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Prop 8 in US deemed unconstitutional

  • 04-08-2010 10:31pm
    #1
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭


    Link to the story

    So, looks like it's not all over in the States... YAY!
    "Proposition 8 fails to advance any rational basis in singling out gay men and lesbians for denial of a marriage license," Walker wrote in his decision. "Indeed, the evidence shows Proposition 8 does nothing more than enshrine in the California Constitution the notion that opposite-sex couples are superior to same-sex couples
    ."


Comments

  • #2
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,214 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It'll be appealed to the US Supreme Court

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #3
    GalwayGuy92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭GalwayGuy92


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    It'll be appealed to the US Supreme Court

    That may be so, but it only takes one pebble to start a rockslide. This could be it. Not probable but we can hope. It at least shows a changing attitude.


  • #4
    scientific1982
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭scientific1982


    Great news.


  • #5
    L.Jenkins
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,242 Mod ✭✭✭✭L.Jenkins


    Finally, real progress. No doubt the bible bashers are going nuts.


  • #6
    Surmonter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Surmonter


    I am still ecstatic about this. Although there will be a long appeal process in the future, this is still a huge win.


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  • #7
    Dr. Baltar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Dr. Baltar


    One can always hope. EWven in places that are "backwards" like America.


  • #8
    rainbow kirby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,928 ✭✭✭✭rainbow kirby


    Rachel Maddow on the overturning of Prop 8 - she can barely hold back the laughter at a few points. :)


  • #9
    Surmonter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Surmonter


    Dr. Baltar wrote: »
    One can always hope. EWven in places that are "backwards" like America.
    Yes, I agree. The country is backwards because of the pure ignorance that is embraced in American society. And no, I am not bashing America. I am saying what I have observed from 17 and a half years of living here.

    There a few cities that are actually progressive in this country. One is San Francisco. This is not because they are very gay friendly (although that certainly does not hurt), however it is because they are the only place in the country that has enough collective intelligence to realize Universal Health Care is a good thing, and they have it in affect.

    New York City is also another progressive city. Not as much as San Francisco, but New York City is progressive for its stance on immigration and civil liberties.

    Besides those two select cities, the country is a breeding ground for complete ignorance. There are just groups of random people spread out throughout the country that are actually not ignorant.
    rainbow kirby wrote: »
    Rachel Maddow on the overturning of Prop 8 - she can barely hold back the laughter at a few points. :)

    Haha I love Rachel Maddow!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFJfz0cTQS8


  • #10
    jamijary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭jamijary


    Does raise an interesting question should the courts overturn the will of the people?


  • #11
    Dr. Baltar
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,252 ✭✭✭Dr. Baltar


    jamijary wrote: »
    Does raise an interesting question should the courts overturn the will of the people?

    It was the will of the people to have Adolf Hitler elected.
    The will of the people is not always a good thing.


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  • #12
    jamijary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭jamijary


    Dr. Baltar wrote: »
    It was the will of the people to have Adolf Hitler elected.
    The will of the people is not always a good thing.

    A majority of germans never voted for Hitler his party got 43% vote in the last free election that brought him to power in a coalition. the following elections under him were shams!

    The real ironic thing about this decision today is that it will go before the supreme court, So too did the Bush/Gore election result they sided with bush according to the law and ignored the will of the people!

    anyway I'm happy with the result today but as a democrat (and I too don't think people are neccessaryily right) but I don't like unelected judges having such power, imagine if gay marriage was passed in California and then taken to court and a judge overuled it?


  • #13
    Surmonter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6 ✭Surmonter


    Not everyone votes, so it's hard to say it's really the will of the people.

    Also, every poll ever taken in California shows a vast majority supposed gay marriage, and the voters only struck it down by 1-3%.

    Appeal filed


  • #14
    Marshy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Marshy


    jamijary wrote: »
    Does raise an interesting question should the courts overturn the will of the people?
    Yeah I'd agree, it is a thorny issue.

    Regardless of whether the will of the people can sometimes be a bad thing, it strikes me as undemocratic and highly questionable that the California vote could just be disregarded.


  • #15
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    Surmonter wrote: »
    Not everyone votes, so it's hard to say it's really the will of the people.
    By not voting you are implying that you don't care, it's essentially a vote for both sides.


  • #16
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,214 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    jamijary wrote: »
    anyway I'm happy with the result today but as a democrat (and I too don't think people are neccessaryily right) but I don't like unelected judges having such power, imagine if gay marriage was passed in California and then taken to court and a judge overuled it?
    Imagine if the Norris case hadn't gone to the ECHR and we had a referendum instead

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #17
    twinQuins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭twinQuins


    jamijary wrote: »
    Does raise an interesting question should the courts overturn the will of the people?

    In cases like this where "the will of the people" denies others their rights it is the duty of the courts to step in and rectify matters.


  • #18
    jamijary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭jamijary


    Morkarleth wrote: »
    In cases like this where "the will of the people" denies others their rights it is the duty of the courts to step in and rectify matters.

    So were the courts right in the bush/gore case?


  • #19
    Marshy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,601 ✭✭✭Marshy


    Morkarleth wrote: »
    In cases like this where "the will of the people" denies others their rights it is the duty of the courts to step in and rectify matters.
    Well many people would question whether same-sex marriage is in fact a right.


  • #20
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    It's both a right and a privilege, same as straight marriage. Why does the gender matter?


  • #21
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,214 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Marshy wrote: »
    Well many people would question whether same-sex marriage is in fact a right.
    why is it not a right?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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  • #22
    cotwold
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 950 ✭✭✭cotwold


    Johnnymcg wrote: »
    why is it not a right?

    I agree with marshy on this. I think it should be a right but theres nothing to say that it is.


  • #23
    Rev Hellfire
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,346 ✭✭✭Rev Hellfire


    Thought you guys might appreciate this :)
    6a00d83451c45669e201348.jpg


  • #24
    CokaColumbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 478 ✭✭CokaColumbo


    As a libertarian, I support gay marriage but it is concerning that 1 judicial vote has been deemed to be greater than 7,000,000 citizen votes in California.

    I also question why, if the gay marriage supporters are willing to disregard the will of the people in California so completely, did they participate in the election to begin with? I mean, why participate in a referendum if you aren't willing to respect the outcome if it doesn't suit you?

    Those who disagree with the judge's ruling will cite the fact that the judge is a homosexual, apparently, as cause to believe that the ruling was prejudiced.


  • #25
    baby and crumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,512 ✭✭✭baby and crumble


    But the point is that the Judge, an expert in judicial and constitutional law, made a decision that the law that had been passed by the referendum was unconstitutional. Nothing to do with morals or the will of the people. Unconstitutional, and therefor incompatible with higher law that governs the country. Same thing would have happened here if Mary McAleese, as President, had felt something in the Civil Partnership Bill was unconstitutional.It's a point of law.


  • #26
    jamijary
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭jamijary


    zoegh wrote: »
    But the point is that the Judge, an expert in judicial and constitutional law, made a decision that the law that had been passed by the referendum was unconstitutional. Nothing to do with morals or the will of the people. Unconstitutional, and therefor incompatible with higher law that governs the country. Same thing would have happened here if Mary McAleese, as President, had felt something in the Civil Partnership Bill was unconstitutional.It's a point of law.

    Wait for the supreme court ruling!! How often has the supreme court overruled decisions of lower courts? Many many times!

    I believe myself that marriage should be out of the state hands! civil partnerships for all if u want to get married go and do it privately publicly religiousily etc! the state should only be concerned with the legalities of a union!

    I fought in 2 divorce referenda on the yes side, I accepted the result of the first 1 and hoped that people had seen the need for divorce by No 2 better than having an unelected judge imposing it on them!

    likewise I support abortion! but I will fight for the right that the people of Ireland decide when and if they want it!


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