to the world of our stupidly funded third level education system

dave oc

Thanks for the repsonses. Donegal11, while the quote you posted is true the line the college is taking (well throught the HEA) is that because Im not progressing from an architectue course to an architecture course or something similar i.e. a computers course then they will not provide funding. Even in that quote it is worded as 'may' be eligible for free fees. Because im changing to a completely new course and subject its creating the problem. I was already thinking about contacting a TD, goin to deal with the HEA first and see if it can be reolved there and if not I'll escalate it.

(for what its worth, while Ive just finished the final year of Level 7 architectural technology I didnt pass the year so I dont hold a level 7 degree. DCU have said it does not affect my appllication regarding fees in any way.)

Thanks for the help. Anyone else out there with any other suggestions or experience of this?

XPS

Hmmm - from what you just said there, I think you well be liable for fees I am afraid - and you will find that they are ruthless with this.

There is a five year waiting period for those who do not complete a degree and want to avail of free fees again - DCU may actually be wrong there.

I used to work in higher education - at this level and within the Dept - if your case came across my desk at the moment (without other info) you would be paying fees.

When you say didn't pass - did you fail or drop-out? - this could make a difference.

But again they also do this case-by-case so you might be able to get around it - best of luck either way

donegal11

XPS is right, I believe dcu may be wrong in regard to that you have to do something related to your level 7 degree at level 8, But the fact you failed your level 7 course would hold against you as you don't have a level 7 degree to progress from. Is there any way you could repeat the failed exams this summer to pass them to put you in a stronger position. The fact you spent 3 years as an undergraduate without gaining a qualification would lead me to believe you would be liable for fees(the opposite to what dcu said but I could be wrong) and as XPS says the 5 year rule would apply.

From your opening post you implied that you finished your course(in that you passed your course) which is confusing, and when you say you transfered, what year are you transferring into this may also have an affect on future fees. Anyway good luck.

dave oc

Thanks again for the info lads, didnt mean to confuse ya's its just not a simple case to describe. Basically my last course had year long studio work which is the main part of the overall results so I would have to repeat the year, theres nothing I can do over the summer.

Ive been told that 5 year rule too from the HEA and DCU and its on the various websites. Although it seems the main reason why Im being refused is because Im changing course, and I have been given a copy of an email from the HEA to DCU stating anyone changing to a new course (ie subject aea) would not be eligble, and this is the reason why DCU are saying no.

XPS - I stayed in my last course and sat all the exams so I didnt drop out just at the end of the year. There are still some outstanding subjects to pass but as I said above the main module 'studio projects' cant be repeated over the summer so either way I cant pass the year unless I repeat the whole year. How would it affect my case?

Thanks lads, the help is really appreciated as my heads wrecked with this!

cyberpear

Dave, apols if this is already stated, but are you proposing to enter Year 1 of the new Level 8 course or to go into a later year on account of having completed part or all of the Level 7 course?

dave oc

Year 1 of a new level 8 course (Enterprise Computing, DCU), having failed my final year in a level 7 (Architectural Technology, DIT).

XPS

Okay I think I now know where DCU / HEA are coming from....

They are categorising you as a transfer student - as you are technically still in a degree from their point of view (good luck in getting them to change their minds on this) -

I am not sure you have a case to argue I am afraid - they will see you as a failed investment - I know that is harsh but I know that that this is their line - you cannot transfer within two completely different disciplines (they aren't even entertaining this idea by the sounds of things) so they are looking at your attainment (and the lack thereof) and are ruling that you must pay fees.

I am not sure if there are any other avenues open to you besides completing the year again and applying to DCU for next year.

fcleere

sorry if i'm hijacking the thread here, but......
i completed a level 7 degree (in DIT) and to unemployment, i am going back to college to start a level 8 degree (in DCU) in a different subject.
i was told back in february/march that i'd be eligible for free fees as i was persuing a higher degree.
but i recieved an email saying that because i was doing a different subject i was not entitled to free fees!
can anyone clarify this?or have any knowledge on the topic??
it would be greatly appreciated

candysapple

who did you receive an email from?
it doesn't matter if it's a different subject as long as you move from level 7 to level 8

fcleere

candysapple wrote: »

who did you receive an email from?
it doesn't matter if it's a different subject as long as you move from level 7 to level 8

i emailed the fees officer but got a reply from a lady in the faculty of engineering. i don't really want to name names.........
.
.
.
.
http://www.dcu.ie/finance/fees/index.shtml

dave oc

Sounds like your in the same situation as me. As Ive said above I was told (by the registry) in April I would qualify for free fees as I am coming from a level 7, now Im being told different. The finance office are sure about it, and have given a me copy of an email to them from the HEA saying students coming from level 7 to level 8 and changing courses (ie a completely different subject area) are liable for full fees. Im still trying to find a way around this, or even get clarification so let me know if you get sorted.

candysapple

everyone gets 4 years free initially and as you have used some/all of these on another course you are liable for fees for the course but as you are progressing between levels you are allowed to apply under the higher education grant scheme. Whereas someone who has a level 8 course completed already wouldn't have this opportunity. Once you satisfy the means test for the higher education grant scheme, some or all of your fees will be paid.

The college has no input to this only your county council does. As you apply to them for free fees. Since you haven't heard from the fees office directly (have you tried going into them?), I'd contact the dept of education and check what they are saying. Also your county council about the maintenance grant.

There are people on my course who have changed from science to humanities and received free fees, can't see why the subject would matter.

fcleere

candysapple wrote: »

everyone gets 4 years free initially and as you have used some/all of these on another course you are liable for fees for the course but as you are progressing between levels you are allowed to apply under the higher education grant scheme. Whereas someone who has a level 8 course completed already wouldn't have this opportunity. Once you satisfy the means test for the higher education grant scheme, some or all of your fees will be paid.

The college has no input to this only your county council does. As you apply to them for free fees. Since you haven't heard from the fees office directly (have you tried going into them?), I'd contact the dept of education and check what they are saying. Also your county council about the maintenance grant.

There are people on my course who have changed from science to humanities and received free fees, can't see why the subject would matter.

well thats some clarification anyway! i'll be submitting the maintenance grant form tomorrow so hopefully i'll be eligible for some kind of assistance with the fees.

XPS

candysapple wrote: »

everyone gets 4 years free initially and as you have used some/all of these on another course you are liable for fees for the course but as you are progressing between levels you are allowed to apply under the higher education grant scheme. Whereas someone who has a level 8 course completed already wouldn't have this opportunity. Once you satisfy the means test for the higher education grant scheme, some or all of your fees will be paid.

The college has no input to this only your county council does. As you apply to them for free fees. Since you haven't heard from the fees office directly (have you tried going into them?), I'd contact the dept of education and check what they are saying. Also your county council about the maintenance grant.

There are people on my course who have changed from science to humanities and received free fees, can't see why the subject would matter.

Sorry there are a number of inaccuracies that need to be clarified in this post:

1. The Free Fees Initiative is NOT administered by the local councils. Do NOT contact them - seriously - it could delay any maintenance grant application.

2. You DO NOT get four free years - the Free Fees initiative is based on the award you seek or achieve based on the national framework of qualifications - you are entitled to a chance to complete up to a level 8 degree - not the amount of years you do in college

3. Free fees are awarded by the DES and HEA but are assessed by the HEI you attend - appeals may go to the DES. They are paid via the HEA through the State Grant.

DO NOT mention this to your local authority or your maintenance grant application will be shelved until you provide proof that you do not have to pay fees. If you have to pay fees you must disclose this to your local authority.

Go to a citizens information centre - pronto - also I can tell you now that there is nobody in the DES that can help you at the moment until next week - several of them will be on holidays prior to CAO release.

candysapple

As I understand it this person has already been told by the HEI that they do not qualify for free fees, they should apply for fees to be paid through the Higher Education Grant scheme

http://www.educationireland.ie/how-to-apply/free-fees-programme.html

I suggested they contact the the fees office in the college to confirm they where ineligible, and the dept of education to confirm the reasons for this.

As they have already been offered a place and have been told by the college to pay fees who else should they contact (other than the college and the dept) to find out if they have to pay fees?

SuperTyper

Sorry to hijack your thread but in relation to completing/not completing an undergraduate course, does this also relate to part time courses (ie if you attended an evening degree course but didnt complete due to illlness). Would this affect your chances of not being eligible for free fees?

XPS

candysapple wrote: »

As I understand it this person has already been told by the HEI that they do not qualify for free fees, they should apply for fees to be paid through the Higher Education Grant scheme

http://www.educationireland.ie/how-to-apply/free-fees-programme.html

I suggested they contact the the fees office in the college to confirm they where ineligible, and the dept of education to confirm the reasons for this.

As they have already been offered a place and have been told by the college to pay fees who else should they contact (other than the college and the dept) to find out if they have to pay fees?

It is doubtful the person will qualify for this and it's a rare assistance but no harm in asking, most councils do not offer it.

Also I suggest they contact their local CIC as I said previously

XPS

Right I've done some checking into this, and:

Section 4 states:

Tuition fees will not be paid in respect of:
- students pursuing a second undergraduate course.
- students who already hold a postgraduate qualification

Notwithstanding this condition and subject to compliance with the other conditions of the Free Fees initiative, students who already hold a Level 6 qualification (Higher Certificate or National Certificate) or a Level 7 qualification (Ordinary Bachelor Degree or National Diploma) and are progressing to a Level 8 (Honours Bachelor Degree) course without necessarily having received an exemption from the normal duration of the course may be deemed eligible for free fees. BUT if you FAIL or do DO NOT complete a year you most likely will NOT be eligible for free fees for a period of five years.

Ebay Affiliate

Does anyone know if you have to pay fees to go from a level 8 to 7 course?

XPS

Ebay Affiliate wrote: »

Does anyone know if you have to pay fees to go from a level 8 to 7 course?

Most likely for part-fees for the years you completed in the Level 8 - again depends on the circumstances.

Ebay Affiliate

I did first year in a level 8 course but did not like it.I failed 1 exam and am wondering if I drop to level 7 course will I have to pay fees for first year?

XPS

Ebay Affiliate wrote: »

I did first year in a level 8 course but did not like it.I failed 1 exam and am wondering if I drop to level 7 course will I have to pay fees for first year?

Most likely - contact the relevant university - which I assume is DCU, check to see if there are any modules you can get exemptions from, you will also have to pay the registration fee and the levy if its DCU and be advised if you were previously were in receipt of a grant you may not be eligible for the grant for one year.

XPS

okay - just got a confirmation on this.

You are only allowed take advantage of a level 8 if you are using a ladder method of progression. If you fail or leave a course you do not qualify.

dave oc

Ok so from what ive posted above are you saying that if I had passed my final year my fees would be paid?

XPS

Dave6195 wrote: »

Ok so from what ive posted above are you saying that if I had passed my final year my fees would be paid?

Nope. What I am saying is that the regulation about progression only refers to progression within a laddered programme structure which we used to call (prior to the framework) cert-diploma-degree. This all changed when we realised all of Europe's degrees were ass-paper compared to ours, we scrapped the cert, introduced the higher cert, done away with the diploma and replaced it with the ordinary degree etc.

There used to be laddered programmes - most prevalent in the IoT sector - where you could actually obtain three qualifications. The regulation requires that you are participating in this process, which you are not, therefore I would believe you will have to pay fees, as you are entering a completely different area, that is not a laddered programme - nor where you ever in a laddered programme (I assume).

So in other words if your first degree was an ord. degree in paper airplane building and you finished your final year of that ordinary degree and there was an 'add-on' year to bring it to a higher degree in paper airplane building that additional year would be free, not a whole new level 8 degree, spanning four years.

jmc1990

xps first time poster so prob getting this wrong, from what iv read you seem to be the person to ask, started collage in 2008 level 6 in construction studies 2 years then did an add on health and safety level 7 which i sucessfully completed in may and applied and got construction mgt level 8 starting in the 3rd year as i was exempt from year 1 and 2 should i b eligible to get the grant this year i got it the last 3 years