What is the proper etiquette for cross training.

MoonDancer

I'm just wondering, is there any kind of etiquette to follow if you are a member of one martial arts club & you wish to cross train in another style of Martial arts? Should I ask permission from my Sensai before trying out another? I do kickboxing & wish to start BJJ.

OLDMAN1

MoonDancer wrote: »

I'm just wondering, is there any kind of etiquette to follow if you are a member of one martial arts club & you wish to cross train in another style of Martial arts? Should I ask permission from my Sensai before trying out another? I do kickboxing & wish to start BJJ.

there is no etiquette and you dont have to ask anybodys permission to train anywere, your instructor doesn't own you, do what you want to do and enjoy it...

Charlie3dan

You don't need permission but I would certainly tell your instructor purely out of courtesy if you plan to do it long term.

Other than that, just make sure you go into the other style with an open mind and wllingness to learn.

corkma

It's not really not any of his business. Tell him, but if he has a problem don't pay too much attention

yomchi

It depends on the relationship you have with your instructor

RearNakedJim

yomchi wrote: »

It depends on the relationship you have with your instructor

Why?

yomchi

Because if he's a nice guy it's common courtesy, he may even recommend a place.

Let's not get confused here between normal human courtesy and the need to seek permission, we all know what happened to Veruca Salt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU7nG3KvZDA

MoonDancer

Thanks for the replies, I have a good relationship with my instructor, so I can't really see a problem.
I have a friend who's kid got kicked out of his kickboxing club because the parent was a member of another kickboxing club. Maybe too harsh, but I can see the problem with clubs that compete against each other.
Seeing as its another Martial Arts altogether would be different I suppose.
I will go to him anyway & let him know

cletus

MoonDancer wrote: »

I'm just wondering, is there any kind of etiquette to follow if you are a member of one martial arts club & you wish to cross train in another style of Martial arts? Should I ask permission from my Sensai before trying out another? I do kickboxing & wish to start BJJ.

I know of at lest one instuctor who refused to allow his students to train anywhere else


On a different note, are kickboxing instructors called Sensai?

MoonDancer

Yeah in class we have to call him Sensai.

cletus

MoonDancer wrote: »

Yeah in class we have to call him Sensai.

Is it a straight kickboxing class, or do ye do karate as well?

MoonDancer

cletus wrote: »

Is it a straight kickboxing class, or do ye do karate as well?

Kickboxing. Why do you ask?

yomchi

The term sensei is a term more common with Japanese traditional arts, like Karate for example.

flynny51

yomchi wrote: »

The term sensei is a term more common with Japanese traditional arts, like Karate for example.

Exactly, it's Japanese for teacher... I have absolutely no idea why he's making ye call him sensei?!

This isn't him is it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ezQWunC714

Barry.Oglesby

When one of my students wants to train somewhere else, they have to follow a strict protocol:

1. The student announces his intention, in writing, to train at another school
2. The student brings a gift- usually in a bottle though some have brought other items such as flowers, vases, cinema vouchers and Argos jewellery- to me. The richness and generosity of this gift directly affects my decision to allow him to break the circle.
3. The student must pass several tests of loyalty to ensure he only speaks good words about me and my school. Some of these involve gargling.
4. The student must wear a school tee shirt at all times in the "cross training" art's school. When asked to change, he must rip this tee shirt off to reveal yet another tee shirt.

This is the way of the loyal warrior,

Yours,
Shidoshi Master Sensei Barry

cletus

I actually know of a guy teaching martial arts who has threatened to throw members of the club out of the organisation for training in different ma's.

He also expects that his students buy him drink when they go out, for example, after a grading, and he is to be referred to as Sir or Instructor *insert name* at all times, not just in the club or at training.

Niall Keane

You should ask your coach. Albeit there is no fighter – coach contract involved it would be courteous to tell your trainer.

He may have something useful to advise upon regarding the other art. E.g. some years ago two of my fighters wanted to get a few nights more practice and cross trained with a boxing coach. They told me, I had no problem, but I advised that he may wish for them to stay either orthodox or south paw and make one side solid, and so not change legs, sound advice in boxing, suicide in a sport with leg kicks. I told them to make sure that they tell him why they were doing this. Sure enough that coach did wonder and asked, he actually dropped down to our gym as he found the method intriguing, and adopted some of our strategies, turning and switching legs with a punch, so it worked out well all around. If the lads hadn’t been up front they’d be getting opposite advice, training and therefore practicing perceived bad habits for each sport, and both me and the boxing coach would probably have ended up exasperated and given up trying to teach them. Hence the old saying “one hundred blades and none of them sharp.”

Fighting is fighting and styles can complement each other, however there are different flavours, like chocolate and curry sauce.

Niall Keane

He also expects that his students buy him drink when they go out, for example, after a grading, and he is to be referred to as Sir or Instructor *insert name* at all times, not just in the club or at training.

That's tame I've met so called Chinese "grandmasters" and "doctors" who I have heard from reliable sources take their young students to islands where everyone strips to their underwear (to prevent the disruption of chi) and learns "tui na" massage on each other, the cute girls gaining knowledge of the "masters touch". What's really worrying is that these guys are "respected" in the "martial arts community".

Some schools really are hard to tell apart from cults?

Doug Cartel

I think one case where an instructor is justified in asking you to either stop cross-training or leave, is if you've bit off more than you can chew and you start missing a lot of classes and the like. If you can't put in the work, then he/she can't really teach you the stuff, so what's the point of taking your money.

That said, what you do outside the class is your own business, if you don't let it negatively affect what goes on in class you'll be grand.

Doug Cartel

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

When one of my students wants to train somewhere else, they have to follow a strict protocol:

1. The student announces his intention, in writing, to train at another school
2. The student brings a gift- usually in a bottle though some have brought other items such as flowers, vases, cinema vouchers and Argos jewellery- to me. The richness and generosity of this gift directly affects my decision to allow him to break the circle.
3. The student must pass several tests of loyalty to ensure he only speaks good words about me and my school. Some of these involve gargling.
4. The student must wear a school tee shirt at all times in the "cross training" art's school. When asked to change, he must rip this tee shirt off to reveal yet another tee shirt.

This is the way of the loyal warrior,

Yours,
Shidoshi Master Sensei Barry

What if a student came looking to moonlight from another school?

corkma

I once went to a club because one of my buddies used to train there. I thought it was a bit culty so didn't go back. My friends an mma fan and when he decided to train for an mma fight he kept it secret from the club. He eventually had sense and left

arybvtcw0eolkf

cletus wrote: »

On a different note, are kickboxing instructors called Sensai?

Some have a Karate background.

For example when I trained in Mugendo (Coolock) it was based (if memory serves me correctly) Wado Ryu, with Wado Kata etc.

OLDMAN1

mugendo has no katas, there was one basic one taught to beginners but they did away with that, anybody that is teaching wado katas and saying its mugendo is making it up as they go along...

arybvtcw0eolkf

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

mugendo has no katas, there was one basic one taught to beginners but they did away with that, anybody that is teaching wado katas and saying its mugendo is making it up as they go along...

I could be wrong on the Wado connection, it was was such a long time ago.

But they had, and still have Kata through all their gradings.

From their website;

Mugendo translated from Japanese means The Unlimited Way. It is a modern fighting system which combines the elements of boxing with powerful kicking techniques and movements associated with many martial arts. Training includes physical fitness, stretching, self-defence, kickboxing, kata, breaking techniques, grappling and weapons.

Irish Mugendo Kickboxing Association.

Anyway the point I was making is that some kickboxing clubs have their students refer to their instructors as 'Sensei'.

corkma

lots of kickboxers come from karate backgrounds. Roy Baker has a background in Wado Ryu. The Cannings had a strong backgroound in Wado Ryu. One of the Canning brothers developed Mugendo. Ian Kingston's West Cork Mugendo club have nights dedicated to traditional training

OLDMAN1

corkma wrote: »

lots of kickboxers come from karate backgrounds. Roy Baker has a background in Wado Ryu. The Cannings had a strong backgroound in Wado Ryu. One of the Canning brothers developed Mugendo. Ian Kingston's West Cork Mugendo club have nights dedicated to traditional training

the 2 founders of mugendo were petar mejic and meji suzuki, george canning and joe joel were there senior students, if the irish nugendo assocation are teaching katas , its not mugendo, i lot of the older(senior )people at the time came from a wado background but those katas are not mugendo, the whole idea of mugendo was to get away from the old ways and take a much more european and scientific approach to training and fighting, when the old mugendo assocation broke up because of political differences some people reverted back to the old wado, but tried to put a modern twist on it and in my opinion end up in no mans land...

Sid_Justice

OLDMAN1 wrote: »

the 2 founders of mugendo were petar mejic and meji suzuki, george canning and joe joel were there senior students, if the irish nugendo assocation are teaching katas , its not mugendo, i lot of the older(senior )people at the time came from a wado background but those katas are not mugendo, the whole idea of mugendo was to get away from the old ways and take a much more european and scientific approach to training and fighting, when the old mugendo assocation broke up because of political differences some people reverted back to the old wado, but tried to put a modern twist on it and in my opinion end up in no mans land...

Hold on, Mugendo is a made up martial art. You saying with any authority what is and isn't Mugendo doesn' wash with me.

Doug Cartel

All martial arts are "made up", and I'm not just saying that to be pedantic. Just because it was recently invented doesn't make it more ill defined.

Barry.Oglesby

Doug Cartel wrote: »

What if a student came looking to moonlight from another school?

This is difficult.

many times
a student may seek a master
to better himself
but he must pay
with his loyalty
with his soul
but mostly
his wallet

Doug Cartel

Fair enough Barry. I thought you might have some Game of Death kind of thing going on where they'd have to fight their way through your minions up to you, but then I remembered you only have one and a half floors at IP, so I guess that wouldn't really work.

OLDMAN1

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Hold on, Mugendo is a made up martial art. You saying with any authority what is and isn't Mugendo doesn' wash with me.

what doesn't wash with you? of course its a modern martial art, it was created in 1982 by the 2 men i mentioned earlier, but just because it was started in the 80's doesn't mean its not a good martial art, considering who created it, wado only started in the 1930's,shotakan around the same time and judo 30 years earlier, how old is TKD,just because something does'nt have a 2 hundred year history, what does that mean. its rubbish!!!

yomchi

TKD is 55 years old

crosstrainer1

MoonDancer wrote: »

I'm just wondering, is there any kind of etiquette to follow if you are a member of one martial arts club & you wish to cross train in another style of Martial arts? Should I ask permission from my Sensai before trying out another? I do kickboxing & wish to start BJJ.

no, all knowledge is self knowledge

Baggio...

My instructor (Lee Morrison) encourages us all to cross train and check out everything. But like Jon said, out of courtesy I'd let him know what the story was.

However, for my earlier Kenpo days this was well frowned upon. And any of the clubs I trained in the instructors would "spit the dummy" if they found out that lads were training in other stuff. Even if they asked for permission beforehand. So a lot of the lads ended up not telling their instructor for fears of club reprisals (in grading, etc).

Virtually any one that comes down to me now, are all training in something else. Which is great, as it always brings a whole new dimension to my own training and the club.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Well good manner's cost nothing more than a few seconds of your time to inform your coach that you want to spread your wings a little, and if the coach is good & secure in what he teaches he/she should have every confidence you'll come back to them.

In Judo people are encouraged to go between clubs (not organisations - political claptrap) and other wrestling/grappling styles.

For instance in Portmarnock Judo Club a few guys are cross training in BJJ, we've a few BJJ blue belts and Ray Stears is a BJJ purple belt. So we're encouraged to go out and some thing back to the club.

Baggio...

Joe Hundreds Muffler wrote: »

Well good manner's cost nothing more than a few seconds of your time to inform your coach that you want to spread your wings a little, and if the coach is good & secure in what he teaches he/she should have every confidence you'll come back to them.

Hit the nail on the head.

Sitric

Makikomi is dead right, manners don't cost anything.
Everyone who's trained judo for a bit has trained in other clubs and it's encouraged. I can understand an instructor wanting to know if someone beginning judo is also doing something else in case someone gets their neck cranked when not expecting it! There was a polish lad who started trained in coolmine for a it, didn't speak a lot of english and had trained somewhere else before, I thought he was working for a choke when suddenly he tried to pull my head off!

Clubs should not be cults, you can train wherever you want, anyone who want's to restrict what you learn to their own point of view is a muppet.

As an aside, I did hear a story about one of the lads who started boxing a few years ago, obviously most of the guys boxing were better than him and he kept sweeping their legs if he was under pressure, couldn't stop himself!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Sitric wrote: »

Clubs should not be cults

And thats a turn of phrase I'll remember, I'll use that one - thank you very much!.